Light In The East: Civs Of The Orient(And Beyond)

That's the Tunisia design right?

I like the UA, as it pretty much ensures you should have access to a religion, increasing the strength of the UU.

The only thing I'd question is the UI - for a navally focussed civ it seems like it would always be beneficial to have Cargo ships rather than caravans, the UI alone doesn't offset this in it's current state. Was the limit on placing them adjacent to each other removed?

Regardless, an interesting design for an interesting civ
 
It could be any civilization :p

The limit could be removed easily. It could also be made to include trade routes passing adjacent to it, so you could have the sea trade bonus from it as well.

Another ability that could be added to the UU is that it gives some sort of bonus when it blockades cities.
 
It could be any civilization :p

The limit could be removed easily. It could also be made to include trade routes passing adjacent to it, so you could have the sea trade bonus from it as well.

Another ability that could be added to the UU is that it gives some sort of bonus when it blockades cities.

To be honest, I think that both of these are good ideas - in terms of the UI for the reasons I've mentioned above, and in regards to the UU it helps seeing as Privateers are rarely used to attack and damage cities - moreso to blockade and capture the city - at least in my experience.

The only issue is that it might make the components a little cluttered looking.
 
I don't know. I feel like I've just been seeing that improvement mechanic (give a bonus when a cargo ship/caravan passes by it) a lot recently. Champa, Afghanistan, there's another civ I can't remember, all kind of do it. Maybe it's because I've been following the Battle Royale which uses all those civs in it. Nothing wrong with also using it, I suppose.
 
I gotta be honest and say I don't like that design - its an okay design technically, but it doesn't seem Tunisian whatsoever. Literally nothing about it seems uniquely Tunisian - the UI is North African, sure, but this could easily be Algeria, Libya, Morroco or any one of the dozens of dynasties that controlled the region.

Tunisia has prospered almost entirely because of her dominance of the Mediterranean, her pirates were literally some of the most successful of all time and plagued the Christian powers for, what, 500 years? Barbary corsairs struck Iceland for gods sake! +1 faith from coastal cities?

Also the second part of the UA seems like it would be useless to the point of total irrelevance in most games, since the player usually has an absurdly hard time spreading their religion that much, and you've almost no control over when the pop growth kicks in. I like the effects of the UI, even though as turingmachine points out, its been done before, but it actually works against the rest of the design - this civ should be all about naval trade routes and this design actually penalises you for using them coz you get no benefit from the UI.

I hate to be so harsh but I just feel pretty strongly about Arab history.
 
Like I said, there definitely needs to be some more naval stuff in there. The UA to me is the weakest bit, I actually like the UI, though I'd replace the Caravan stuff with something more interesting personally. The UU is nice though.
 
I gotta be honest and say I don't like that design - its an okay design technically, but it doesn't seem Tunisian whatsoever. Literally nothing about it seems uniquely Tunisian - the UI is North African, sure, but this could easily be Algeria, Libya, Morroco or any one of the dozens of dynasties that controlled the region.

Tunisia has prospered almost entirely because of her dominance of the Mediterranean, her pirates were literally some of the most successful of all time and plagued the Christian powers for, what, 500 years? Barbary corsairs struck Iceland for gods sake! +1 faith from coastal cities?

Also the second part of the UA seems like it would be useless to the point of total irrelevance in most games, since the player usually has an absurdly hard time spreading their religion that much, and you've almost no control over when the pop growth kicks in. I like the effects of the UI, even though as turingmachine points out, its been done before, but it actually works against the rest of the design - this civ should be all about naval trade routes and this design actually penalises you for using them coz you get no benefit from the UI.

I hate to be so harsh but I just feel pretty strongly about Arab history.


Well, sure. We are open to change, tell us any ideas you might have.


COF, you would be a great government moderator or kindergarten teacher... this kind of calm is uncanny.
Although, as an Islamic history fanatic (my new title) I totally agree with Scotty. This design doesn't really scream Tunasia, and it really doesn't convey the amount of power they had. So here are some ideas that I just came up with that can be mashed together: (I need your approval Urdnot!)

