TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
I'll see what I can do...
Let's play: Civ IV!
- Thread starter TheMeInTeam
- Start date
I'll see what I can do...
Even re-watching this I find more things immediately applicable in my games. The idea of DOW immunity is really so much easier to apply after seeing it. (I've done my time in the world of see 1, do 1, teach 1)
I've never been able to pull off a diplo win and never really understood it. Seeing it in action really helped, although I still don't think I will try it anytime soon. Diplo, even though I follow a lot of what people post, is still troublesome for me. Pulling such a thing off on my own requires a different level of understanding that I just don't have yet. Diplo is sorta like an essay test where the rest of the game is more multiple-choice. I'm a damn good standardized multiple-choice tester.
It took me a minute to figure out why it was good that Pacal was suddenly #2 in pop. Then I couldn't stop thinking...what is plan B if things go wrong?
You mentioned in one episode how many players make the mistake of building multiplier buildings instead of just building Wealth as it is needed. (ep13 or ep14 I believe) I'm probably guilty of this but I would like you to elaborate a little on this if you don't mind. In a system where you are running very few or no specialist then multiplier buildings will give returns throughout the game where building wealth seems more like a move to slow the bleeding. Surely at some point those buildings pay more dividends, even if it comes later. I see the point about building wealth in a recovery phase while your revolts are put down but if you meant more by that then I'm a bit lost.
I guess I just tend to overbuild. Just to experiment in a recent game I switched from a no cottages empire (PARCS
) to a no specialist (FEUSS ) system (I love how much more information is expressed in these labels, thanks DaveMCW). While I like the results this really threw a wrench in my gears. In FEUSS, the distinction between a gold city and a science city is simply the buildings you put there since both outputs come from the same source(not counting a shrine obviously). There went the concept of city specialization!! So how do you decide where to put Oxford or Wall Street? Why not put both in the same Bureau-Cap since it is likely to have the highest raw commerce and the mechanics should mean there is no difference between that set-up and splitting them between 2 cities (if both have the same raw commerce). I still never get these things up in running while it still matters anyway so right now this questions is more abstract. I'm sure hammer output matters but I usually have the option to rush-buy WS.
I've never been able to pull off a diplo win and never really understood it. Seeing it in action really helped, although I still don't think I will try it anytime soon. Diplo, even though I follow a lot of what people post, is still troublesome for me. Pulling such a thing off on my own requires a different level of understanding that I just don't have yet. Diplo is sorta like an essay test where the rest of the game is more multiple-choice. I'm a damn good standardized multiple-choice tester.
It took me a minute to figure out why it was good that Pacal was suddenly #2 in pop. Then I couldn't stop thinking...what is plan B if things go wrong?
You mentioned in one episode how many players make the mistake of building multiplier buildings instead of just building Wealth as it is needed. (ep13 or ep14 I believe) I'm probably guilty of this but I would like you to elaborate a little on this if you don't mind. In a system where you are running very few or no specialist then multiplier buildings will give returns throughout the game where building wealth seems more like a move to slow the bleeding. Surely at some point those buildings pay more dividends, even if it comes later. I see the point about building wealth in a recovery phase while your revolts are put down but if you meant more by that then I'm a bit lost.
I guess I just tend to overbuild. Just to experiment in a recent game I switched from a no cottages empire (PARCS
) to a no specialist (FEUSS ) system (I love how much more information is expressed in these labels, thanks DaveMCW). While I like the results this really threw a wrench in my gears. In FEUSS, the distinction between a gold city and a science city is simply the buildings you put there since both outputs come from the same source(not counting a shrine obviously). There went the concept of city specialization!! So how do you decide where to put Oxford or Wall Street? Why not put both in the same Bureau-Cap since it is likely to have the highest raw commerce and the mechanics should mean there is no difference between that set-up and splitting them between 2 cities (if both have the same raw commerce). I still never get these things up in running while it still matters anyway so right now this questions is more abstract. I'm sure hammer output matters but I usually have the option to rush-buy WS.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Gift him or (since both of my allies switched to hating him most) Liz mass media and have that AI build the UN instead. That would put me against liz, same result.
