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those silly barbs
Lionised and Vilified
- Thread starter Cam_H
- Start date
those silly barbs
pigswill
fly (one day)
In terms of tech trading its probably worth holding off until we've got economics in the bag. The AI tend to be keen on stuff like eng, guilds, banking and PP and tend not to hold on to them, we'd have ed and lib as trade bait so we should be able to catch most of that stuff.
Summary
Generally nothing too terrible - no surprise war declarations from the AI ... the old war vs. Napoleon continues. We've just got Taj Mahal and in a Golden Age. I stuck with Bureaucracy because of Taj rather than Nationhood, but it could be worth discussing. Unfortunately popped a Great Artist (van Gogh) in Berlin rather than the expected Great Scientist. We finally pushed back those Vladivostok borders. Catherine's 'Friendly'. Someone negotiated a trade embargo against us with Maria Theresa that's just been lifted. I was able to beg 10
out of both Victoria and Suleiman early in the turnset.
Turn Report
1040AD | Opening | Turn 164
As per variant rules, switch immediately from Pacifism to Free Religion. Anarchy.
Ask for 10 from Victoria;
1050AD | Turn 1 | Turn 165
Science up to 60%
Hamburg: Oxford University (interrupt) > Forge
1060AD | Turn 2 | Turn 166
Ibt: Catherine completes Notre Dame, Victoria founds Islam.
Munich: Jewish Temple > War Elephant (emphasis on growth)
Bremen: Granary > Forge
Essen: Settler > Forge (resume)
Essen: Whip Forge
Berlin: Whip Jewish Monastery
My assumption is that the Settler was destined for the ‘Fish – 3x Fur’ spot in the south, but seeing that the coast is patrolled by Barbarian Galleys, I opt to move the Settler there but have him sleep in light of poor growth prospects and increased empire maintenance from an additional city.
1070AD | Turn 3 | Turn 167
Essen: Forge > War Elephant
Berlin: Jewish Monastery > The Taj Mahal
Hamburg: Whip Forge
Ask for 10 from Suleiman (takes an 'Earl Hickey' photograph);
1080AD | Turn 4 | Turn 168
Ibt: Victoria completes The Temple of Solomon.
Frankfurt: Stable > War Elephant
Stuttgart: University > Forge
Dortmund: Whip Forge
Science back up to 80%
1090AD | Turn 5 | Turn 169
Munich: War Elephant > War Elephant
Dortmund: Forge > War Elephant
Frankfurt: Whip War Elephant
Silver is mined and hooked-up.
1100AD | Turn 6 | Turn 170
Munich: War Elephant > War Elephant
Cologne: Jewish Temple > Forge
Frankfurt: War Elephant > Chariot (never gets built – switches to Cuirassier)
Catherine’s disposition is now ‘Friendly’.
1110AD | Turn 7 | Turn 171
Gunpowder > Guilds
Drop to 0%
Catherine and Suleiman both appear to have Gunpowder already through Guilds.
Victoria is prepared to trade Engineering + Map for Gunpowder. Tempted, but ’no dice’ for now at least.
Napoleon is now prepared to talk, but isn’t serious about his peace offering.
Catherine is prepared to trade Sugar to us, but we have no particular happiness problems. I don’t pursue it.
Maria Theresa drops Open Borders and cancels our trade deals, albeit she’s ‘Pleased’. Presume that this was part of a trading bargaining chip with someone.
Suleiman: Rice <> Fur (Munich getting quite
-pressed)
Frankfurt: Whip Cuirassier.
1120AD | Turn 8 | Turn 172
Ibt: Suleiman completes The University of Sankore. The Frankfurt – Vladivostok border is finally pushed back and we claim the new tiles including the Iron Mine.
Munich: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Frankfurt: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Maria Theresa: I opt to gift her Paper as she'll have it researched in three turns. We get a +1 diplomatic modifier but it doesn’t push her to Friendly. She’s got WFYABTA with us and won’t trade Engineering.
1130AD | Turn 9 | Turn 173
Frankfurt: Whip Cuirassier
1140AD | Turn 10 | Turn 174
Unfortunately, we pick up Vincent;
Munich: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Frankfurt: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Trade re-opens with the Holy Romans.
Victoria learns Education.
Maria Theresa: 5 per turn <> Fur
I've tweaked the tiles for the Golden Age, but quite OK if they're ultimately shuffled around. If we flip into Caste, we can run down Berlin with Merchant specialists for later founding Cereal Mills (for instance).