For UA or UU:

Spoiler :
Naval units may pillage improvements on coastal tiles

Naval units may pillage improvements and cargo ships without declaring war, this gives a large diplomatic hit


For UA:

Spoiler :
When razing coastal cities, gain gold for each citizen and building destroyed, may raze city-states

All naval units may capture defeated units and pay less maintenance (ottoman ability). Naval units gain extra xp when they capture units

Gain double gold when a coastal city is captured

When upgraded, melee naval units gain xp and unique promotions (<--- my fav)


For UU:

Spoiler :
When it captures an enemy ship, has a chance to spawn a weak version of this ship with the same amount of experience in the capital instead of the captured ship.

+2 movement (or more)

May be automated for 10 turns (standard speed) as a barbarian that may pillage coastal tiles, sea resources, cargo ships and may capture ships. After this time, all plunder and captured ships go to you

May evade melee attacks

Can move after attacking


I think some of these would be cool if paired with more domestic abilities focused towards food and faith, and also cooperating with other civs which you share religion with (but not necessarily your religion). Another interesting focus could be diplomacy because the Barbary corsairs were able to get support and weapons from both the Dutch and the Ottomans.
 
Actually, Urdnot is someone who is extremely respectable when it comes to designs. I can understand where his frustration comes from.

Another possible idea for the UU could be that it increases strength and earns more xp or earns more gold(if an ability could be that it earns gold for every attack) the farther it is from the capital city. The temporary rogue feature is awesome, but someone else has already planned it for one of their Italian civilizations. Another ability could also be that it inherits all the experience from a unit it kills which allow it more promotions.

UI could also get a naval effect somehow. What if coastal UIs can station naval units inside of them and sort of act as fortress for all units, not just land? Seems like a stretch to say the least. Another could be that Ribats buff nearby units regardless of type.

The UA seems like something I want to think about more so I will leave it for now and wait to see if any more ideas pop out.
 
Actually, Urdnot is someone who is extremely respectable when it comes to designs. I can understand where his frustration comes from.

Another possible idea for the UU could be that it increases strength and earns more xp or earns more gold(if an ability could be that it earns gold for every attack) the farther it is from the capital city. The temporary rogue feature is awesome, but someone else has already planned it for one of their Italian civilizations. Another ability could also be that it inherits all the experience from a unit it kills which allow it more promotions.

UI could also get a naval effect somehow. What if coastal UIs can station naval units inside of them and sort of act as fortress for all units, not just land? Seems like a stretch to say the least. Another could be that Ribats buff nearby units regardless of type.

The UA seems like something I want to think about more so I will leave it for now and wait to see if any more ideas pop out.


1. The UU could gain a bonus for being far away from the capital and near the capital because ya know... RIP Italian islands

2. I like the idea of xp of captured units, as Privateers are useless without promotions but borderline OP with many promotions

3. It would be really cool if the UI could hide a ship while stationed on it, while also improving the yields

4. I also think the UA could be somthing like:

Naval units may pillage coastal tiles. Naval units may also capture embarked civilian units and civilian units on coastal tiles. Captured civilian units gain a special promotion which makes them cost extra maintenance, but they give a very large lump sum of gold when given to a civ you have a declaration of friendship with or the civ they were taken from.
 
I'm glad I'm not annoying - as I've said before I really hate being overly critical, but I wouldn't do it if I didn't think the rest of your civs are top tier in terms of design. It'd be a shame to me if one civ lagged behind the others in my eyes, so I have to speak up when I see it (so take it as a compliment really!)

Personally the only bit I think that needs a total overhaul is the UA, the Corsair and ribat both work but might need a few tweaks to fit a new UA. For the UA, if you want to keep coasts, desert and faith, with some trading stuff, how about..

UA: Barbary Corsairs
Merchant specialists yield +1 :c5faith: faith and +1 :c5food: food in cities with a naval garrison, rising to +2 :c5faith: faith and +2 :c5food: food in desert cities. Whenever a :c5greatperson: Great Merchant is born, :c5war: level up all your naval units.