I only build it in hammer cities when I don't want units/wonders/etc. Right now, I want tech. Later, they'll be building units or wonders or whatever. Also, since commerce is poor in hammer cities, the multipliers for things other than hammers aren't nearly as strong as you suggest.
Commerce-based research weakens the need for gold buildings outside
/health, and wall street requirements. WS is ideally a shrine or corp city. If you are thinking about using $$$$ buy to amass an army, of course add in more gold multipliers since they're now your "production" multipliers.thanks for the speedy answers TMIT.
We are on the same page now, I just missed one important fact during your Let's Play.
You were referencing a Production City. Now I follow perfectly and it all makes sense. I'm still not the best at quickly recognizing the different ways to use cities and can't really distinguish how each non-capital city is set up in that game (other than you seem to have a lot of cottages which worked well with US). I heard you briefly identify cities verbally in a few episodes but I haven't quite processed those decisions yet.
I've learned the hard way that my big production cities don't look like production powerhouses at first glance. Usually the Hammer-city sites I identify early are short on food making my I-don't-know-what-exactly-to-do-here cities with a substantial lead in hammer output later. I'm still learning!!
We are on the same page now, I just missed one important fact during your Let's Play.
You were referencing a Production City. Now I follow perfectly and it all makes sense. I'm still not the best at quickly recognizing the different ways to use cities and can't really distinguish how each non-capital city is set up in that game (other than you seem to have a lot of cottages which worked well with US). I heard you briefly identify cities verbally in a few episodes but I haven't quite processed those decisions yet.
I've learned the hard way that my big production cities don't look like production powerhouses at first glance. Usually the Hammer-city sites I identify early are short on food making my I-don't-know-what-exactly-to-do-here cities with a substantial lead in hammer output later. I'm still learning!!
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
One of the things to note is that other than obvious hill areas, you'll find cities that can be used for anything - flatland sites with enough food to work all their tiles. To an extent, city specialization is based on need/strategy, not just the tiles themselves, but that's a dynamic that I'm afraid I can't easily quantify for you. If I want more military more cities I go toward hammers, for tech more go towards cottages or specialists. But, of course how good the city might be for each purpose is considered.
It's kind of like a sports draft - do you take the player who fills the position of need the most, or do you take the very best player available? It depends on how much you need one position, and the disparity between the two players.
It's kind of like a sports draft - do you take the player who fills the position of need the most, or do you take the very best player available? It depends on how much you need one position, and the disparity between the two players.
Tempesta13
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
- Messages
- 353
Any word on another one of these yet? LHC should be posted this weekend i think, and MS XI should be friday - not sure what leaders are going to be used. Keep us posted - looking forward to it, especially if you're upping it to emperor.
Ometjabbe
Chieftain
I'm interested nonetheless. I learned a great deal from your clear explanations and it made me want to play but also keep watching. Keep up the good work! I'm looking forward to more of these!
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Well, I'll probably do the LHC @ emperor, but I'm out of my house for a bit so I might have to delay it until this weekend or so.
Negator_UK
King
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 758
Just watched the whole LPC4 sequence last night, very good - can't figure out if I should watch the next series or start a new game !!!
Some game questions:-
1. How do you know who you are "safe at pleased/friendly" with.
2. At the end of the game you started to rack up cash - were you going to gift it to the AI to help them rush UN ?
3. You explain your strategy very well, but you don't really go into what you would have done if things were different (like if Alex had copper). This would be impossible of course, so there's only one thing for it - you'll need to do more series to cover other strats/win conditions
In particular I'd like to see a big war with the 300+ Marines you like to build....