End of turn screenshots:
Generally nothing too terrible - no surprise war declarations from the AI ... the old war vs. Napoleon continues. We've just got Taj Mahal and in a Golden Age. I stuck with Bureaucracy because of Taj rather than Nationhood, but it could be worth discussing. Unfortunately popped a Great Artist (van Gogh) in Berlin rather than the expected Great Scientist. We finally pushed back those Vladivostok borders. Catherine's 'Friendly'. Someone negotiated a trade embargo against us with Maria Theresa that's just been lifted. I was able to beg 10
out of both Victoria and Suleiman early in the turnset.Turn Report
1040AD | Opening | Turn 164
As per variant rules, switch immediately from Pacifism to Free Religion. Anarchy.
Ask for 10
from Victoria;
1050AD | Turn 1 | Turn 165
Science up to 60%
Hamburg: Oxford University (interrupt) > Forge
1060AD | Turn 2 | Turn 166
Ibt: Catherine completes Notre Dame, Victoria founds Islam.
Munich: Jewish Temple > War Elephant (emphasis on growth)
Bremen: Granary > Forge
Essen: Settler > Forge (resume)
Essen: Whip Forge
Berlin: Whip Jewish Monastery
My assumption is that the Settler was destined for the ‘Fish – 3x Fur’ spot in the south, but seeing that the coast is patrolled by Barbarian Galleys, I opt to move the Settler there but have him sleep in light of poor growth prospects and increased empire maintenance from an additional city.
1070AD | Turn 3 | Turn 167
Essen: Forge > War Elephant
Berlin: Jewish Monastery > The Taj Mahal
Hamburg: Whip Forge
Ask for 10
from Suleiman (takes an 'Earl Hickey' photograph);
1080AD | Turn 4 | Turn 168
Ibt: Victoria completes The Temple of Solomon.
Frankfurt: Stable > War Elephant
Stuttgart: University > Forge
Dortmund: Whip Forge
Science back up to 80%
1090AD | Turn 5 | Turn 169
Munich: War Elephant > War Elephant
Dortmund: Forge > War Elephant
Frankfurt: Whip War Elephant
Silver is mined and hooked-up.
1100AD | Turn 6 | Turn 170
Munich: War Elephant > War Elephant
Cologne: Jewish Temple > Forge
Frankfurt: War Elephant > Chariot (never gets built – switches to Cuirassier)
Catherine’s disposition is now ‘Friendly’.
1110AD | Turn 7 | Turn 171
Gunpowder > Guilds
Drop to 0%
Catherine and Suleiman both appear to have Gunpowder already through Guilds.
Victoria is prepared to trade Engineering + Map for Gunpowder. Tempted, but ’no dice’ for now at least.
Napoleon is now prepared to talk, but isn’t serious about his peace offering.
Catherine is prepared to trade Sugar to us, but we have no particular happiness problems. I don’t pursue it.
Maria Theresa drops Open Borders and cancels our trade deals, albeit she’s ‘Pleased’. Presume that this was part of a trading bargaining chip with someone.
Suleiman: Rice <> Fur (Munich getting quite
-pressed)Frankfurt: Whip Cuirassier.
1120AD | Turn 8 | Turn 172
Ibt: Suleiman completes The University of Sankore. The Frankfurt – Vladivostok border is finally pushed back and we claim the new tiles including the Iron Mine.
Munich: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Frankfurt: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Maria Theresa: I opt to gift her Paper as she'll have it researched in three turns. We get a +1 diplomatic modifier but it doesn’t push her to Friendly. She’s got WFYABTA with us and won’t trade Engineering.
1130AD | Turn 9 | Turn 173
Frankfurt: Whip Cuirassier
1140AD | Turn 10 | Turn 174
Unfortunately, we pick up Vincent;
Munich: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Frankfurt: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Trade re-opens with the Holy Romans.
Victoria learns Education.
Maria Theresa: 5
per turn <> FurI've tweaked the tiles for the Golden Age, but quite OK if they're ultimately shuffled around. If we flip into Caste, we can run down Berlin with Merchant specialists for later founding Cereal Mills (for instance).
End of turn screenshots:
Spoiler :
nocho <<< On Deck
Sengir
vranasm
pigswill
lymond
Cam
cabert <<< Up
Sengir
vranasm
pigswill
lymond
Cam
cabert <<< Up
Are we set for Cathy indeed, or should we create some Lebensraum in the Hamburg area?vranasm
Deity
looks good... 9 WE's thats 450 gold to upgrade?
btw why we're afraid from barb galleys with the fish down there? From what I see it's ocean and barbs can't enter ocean tiles
getting GM for CM hears nice and I am afraid we should get the GM due to the variant.
btw why we're afraid from barb galleys with the fish down there? From what I see it's ocean and barbs can't enter ocean tiles
getting GM for CM hears nice and I am afraid we should get the GM due to the variant.
got it
so what's the plan now that we got troops?
here is what I propose : take out nappy for real
switch to nationhood and draft muskets for city defense in fishy
trade resources for gold
hold on with trades until we get economics? AFAIK we don't have a monoply on education and the other have guilds
(and maybe banking?)