Hafsid Tunis was kept alive by the fact that the profits of international piracy and the subsaharan trade networks both flowed directly into the pockets of Tunisian merchants. The Naval garrison references the way piracy and plunder brought immense wealth (and, of course, slaves) into Tunis, whereas the desert boost references how immense amounts of invaluable gold, salt and ivory found its way into Tunisian markets from beyond the Sahara. Both of things contribute towards merchants which yield urban growth (food) and ordered, well kept markets. (maintaining well kept markets are a religious duty in Islam, weirdly, hence the faith) Then there's the second part of the UA, which references all those famous corsairs who made a loot of money through the trade - half merchant, half pirate hero, passing on their skills to all your units. The two bits also work together really well, working lots of merchants will level up all your naval units and also allow you to survive and thrive in the desert.

So with that new UA, I'd only suggest a couple of tweaks to the other bits.

UU: Corsair (Replaces Galleas?)
The Corsair earns additional :c5war: experience the further it is from the :c5capital: Capital, unlike the galleas it replaces, and inherits some of the experience from units it kills, allowing it to level up extremely fast to offset its inherently weak strength when compared with the regular galleas. When garrisoned, the Corsair yields +2 :c5gold: gold and +1 :c5greatperson: great merchant point for every level it has accrued.

This corsair takes advantage of both of Regalman's experience focused ideas to make for a unit which can level up extremely quickly to get past the fact that it is much weaker than the regular galleas. Tunisian sailors were extremely competent, which is how they managed to remain relevant even when their smaller xebecs became outclassed by European warships in the 18th and even 19th centuries hence the way these ships rely on experience over brute strength. This also synergises with the UA, as you can get even more experience from the great merchants you generate - and then generate even more great merchants during peace time in order to continue the cycle. In short, keep warring for some pretty insane monetary buffs - very similar to the real Tunisian pirates.

Now I liked the ribat, and don't think everything necessarily needs to be about synergy, but I wasn't convinced by the way it encouraged land trade far too much when Tunisia should focus more on the coasts. So just a tiny tweak needed.

UI: Ribat (Available at currency)
The Ribat yields +1 :c5gold: gold and +1 :c5faith: faith, and yields an additional +1 :c5science: science and +1 :c5faith: faith after researching education, however it may only be constructed on desert tiles. Crucially, whenever you send a :trade: trade route from a city, receive :c5science: science for every worked Ribat in that city.

Shifted the yields around a bit to make up for the removal of the caravan mechanic, now making it staggered instead so the extra science isn't too overpowered. I worried about the yields here but realised quickly that the main two yields that desert tiles sorely lack which other tiles have, food and production, aren't yielded by this improvement, so it needs to be pretty strong to make up for that. Ribats were centres of learning, but also centres of faith, so the extra faith accompanying the science not only makes sense, but also ties together nicely with the small amount of faith in the UA to give the entire civ that slight faith focus you wanted in the original.

Overall then, a money focussed pirate civ which makes the most out of coastal deserts. What'dya think?
 
I actually like the tweaks you've posted, asides from the fact that the Corsair replaces the Galleas - forgive my ignorance but does it not make more sense for it to replace the Privateer?

I still feel like the original UA was pretty interesting, even if the latter part was unreliable and a tad weak - perhaps similar mechanics could be used for some future civ. That said, I understand the need to change it if it does not represent the civ at hand, I know very little about the history of Tunisia and similar states, so it is interesting to see your responses.
 
I actually like the tweaks you've posted, asides from the fact that the Corsair replaces the Galleas - forgive my ignorance but does it not make more sense for it to replace the Privateer?
The tunisians used to privateer before it was cool, like medieval hipster pirates.

Maybe not exactly like that.

A committee has been formed to find the truth in these statements.
 
Yeah I had no idea what it supposed to replace, since the design claimed 'early medieval' but also that it was a privateer so I just guessed. It doesn't really matter I suppose, though the privateer has so many promotions already that it might be stupidly OP on a privateer.
 
i told you people are gonna guess it

If it makes you feel better, I thought it was the Ottoman alt leader.
It makes me feel worse.

(Also, Niao, stop acting like.... Me :mischief:)
 
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