connorkimbro
Chieftain
Hello, any other libertarians here? Any other Objectivists here? Just curious. . . 
Libertarians?
- Thread starter connorkimbro
- Start date
Strik
MAD SCIENTIST
What are you talking about, does it mean anything or are you just moving AIR
Is this some kind of philosophy thingie? 
My wife is a libertarian. She's American. Now she lives in England where there is no real organised libertarianism she is out of it completely. And she can't vote here anyway yet.
duke o' york
It don't mean a thing....
Libertarians are a US political party whose major tenet is a return to the "original" American values of freedom and justice for all. They stand very little chance of making it into power in the current political climate but see this as no barrier in their campaign to get back to basic "American" values. They have a website at we believe in it, but skilfully fail to use the term laissez faire to describe our policies because the average voter doesn't know what it means.
Strik
MAD SCIENTIST
So they are just conservative republican voting morons
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Uh, no.
First of all, I'm a very proud Republican, and I don't think liberals are morons - I think they're wrong, but not moronic. That's insulting to me, and you should be ashamed of yourself for having the nerve to think that.
Second, I'm very conservative, and I don't support things like open legislation of marijuana or abortions, or free trade (in cases like North Korea or Cuba). Libertarian doesn't mean conservative, if anything, libertarians are closer to the middle, because they support issues on both sides of the "aisle", they just want less legislation on things.
Then what's an Objectivist? Someone who objects? Sorry cos I am really not very familiar with all these small political parties in the US. I have always thought there are only the Republicans, Democrats and Greens in the USA.
connorkimbro
Chieftain
Stripped of the snide comments, this is sort of close. Although not exactly, as "original" american values weren't all correct either.
Actually, they are currently the strongest third party that there is right now, despite the fact that other parties get more press. They have more candidates at the local and state levels than any other third party, and even have representation at the national level.
Well, it's good to see you're keeping an open mind, and are at least willing to learn about them before you insult them.
Objectivism is a philosophy, not a political party. If you're familiar with Ayn Rand, then you've "heard" of objectivism, even if you may not have heard that term to describe it.
"Objectivism is a philosophy, not a political party. If you're familiar with Ayn Rand, then you've "heard" of objectivism, even if you may not have heard that term to describe it."
No, I have not heard of Ayn Rand. Can you pls describe this objectivism philosophy to me? I'm really curious. Or does it simply mean to be objective in thinking?
No, I have not heard of Ayn Rand. Can you pls describe this objectivism philosophy to me? I'm really curious. Or does it simply mean to be objective in thinking?
duke o' york
It don't mean a thing....
Come on Connor, you're not suggesting that you believe the American Dream are you?
connorkimbro
Chieftain
Briefly, because I have to go to class in a few minutes, i'll explain more fully later though.
Objectivism states that there is an objective reality that we can know, through our ability of reason. It states that man exists as an end, not as a means to an end, in other words, man exists for his own sake, not for the sake of a diety or for the sake of other men, or for anything except himself. Because of this, all men have certain inherent rights, the right to his/her own life, of course, the right to excercise his ability to reason, and the right to the products of his reason. More simply, "life, liberty, and property."
I won't take the time to get into any supporting arguments right now, i just posted the basic idea, in my own words . . chew on it for a while, and argue against me if you like, and i'll come back and defend it more later.
Could you please clarify that question a bit more? What exactly are you asking?
edit: it's gonna take me a bit to get used to these quote tabs, they're different than other boards i post on. . heh
I am spread over a spectrun on political positions, leaning to the rightist poles: About .3 libertarian, .3 conservative, .3 moderate, .1 liberal.
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
I wouldn't call myself libertarian, as little as I'd call myself anything else. But it's probably the hat that fits best though. I'd say that libertarianism is a kind of moderate anarchism.
I don't think laws can solve the problems of modern societies. They're instruments of absolute rulers in the past, like the nation states are. And the really big problem is, that it can never be financed. You may say, there are laws, but if you cannot enforce them with police and courts, you're in trouble. And if expenses rally to these ends, taxes will go up, more people will work harder and be dissatisfied for what they get out of their lives.