we could trade lib for engineering with vicky, but it can only help her tech better to economics
so what's the plan now that we got troops?
here is what I propose : take out nappy for real
switch to nationhood and draft muskets for city defense in fishy
trade resources for gold
hold on with trades until we get economics? AFAIK we don't have a monoply on education and the other have guilds
(and maybe banking?)we could trade lib for engineering with vicky, but it can only help her tech better to economics
pigswill
fly (one day)
There's a 50:50 chance that Vicky will go for rifling first. We do of course need guilds and banking for economics. If Vicky goes for economics then she'll win the race (unless we ruthlessly backstab her while Cat and Nap are wrapped up in a little war 
)
)
- Joined
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I say settle the GA in Berlin. We could of course just bomb it, but the overall benefit of settling is better. I did think about bombing Hamburg with it though.
Next player - Check Munich and switch from workshop to Plains Hill mine. Stupid city govnahs
Part of me wants to attack Ottos or Vicky. I think we should make a play on Nappy though. At least take a couple of cities or maybe cap him. We might consider taking that Viking city on the way to France.
Trade Edu to Cathy for Engineering and Gold. We could bribe Ottos in on Nappy or Cathy with Edu as well.
I would send main army up to Cologne and a secondary army established in Frankfurt.
Next player - Check Munich and switch from workshop to Plains Hill mine. Stupid city govnahs
Part of me wants to attack Ottos or Vicky. I think we should make a play on Nappy though. At least take a couple of cities or maybe cap him. We might consider taking that Viking city on the way to France.
Trade Edu to Cathy for Engineering and Gold. We could bribe Ottos in on Nappy or Cathy with Edu as well.
I would send main army up to Cologne and a secondary army established in Frankfurt.
- Joined
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- Messages
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It is cheaper to bribe AIs on someone already at war. However, you can start a chain reaction this way. For instance, bribe Ottos on Nappy and Vicky on Ottos.
pigswill
fly (one day)
The most significant challenge left is likely to be generating a GM for CM. While we have some time to acheive this we need to consider how we're going to do this.
yep, I'm not very optimistic about getting the one from economics.
I'll try to play this week end somehow, with the following plan :
- trade for engineering
- attack nappy with all we have (upgrading seems possible, but means slower teching, so I won't do it)
- switch to nationhood and use fishy to get an army of muskets
- try to get something from nappy for peace then attack vicky
- try to trade for guilds and/or banking
I'll try to play this week end somehow, with the following plan :
- trade for engineering
- attack nappy with all we have (upgrading seems possible, but means slower teching, so I won't do it)
- switch to nationhood and use fishy to get an army of muskets
- try to get something from nappy for peace then attack vicky
- try to trade for guilds and/or banking
I don't think we're in a desperate hurry for the Great Merchant given how far away we are from Cereal Mills, but I have no problem with running down Berlin's population with Merchants while in Caste during the Golden Age to dramatically improve our chances of popping one. It'll still be a messy 
pool to draw from, but I'd guess we'd still have a fair shot.
I'm happy to empower you guys with your choice of victim and other DoW matters. As one approach, I wouldn't mind keeping Catherine on-side just to get that 'Defensive Pact' variant 'done and dusted' if we both ever find ourselves out of conflict.
Best of luck!
pool to draw from, but I'd guess we'd still have a fair shot.I'm happy to empower you guys with your choice of victim and other DoW matters. As one approach, I wouldn't mind keeping Catherine on-side just to get that 'Defensive Pact' variant 'done and dusted' if we both ever find ourselves out of conflict.
Best of luck!
Played the game :
turn 1 :
trade education for engineering+200 gold with Cathy
trade fur for sugar with cathy
trade fur for 5 gpt with maria
trade theology for 150 gold with gustav
revolted to caste and nation
upgraded 3 war elephants with the trade money
drafted 1 musket
switched Berlin to growth + 2 merchants and a market (for more $ + merchant slots later + happiness)
moved troops
set research to 50%
the english don't like us enough to attack anyone on our behalf. Suleiman would attack vicky for edu + nation, too high a price, so I don't take it.
turn 2
draft
turn 3
draft
turn 4 (or is it 5?) took tours without a loss, draft of course
turn 6
england has teched economics, while we just made it to guilds. I set research to printed press, thinking about possible trades + scientific method + rifling
turn 7
Berlin market >grocer (more slots, more money), switched back to slavery
turn 8 took marseilles, got 1 GG
turn 9 hit rheims
moving GG with a cuirassier towards the front to be attached to a medic
turn 10 took rheims, nappy is ready to capitulate.
This is where I stopped.