Some production feedback
1. The picture and sound quality is fine, although I recommend editing out the coughs.
2. The picture quality is too poor to read much of the screen. This is OK, but it would be beneficial if you could "audible" when you check a screen for a specific item (no use if its a general check though) - maybe draw attention to the item by waving the mouse around it too. I realise its another adjustment to your play, but thats show business
Some game questions:-
1. How do you know who you are "safe at pleased/friendly" with.
2. At the end of the game you started to rack up cash - were you going to gift it to the AI to help them rush UN ?
3. You explain your strategy very well, but you don't really go into what you would have done if things were different (like if Alex had copper). This would be impossible of course, so there's only one thing for it - you'll need to do more series to cover other strats/win conditions
In particular I'd like to see a big war with the 300+ Marines you like to build.... Some production feedback
1. The picture and sound quality is fine, although I recommend editing out the coughs.
2. The picture quality is too poor to read much of the screen. This is OK, but it would be beneficial if you could "audible" when you check a screen for a specific item (no use if its a general check though) - maybe draw attention to the item by waving the mouse around it too. I realise its another adjustment to your play, but thats show business
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Just watched the whole LPC4 sequence last night, very good - can't figure out if I should watch the next series or start a new game !!!
Some game questions:-
1. How do you know who you are "safe at pleased/friendly" with.
2. At the end of the game you started to rack up cash - were you going to gift it to the AI to help them rush UN ?
3. You explain your strategy very well, but you don't really go into what you would have done if things were different (like if Alex had copper). This would be impossible of course, so there's only one thing for it - you'll need to do more series to cover other strats/win conditions
Some production feedback
1. The picture and sound quality is fine, although I recommend editing out the coughs.
2. The picture quality is too poor to read much of the screen. This is OK, but it would be beneficial if you could "audible" when you check a screen for a specific item (no use if its a general check though) - maybe draw attention to the item by waving the mouse around it too. I realise its another adjustment to your play, but thats show business
Well, a couple things since the thread was bumped:
- As I mentioned in other threads, my laptop is down, so while I can use massive virtual memory to wheeze civ by on my desktop, I have to put the Let's Plays on hold for a while
.- In order to bump the picture quality, I started converting the video files into mp4 starting a couple into the 2nd let's play. I think in terms of picture quality I hit a hard limit in terms of what my software/hardware can do after that.
- I improved the sound for the 2nd let's play, still not great
- I'm a newbie editor so I'm not sure how much sound-specific editing I'll be doing. I can try to learn such things over time.
As for your questions:
1. Ori and DanF both have charts on this forum ported to excel that allow you to see the leaderheadxml data. I have a lot (but certainly not all) of this information memorized
!2. In one of the LPs, I actually did cash rush the UN myself since the situation called for it.
3. As you mentioned, I can't cover every contingency. If Alex had copper, it would have been harder. I'd have probably built a lot more chariots before attacking (depending on where it was and how quickly he settled it), then pillaged it ASAP on 1st or 2nd turn of war. In one of the NC games I actually chariot rushed Alex, and I went for shaka in another one when he had impi
. While they kind of suck in such cases they're still 2 move units and man, does that screw the AI up.
Negator_UK
King
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 758
The picture quality is fine as long as you audible what your are reading. Utube is quite a convenient archive/player. Putting them on fileplanet will put some folk off (although downloading whole series at once in a big zip file while I'm out shopping does have a certain appeal ...).
Thanks for the let's play that you already have out there. As a result you have made a less scared player out of me. here are the results:
1- don't have room/land? Make room kill 'em they are the perpetrators anyway
2- you cannot have your cake and eat it too (build a wonder or build an army then steal a wonder)
3- don't be shy, just make friends by giving them things, they won't complain.
4- watch the backstabbers, stab them first.
5- wage war that you would assuredly win. Make sure that you have the advantage, geographically, politically, technologically, logistically, and financially. (this I have yet to learn)
6- religion is there for political and economical advantage. Spread the word, or have your opponent spread it for you, it's cheaper that way.
So now that you made a less shy player out of me, I would like to learn more, I learn by watching and listening, so thank you for what you did, and thank you for what you are about to do.
I understand that for you it is very intuitive to select a city location, for me it is yet to be developed, you see a fat cross and you think AHA! this is a wonderful great people spot, I look at it and think oh my! how am I going to make this work? is it going to be a erm.... cash cow?!!!! Can you play a game where you can comment on that as you go along? and how would you develop the tiles to make it more effective? and what is the timing on it (early on are you looking for a type of specialized city and what is it?)