As soon as people finds out that governments do NOT have the ressources to back the increasing number of obscure laws, more people will have less respect for authority. That's a big problem for authority, but a good thing for people. Laws and legislation provide a false security. You're better off listening to yourself and taking care of those close to you by yourself. And that also means taking responsibility for what happens around you in the place you live.
But first and foremost, it is about looking after yourself, and being happy and free to do whatever you want, without the inconvenient interference of "authorities" and "laws".
I don't think laws can solve the problems of modern societies. They're instruments of absolute rulers in the past, like the nation states are. And the really big problem is, that it can never be financed. You may say, there are laws, but if you cannot enforce them with police and courts, you're in trouble. And if expenses rally to these ends, taxes will go up, more people will work harder and be dissatisfied for what they get out of their lives.
As soon as people finds out that governments do NOT have the ressources to back the increasing number of obscure laws, more people will have less respect for authority. That's a big problem for authority, but a good thing for people. Laws and legislation provide a false security. You're better off listening to yourself and taking care of those close to you by yourself. And that also means taking responsibility for what happens around you in the place you live.
But first and foremost, it is about looking after yourself, and being happy and free to do whatever you want, without the inconvenient interference of "authorities" and "laws".
joespaniel
Unescorted Settler
I hate when they tell you to "shhhhh!", when you talk too loud behind the book shelves. 
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
You must be referring to librarians, am I right, or am I right? 
"You must be referring to librarians, am I right, or am I right?"
He's just trying to be funny. Or trying to attract notice.
"Objectivism states that there is an objective reality that we can know, through our ability of reason. It states that man exists as an end, not as a means to an end, in other words, man exists for his own sake, not for the sake of a diety or for the sake of other men, or for anything except himself. Because of this, all men have certain inherent rights, the right to his/her own life, of course, the right to excercise his ability to reason, and the right to the products of his reason. More simply, "life, liberty, and property.""
In short, every man (woman) for himself (herself)? I like this philosophy personally. Makes a lot more sense than those "It's the will of God" stuff.
He's just trying to be funny. Or trying to attract notice.
"Objectivism states that there is an objective reality that we can know, through our ability of reason. It states that man exists as an end, not as a means to an end, in other words, man exists for his own sake, not for the sake of a diety or for the sake of other men, or for anything except himself. Because of this, all men have certain inherent rights, the right to his/her own life, of course, the right to excercise his ability to reason, and the right to the products of his reason. More simply, "life, liberty, and property.""
In short, every man (woman) for himself (herself)? I like this philosophy personally. Makes a lot more sense than those "It's the will of God" stuff.
Ashoka
Reluctant Warrior
Well, in *theory* that's how it works.
My dad is a Liberatarian. Supposedly, Liberatarians follow the 'that governs best, which governs least' idea. A welfare state does not actually help people, but in reality makes them dependent on others. Liberals are portrayed as patronizing busy-bodies who only help others as part of their own power trip.
HOWEVER - in the US, in reality, Liberatarians are a mixture of a few honest believers, many anti-government nuts (sometime of the Timothy MCVeigh type) and mostly people who interpret the philosophy as "the government has no buisness interfereing with me when I sh*t on others."
I actually agree with many true Liberatarian ideas, but some things need central control - like public health and safety.
Surprising how many people in the US who were very critical of a centralized federal government have changed their stripes since 9-11!!
Peace -
Ashoka
joespaniel
Unescorted Settler
Unfortunately, it seems that the zenmaster is right.
More government is in our future.
I respect alot of the Libertarian views, however I caution mixing up 'liberties' and 'rights' with convenience. And apathy.
More government is in our future.
I respect alot of the Libertarian views, however I caution mixing up 'liberties' and 'rights' with convenience. And apathy.
Dogberry_Old
****** of the Pack
You nailed it right on the head Asoka ...you are a damn smart guy ! "Objectivism" is the philosophical cover for it. As such it has more rigour than what is actually practised. Ayn Rand's "novels" are amongst the worst pieces of literature that I have ever been subjected to. All the characters are of the "cardboard cut-out" variety, except perhaps the central figure..who represents competence vs. an opposing world.
I like you.. you will go far.
Dog
Similar threads
