Let's Talk About the Civs that WON'T Make It In Despite Popularity

[NA00]

The Mongolian Steppe looks incredibly like the part of the world I live in. It is beautiful though.

 

[klaidonis]

Iceland and Norway can be more or less considered under the "viking" name.

Then Canada and Australia can be considered under the "English" name, can't they? After all, both Canada and Australia have the Queen of the United Kingdom as the formal head of state and Queen Elizabeth II wore the same crown as Queen Victoria (Imperialistic, Financial).

 

[Ahovking]

Vietnam dont you just love Communism............so Communism dose work yeah well lucky Obama is turning the usa into a Socialist-oriented market economy

 

[Danielos]

I would have liked Atlantis for a fun what-if?-civ, but I suppose that is never going to happen in an official game...

 

[Thormodr]

I would have liked Atlantis for a fun what-if?-civ, but I suppose that is never going to happen in an official game...

Civ 2 fantastic worlds rocked. I still laugh every time I think of bat guano as a resource and blue rooms.

Hopefully CiV will come out with an expansion like that again.

 

[kudlaty]

i think that it would be fair to have a Slavs civilization as they represent among others: Bulgarians, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs, Ukrainians, Croats, Poles, Slovaks, Slovenes, Czechs, Belorussians.

a lot of history in those nations, and yet not represented in ANY Civ game!!!

presence of Russia and some cities under HR civ doesn't make it up for it.

 

[King Kalmah]

Maybe they should take out Portugal and Spain to make way for a Czech or Polish nation?

 

[kudlaty]

Maybe they should take out Portugal and Spain to make way for a Czech or Polish nation?

i wouldn't go that far. they are both great nations. i love to play with Portugal and Spain.

 

[phungus420]

Is this some kind of a joke?

Perhaps you should read this book. I quite enjoyed it.

Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford

The Mongols bridged the gap between East and West. The free flow of ideas, technology and trade flourished under the Mongols. It could even be argued convincingly that the Renaissance would not have happened without the Mongol Empire. There was also religious tolerance practiced that was unheard of in the Middle Ages. The Forbidden Palace is a Chinese national treasure and yet it was built under the Mongols.

Ain't a joke, and there is a book out there for everything. Now most likely Europe was a major beneficiary of the Mongolian invasion, and the fact the Enlightenment happened there is arguably because of the devastation the Mongols caused in the most developed parts of the world. The Middle East and China were lightyears ahead of the backwater barbarians in the west at the time the Mongols started razing the major urban centers of the world. Of course who knows, it's hard to really state with certainty that the fact the destruction the mongols caused had a negative impact on human society; who knows what the world would have been like had the Enlightenment occurred in the Middle East, or even if it would have happened or if the Renaissance was destined to occur in Europe. I don't know, but it's a reasonable argument to be made none the less.

 

[phungus420]

Vietnam dont you just love Communism............so Communism dose work yeah well lucky Obama is turning the usa into a Socialist-oriented market economy

I don't think communism is possible outside of small tribal groups; the word as it is used today just seems to mean a command economy, and Vietnam is not a command economy. Granted it was ran as one shortly after the war, but it never would have even been one had the US not foolhardenly backed France for no conceivable reason, forcing Ho to appeal to Russia for support. Keep in mind Ho originally came to the US in order to secure support for Vietnam's independence from France, and was flatly rejected. It's a good thing Vietnam abandoned the command economy aproach though, command economies always fail, the only one I can think of to this day in existence is North Korea. As for Obama, he sure as hell ain't a socialist, the guy isn't even left by any reasonable standards. As someone on the left I've seen absolutely nothing that Obama has delivered, other then pretty words. Hell the "stimulus bills" were nothing more then shareholder bailouts, crafted in the most anti popular traditions, I don't know how paying off Wall Street fat cats with public funds fits into socialism.

 

[Arakhor]

No, Klaidonis, Canada and Australia have Queen Elizabeth II as their head of state. She is separately Queen of the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and a bunch of other island states. If we were really going to add talents to the current Queen, rather than the country, she'd at least be Charismatic, simply because of the enormous global respect she has accrued.

 

[Tusked]

Civ 2 fantastic worlds rocked. I still laugh every time I think of bat guano as a resource and blue rooms.

Hopefully CiV will come out with an expansion like that again.

Bat guano is a resource - there have beens wars fought over guano. Like, recently, in central america. Guano would make an excellent resource in CivV =)

 

[say1988]

I still laugh every time I think of bat guano as a resource

Guano, from bird or bat, has traditionally been a key ingredient in making things go boom. Keeping it from German was a key element of Allied plans in WWI, though the Germans got around it by making extensive use of the Haber process.

 

[Wodan]

Pre-union Poland was strong independent kingdom,one of many in it's times.

One big problem with Poland historically that wrecked the possibility of it being a "great civ" was that political power was nerfed by a lack of primogeniture or a similar system... in fact, partible descent / inheritance had much the same effect as in Charlemagne's empire.

 

[The End Is Nigh]

Saying the US is not a civilization does not make it true. Question for you, which country is older, the United States or Germany? Bonus question, which country has controlled an empire extending across 1000s of kilometers for the longer period of time, Mongolia, or the United States?