Can you play a game where you take the war path and show why you logistically, financially, and politically choose to have a conflict with this or that player. So for example have conflicts occur early game (you already did that and I learned a lot from it), then middle game, then late game and detail how many cities are building troops, what civics to choose, what is the political climate and how to nurture it to your advantage. Or maybe as you play a regular game just detail more about the choices you make to wage a war.
Can you play a game where you make a conscious political, financial, or logistical mistake, and spend the next 100 turns fixing it or finding a different alternate outcome to benefit from the mistake? (this is how it feels on my end, I make mistakes and it takes me that long to dig myself out of it, or I just go "expletive" toss it and start over)
In all these, it would be really nice to slow down your playing to 25% of your regular speed? I think it would be sufficiently slower for the people who really want to dissect everything you do, and fast enough for people who are just watching the game cheering every punch you inflict on their most hated AI enemies (I loved your kicking Monty's ass he deserves it).
Your feelings about AI players is very informative as you go along with your commentary (I changed my mind about Izzy), obviously, know thy enemy is something that... erm you know. I bet you play differently with people anticipating their playing styles as you grow to love and hate them (their playing styles I hope not the people?).
In closing, darn good thing you are doing here. Teach me more please, I will keep watching.
1- don't have room/land? Make room kill 'em they are the perpetrators anyway
2- you cannot have your cake and eat it too (build a wonder or build an army then steal a wonder)
3- don't be shy, just make friends by giving them things, they won't complain.
4- watch the backstabbers, stab them first.
5- wage war that you would assuredly win. Make sure that you have the advantage, geographically, politically, technologically, logistically, and financially. (this I have yet to learn)
6- religion is there for political and economical advantage. Spread the word, or have your opponent spread it for you, it's cheaper that way.
So now that you made a less shy player out of me, I would like to learn more, I learn by watching and listening, so thank you for what you did, and thank you for what you are about to do.
I understand that for you it is very intuitive to select a city location, for me it is yet to be developed, you see a fat cross and you think AHA! this is a wonderful great people spot, I look at it and think oh my! how am I going to make this work? is it going to be a erm.... cash cow?!!!! Can you play a game where you can comment on that as you go along? and how would you develop the tiles to make it more effective? and what is the timing on it (early on are you looking for a type of specialized city and what is it?)
Can you play a game where you take the war path and show why you logistically, financially, and politically choose to have a conflict with this or that player. So for example have conflicts occur early game (you already did that and I learned a lot from it), then middle game, then late game and detail how many cities are building troops, what civics to choose, what is the political climate and how to nurture it to your advantage. Or maybe as you play a regular game just detail more about the choices you make to wage a war.
Can you play a game where you make a conscious political, financial, or logistical mistake, and spend the next 100 turns fixing it or finding a different alternate outcome to benefit from the mistake? (this is how it feels on my end, I make mistakes and it takes me that long to dig myself out of it, or I just go "expletive" toss it and start over)
In all these, it would be really nice to slow down your playing to 25% of your regular speed? I think it would be sufficiently slower for the people who really want to dissect everything you do, and fast enough for people who are just watching the game cheering every punch you inflict on their most hated AI enemies (I loved your kicking Monty's ass he deserves it).
Your feelings about AI players is very informative as you go along with your commentary (I changed my mind about Izzy), obviously, know thy enemy is something that... erm you know. I bet you play differently with people anticipating their playing styles as you grow to love and hate them (their playing styles I hope not the people?).
In closing, darn good thing you are doing here. Teach me more please, I will keep watching.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Welcome to the forums . I'm not going to slow down play, because fewer segments tend to lend better to youtube! However, once I get my laptop going again I'll play more games...I'm not perfect so mistakes will occur. I can give reasons for attacks in the future as well.
My targets in the 1st one were self-explanatory - these guys were going to be a thorn in my side, so get rid of them even at great cost. In my 2nd LP I chose my targets because they were isolated politically and (as a convenient side effect) backward.
