Liberalism
- Thread starter Shocka
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Ecofarm
Deity
1. The path to liberalism (philosophy, paper, and education) as well as liberalism itself (if you do not have fishing) are lightbulbed by scientists. Philosophy allows pacifism, creating many scientists. If you oracled CoL and go caste system as well, the scientists appear like mad.
2. It is like a second oracle (free tech). Nationalism is pretty expensive to get for free and leads to Democracy and military tradition - fine techs for builders or warmongers.
3. Free religion allows you to benefit from religion while avoiding attitude penalties from the AI.
2. It is like a second oracle (free tech). Nationalism is pretty expensive to get for free and leads to Democracy and military tradition - fine techs for builders or warmongers.
3. Free religion allows you to benefit from religion while avoiding attitude penalties from the AI.
+ free speech increase culture and town output
+ education opens up universities and oxford
= it is the strongest science path
DrewBledsoe
Veteran QB
I took the free tech away a long time ago, it's just too gimmicky. At least the Oracle actually takes some building.Fair enough if you beeline to lib and then actually change to either Free Religion or Free Speech, but 90% of the time, it's just for the free tech, if people are honest.
not in cultural games, at least
DrewBledsoe
Veteran QB
Sure, but then you are actually using the tech. A comparison, most people don't really bother with Feudalism, yet the ai values it ridiculously highly in trades. If Feudalism gave a free tech, then you can absolutely guarantee it would be the subject of 50 different "feudalism slingshot" threads...
That's what I mean.
and you're right
I never bother with feudalism, because it's not a good trade bait : AIs run to it!
OTAKUjbski
TK421
I strive to get Education. It just so happens there's a cheap tech right behind it that gives me too many goodies to ignore.
drkodos
Emperor
I have found that for the very fact that the AI prizes it and Dvine Right so highly makes them both excellent trade bait (especially on large maps with a lot of Civ's where you can double and triple dip your selling/trading quo.)
Stolen Rutters
Deity
Why liberalism?
I think it has to do with the lightbulb path of great scientists pointing straight to it... halfway there you use pacifism to double the great scientist rate, and lighbulb education for the scientific wonder of wonders (Oxford) to help you in the second half of the game, liberalism will then give you two science friendly civics and a real expensive tech for free and it's right there after education. Backfilling techs is quick with all those science boosts in place.
Most seem to take nationalism as the free tech for some reason (or astronomy if you are isolated).
I think it has to do with the lightbulb path of great scientists pointing straight to it... halfway there you use pacifism to double the great scientist rate, and lighbulb education for the scientific wonder of wonders (Oxford) to help you in the second half of the game, liberalism will then give you two science friendly civics and a real expensive tech for free and it's right there after education. Backfilling techs is quick with all those science boosts in place.
Most seem to take nationalism as the free tech for some reason (or astronomy if you are isolated).
Chemtech
Chieftain
I've never considered that the GS's point right at it basically for me its really 2 things:
1) Getting Education and Oxford is usually one of my main goals
2) Getting a free expensive tech (Nat or Astronomy usually for me) means you shave a minimum of 4 turns of research off - assuming you wait till the last possible option to take either of those 2 techs - OR shaving many (15+) off of researching them early.
If I have a large civ (city number wise) and am at peace I will often take Nat only to create teh Taj and start a golden age - usually utilizing the hammer production of my main production city which would usually be producing superfluous units.
If you manage to finish Taj and bulb/finish education shortly thereafter the golden age hammer boost can quickly field the necessary universities for Oxford.
All of this assumes youre not crippling yourself by not having enough of the backfill techs - but I often find myself moving from archers/pike/mace almost directly to rifles/cav skipping most of longbows/knights/muskets whenever possible.
1) Getting Education and Oxford is usually one of my main goals
2) Getting a free expensive tech (Nat or Astronomy usually for me) means you shave a minimum of 4 turns of research off - assuming you wait till the last possible option to take either of those 2 techs - OR shaving many (15+) off of researching them early.