THE SAVE
turn 1 :
trade education for engineering+200 gold with Cathy
trade fur for sugar with cathy
trade fur for 5 gpt with maria
trade theology for 150 gold with gustav
revolted to caste and nation
upgraded 3 war elephants with the trade money
drafted 1 musket
switched Berlin to growth + 2 merchants and a market (for more $ + merchant slots later + happiness)
moved troops
set research to 50%
the english don't like us enough to attack anyone on our behalf. Suleiman would attack vicky for edu + nation, too high a price, so I don't take it.
turn 2
draft
turn 3
draft
turn 4 (or is it 5?) took tours without a loss
, draft of courseturn 6
england has teched economics, while we just made it to guilds
. I set research to printed press, thinking about possible trades + scientific method + riflingturn 7
Berlin market >grocer (more slots, more money), switched back to slavery
turn 8 took marseilles, got 1 GG
turn 9 hit rheims
moving GG with a cuirassier towards the front to be attached to a medic
turn 10 took rheims, nappy is ready to capitulate.
This is where I stopped.
THE SAVE
vranasm
Deity
looks good, even if I am a bit puzzled about the army in the north east.
I am not sure if we should risk nappy vassaling to Russia.
We have already around 30% of land, if we vassal Nappy it will be something like 35% I guess
so we can probably cap only 1 or 2 AI's more. so we should choose carefully. Since one of those targets would be Russia, we should talk about which another would be best.
To me like next best target somehow looks Maria theresa or Sulleiman.
This map is really weird, don't see much good land (would explain a bit why the game feels more like emperor) and the AI's are pretty thrown around, so there is no clear strengthening of borders.
I say vassal Nappy and go for Maria Theresa, cap her in next TS and the TS after will be about Russia.
then switch into tech mode for CM, build the culture in Berlin and finish Domination.
I am not sure if we should risk nappy vassaling to Russia.
We have already around 30% of land, if we vassal Nappy it will be something like 35% I guess
so we can probably cap only 1 or 2 AI's more. so we should choose carefully. Since one of those targets would be Russia, we should talk about which another would be best.
To me like next best target somehow looks Maria theresa or Sulleiman.
This map is really weird, don't see much good land (would explain a bit why the game feels more like emperor) and the AI's are pretty thrown around, so there is no clear strengthening of borders.
I say vassal Nappy and go for Maria Theresa, cap her in next TS and the TS after will be about Russia.
then switch into tech mode for CM, build the culture in Berlin and finish Domination.
The variant requires us to DP or vassal HRE or Russia. So wouldn't it be most logical to go after either one of these next, especially given our army is right in between. HRE would be a total cakewalk, likely.
I'm up, right? Got it. I'll try to squeeze out a GM from Berlin. If we don't pop him next turn, whip grocer asap and hore 4 merchants. I think we also want hermitage in Berlin for the 20k culture thingy.
Any strong ideas about possible GPs we pop next turn if not a GM?
I'm up, right? Got it. I'll try to squeeze out a GM from Berlin. If we don't pop him next turn, whip grocer asap and hore 4 merchants. I think we also want hermitage in Berlin for the 20k culture thingy.
Any strong ideas about possible GPs we pop next turn if not a GM?
pigswill
fly (one day)
No need to whip grocer in Berlin, diverting from food to hammer tiles will get it built soon enough while keeping pop to run merchants.
Belated "Nice one!" cabert!
I'm agreeing with the general sentiments already expressed by the roster. We could 'possibly' otherwise bribe Catherine to make peace with Napoleon, and hope that he doesn't peace vassal to Suleiman instead (I can't see any other likely possibilities). I'd be nice to take Paris, as at 26% global spread of Buddhism, The Mahabodhi's surely worth some nice coin ...
... still - I'm quite content to cap' him and move on to attacking Maria Theresa.
Agree with Hermitage in Berlin (more Great Artist points, but maybe they'll work out at addressing 'The Musical Offering' variant).
If we do pop a Great Scientist, I'd be fine to build an Academy in Hamburg (Oxford University city). Great Engineer might need to get burned as part of a Golden Age - although if we were happy to go after Democracy, then The Statue of Liberty is an option.
Technology-wise, is it Printing Press > Corporation to improve our economy?
I'm agreeing with the general sentiments already expressed by the roster. We could 'possibly' otherwise bribe Catherine to make peace with Napoleon, and hope that he doesn't peace vassal to Suleiman instead (I can't see any other likely possibilities). I'd be nice to take Paris, as at 26% global spread of Buddhism, The Mahabodhi's surely worth some nice coin ...
... still - I'm quite content to cap' him and move on to attacking Maria Theresa.
Agree with Hermitage in Berlin (more Great Artist points, but maybe they'll work out at addressing 'The Musical Offering' variant).
If we do pop a Great Scientist, I'd be fine to build an Academy in Hamburg (Oxford University city). Great Engineer might need to get burned as part of a Golden Age - although if we were happy to go after Democracy, then The Statue of Liberty is an option.
Technology-wise, is it Printing Press > Corporation to improve our economy?