This whole United States is not a civilization assertion is simply ludicrous. Ludicrous of course meaning that the point is so flawed and idiotic that it is comical.

You obviously have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about.

civilization 1. an advanced stage or system of social development. 2. those peoples of the world regarded as having this. 3. a people or nation (esp. of the past) regarded as an element of social evolution (ancient civilizations; the Inca civilization). 4. making or becoming civilized.

Guess what? The US does not fall under any of the above categories. And the term civilization has nothing to do with territorial control.

And the nation of China originates from a collection of ancient ethnicities like the Han, does this mean China isn't a civilization? Go look up civilization in a dictionary and get back to me.... Also point to me one single nation/society that does not have ancient roots in some ehtnic tribal groups, such a thing cannot exist, unless you take the creationist beliefs even farther then fundamentalists do and assert that there are some civilizations out there that god just plopped down on earth within the last couple centuries or something...

Clearly, you are confused. The Han were not a civilization! They were the second imperial dynasty of the Chinese civilization!!!

Again with the stupid idea of eliminating the use of proper nations with ethnic groups and claiming them to be better terms to use for civilizations. Why would Firaxis choose to emphasize race in their use of labels for the various civs players can choose? What possible purpose would this server?

Again with the stupid idea of trying to relate civilization to the notion of nation or ethnic groups. Have you ever heard of the "western civilization", the idea accepted by everyone that England, Germany, America, etc and the values and culture these nations have are based on the Greco-Roman civilization? I honestly hope you are not going around telling people about the greatness of the British civilization (rather than the greatness of the British empire which nobody would deny), because they would laugh at you.

The rhetorical argument I posed was that since you can have England in the game (which is based on the Greco-Roman civilization), then why not Canada? The again, do you understand what a rhetorical question is?

Again Vietnam is still better then all the "Canada, Yugoslavia, etc" nations people keep proposing.

Vietnam does actually classify as a civilization and should be included in the game!!! Canada (Greco-Roman) and Yugoslavia (Russian) don't classify as civs. These are nations influenced by other civilizations.



By the way. Next time, try to be a bit more polite in these forums. You may not agree with what other people have to say and you have every right to argue against the ideas expressed here, but that does not give you the right to treat them with contempt ...

P.S. sorry about the tone.

 

[Thormodr]

Guano, from bird or bat, has traditionally been a key ingredient in making things go boom. Keeping it from German was a key element of Allied plans in WWI, though the Germans got around it by making extensive use of the Haber process.

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that guano wasn't a significant resource. It's just something that made me laugh when I pictured bat guano being hauled out on caravans and being sold.
As another poster mentioned I hope we see it in in ciV as a resource.

 

[Thormodr]

Bat guano is a resource - there have beens wars fought over guano. Like, recently, in central america. Guano would make an excellent resource in CivV =)

A war over guano and a war over soccer.
Maybe Guatemala can call their soccer team the Guatemalan Guano kings.

I'd love to see guano and peat as resources in ciV. They didn't listen to me about adding Peat to cIV.

 

[ko3ak]

Let's look closer at the definition above.

civilization
1. an advanced stage or system of social development.
2. those peoples of the world regarded as having this.
3. a people or nation (esp. of the past) regarded as an element of social evolution.

1 & 2 belong together like so:

1. Those peoples of the world regarded as having an advanced stage or system of social development.

This part of the definition is so generalized that it could really apply to any group of humans on the planet. It's also relative, due to the ambiguity involved with the word 'advanced.' It doesn't specify what it is to be 'advanced.' So, a primitive neolithic tribe could under this definition be considered a civilization. If that is the case, than certainly Canada does.

The second part of the definition:

2. A people or nation regarded as an element of social evolution.

In order to be considered as a civilization all one has to do is prove that a nation might be regarded as an element of social evolution. Since virtually every nation contains subtle differences in their social interactions, it could be said that every nation contains an element of social evolution. By adding to, and developing new social norms, every nation can be considered a civilization by this definition.

In conclusion, the idea of what it is to be a civilization is extremely vague and open to interpretation. It is unreasonable to claim that ANY isolated group of humans is NOT a civilization. So, please stop arguing against the inclusion of various groups by saying "they are not a civilization."

Any nation, empire, tribe, etc. can be considered a civilization. Some are more prominent throughout history than others. Some are more influential than others. Those are the types of things that should be debated here.

 

[Wodan]

Any nation, empire, tribe, etc. can be considered a civilization. Some are more prominent throughout history than others. Some are more influential than others. Those are the types of things that should be debated here.

Exactly! Thus, Canada shouldn't be in!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[phungus420]

civilization 1. an advanced stage or system of social development. 2. those peoples of the world regarded as having this. 3. a people or nation (esp. of the past) regarded as an element of social evolution (ancient civilizations; the Inca civilization). 4. making or becoming civilized.

Guess what? The US does not fall under any of the above categories. And the term civilization has nothing to do with territorial control.

The fact that you can claim the United States is not in an advanced stage or system of social development, or having a people or nation only demonstrates you can't be taken seriously. It's impossible to argue with someone who points to the sky and claims it's neon pink, all you can do is gather the person is deluded. There really isn't any logical argument to contest, only thing in your post to see are lunatic ravings.