If I have a large civ (city number wise) and am at peace I will often take Nat only to create teh Taj and start a golden age - usually utilizing the hammer production of my main production city which would usually be producing superfluous units.
If you manage to finish Taj and bulb/finish education shortly thereafter the golden age hammer boost can quickly field the necessary universities for Oxford.
All of this assumes youre not crippling yourself by not having enough of the backfill techs - but I often find myself moving from archers/pike/mace almost directly to rifles/cav skipping most of longbows/knights/muskets whenever possible.
rabidveggie
King
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2007
- Messages
- 697
The only reason I shoot for Liberalism is the free tech. It very handy to get a nice free nationalism tech speeding me on the way to military tradition for future land grabbing.
bonafide11
Worker
Haha I never knew you could lightbulb liberalism if you avoid fishing... That's crazy... But that'd be a pretty long time to go without fishing... I'm not one to race for fishing or anything, but I eventually get it, long before liberalism...
But I only go for liberalism for the free tech too, but I don't much a whole lot of priority into it because I am more of a warmonger and there are too many other good military techs to get at that point in the game. So I'll go for liberalism if it's there and nobody has gotten it yet, but I don't neglect my military for it...
Stolen Rutters
Deity
Huh, I never knew that either. Philosophy, paper, and education are enough lightbulbs for me! I want fishing in most of my games. Maybe a landlocked game will let me lightbulb liberalism.
baboon
Warlord
I could never do without fishing. I'm such a roleplayer 
I popped lib once with Freddy. i am pretty sure that I had fishing. Actually certain. Is there other factors involved ECOFARM?
A great Merchant at that stage in the game can net 2000 beakers from the ToA city often. That's a similar number of beakers to the free tech you get from Liberalism.
So I agree with bonafide11 and prioritize military techs, to get guilds/Knights for example, and have a couple of merchants generating GPP somewhere in the empire... if the situation will pay off with a military push at that time.
So I agree with bonafide11 and prioritize military techs, to get guilds/Knights for example, and have a couple of merchants generating GPP somewhere in the empire... if the situation will pay off with a military push at that time.
Ecofarm
Deity
To lightbulb liberalism, you must have iron working and metal casting but not fishing.
You could also have IW and MC and fishing, sailing, compass, optics and astronomy - then he will do liberal.
You could also have IW and MC and fishing, sailing, compass, optics and astronomy - then he will do liberal.
wouldn't it go to scientific method?
edit : you need to avoid machinery, but then you won't have astronomy
here is a list
Writing have it
Mathematics have it
Scientific Method no machinery (=> no printed press)
Physics no machinery (=> no PP => no scientific method)
Education have it
Printing Press no machinery
Fiber Optics no machinery
Computers no machinery
The Wheel have it
Philosophy have it
Chemistry no machinery(=>no engineering)
Fission no machinery
Fusion no machinery
Optics no machinery
Paper have it
Astronomy no machinery(=>no optics)
Biology no machinery
Electricity no machinery
Flight no machinery
Genetics no machinery
Compass have it
Satellites no machinery
Sailing have it
Alphabet have it
Calendar have it
Medicine no machinery
Ecology no machinery
Iron Working have it
Metal Casting have it
Engineering no machinery
Steam Power no machinery
Liberalism tadam
edit 2 : if you avoid machinery, you can have fishing and sailing and calendar, but not be able to lightbulb optics and astronomy.
So you could lightbulb liberalism with no heavy drawbacks.
Dirk1302
Deity
Good post Cabert, i think Jihe hinted to these sort of ideas in his immortal post. It's very important because paper, education can easily be lightbulbed but a lot of lib races get lost because liberalism can take forever without lightbulbing.
If you focus enough you can almost make sure of lib on any level by going caste system,pacifism and putting a lot of scientists to work, this gives up a lot of other good things (war,slavery) and i'm not sure it's always worth it but it's good to know that this is possible.
If you focus enough you can almost make sure of lib on any level by going caste system,pacifism and putting a lot of scientists to work, this gives up a lot of other good things (war,slavery) and i'm not sure it's always worth it but it's good to know that this is possible.
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