. I'm not going to slow down play, because fewer segments tend to lend better to youtube! However, once I get my laptop going again I'll play more games...I'm not perfect so mistakes will occur. I can give reasons for attacks in the future as well.My targets in the 1st one were self-explanatory - these guys were going to be a thorn in my side, so get rid of them even at great cost. In my 2nd LP I chose my targets because they were isolated politically and (as a convenient side effect) backward.
About slowing down, I mean if you could slow down 1/4 beat (play at .75 of your regular speed) lingering a smallish pause at the city screen, or at the general map and pointing at the interesting more telling parts of your strategy. It is difficult for a master tennis player to slow down the volley of balls on the court for us beginners and I hit pause so many times just trying to look at what you had there and to notice what had been done.
About wars: I want to see more of how you get yourself into and ultimately finagle out of them (by just "finishing" off your opponent or even deliberately extort cities, money techs or political advantage). So more games and your lovely explaining why (or why not), what and where.
I just want to say again you are concise in what I saw happen, and I would like to see you get yourself out of your difficulties should you play at a higher level. We should be able to not only learn from your successes (you made it look erm... very easy), but also from the difficulties you might face.
Play more, record it and publish it (time permitting), and then I will watch it and just gush all over you the way you gush all over Izzy (I could not gush form the get go, I don't know you well enough yet he he).
Thank you for welcoming me to the forums.
About wars: I want to see more of how you get yourself into and ultimately finagle out of them (by just "finishing" off your opponent or even deliberately extort cities, money techs or political advantage). So more games and your lovely explaining why (or why not), what and where.
I just want to say again you are concise in what I saw happen, and I would like to see you get yourself out of your difficulties should you play at a higher level. We should be able to not only learn from your successes (you made it look erm... very easy), but also from the difficulties you might face.
Play more, record it and publish it (time permitting), and then I will watch it and just gush all over you the way you gush all over Izzy (I could not gush form the get go, I don't know you well enough yet he he).
Thank you for welcoming me to the forums.
FlyinJohnnyL
You need more workers....
I know it's not as good as watching these great Play Now videos, but you can still learn a lot from all of the games posted on here with screenshots and such. I don't know what level you play at, but Noble's Club helped me move up to Monarch, and then the Monarch Students helped me move to emperor (okay I haven't actually won on emperor other than a cheap AP victory, but I've only played a couple of games so far.) You will get a lot of the details you're looking for. Oh and just so you know you can play these at any level you want.
TMIT,
I just wanted to thank you for helping me win my first diplomatic (well, religious) victory ever. I play at Monarch without too much trouble and am used to tromping over the world and winning by domination or conquest - but no one ever seems to like me very much. -)
By watching your series, I learned how to do some serious cultivation of other civs, just enough to vote for me of course, and join them in tromping on our mutual enemies, the heretics! So without even planning for it, I got my first ever religious victory.
I had beelined to Mass Media and gifted it away to 2 backwards civs (Ramses and Cathy), but neither of them would start building the UN (I played on, with the Esp slider turned high, to see what they'd do). I suppose if I'd waited long enough, sooner or later they would have built it ...
Anyway, thanks!
Larry S.
I just wanted to thank you for helping me win my first diplomatic (well, religious) victory ever. I play at Monarch without too much trouble and am used to tromping over the world and winning by domination or conquest - but no one ever seems to like me very much. -)
By watching your series, I learned how to do some serious cultivation of other civs, just enough to vote for me of course, and join them in tromping on our mutual enemies, the heretics! So without even planning for it, I got my first ever religious victory.
I had beelined to Mass Media and gifted it away to 2 backwards civs (Ramses and Cathy), but neither of them would start building the UN (I played on, with the Esp slider turned high, to see what they'd do). I suppose if I'd waited long enough, sooner or later they would have built it ...
Anyway, thanks!
Larry S.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
I'm glad people are finding this useful since it's fun to do...now just to fix my laptop 
.
Welcome to the forums!
.Welcome to the forums!
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
I still think you should have a bong hit in between turns though 
Someone has sigged that as well
Someone has sigged that as well
