Lionised and Vilified
- Thread starter Cam_H
- Start date
vranasm
Deity
doesn't look like deeper in russia it's lucrative land... except for those 2 gems in yakutsk BFC... that i wanted initially to get...
but as it seems we don't really need happy, I would probably agree with capping and steaming for techs...
switching cuirs builds into wealth builds etc.
but as it seems we don't really need happy, I would probably agree with capping and steaming for techs...
switching cuirs builds into wealth builds etc.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Cap her. Should put us to 52-53% land, no problem.
Hopefully we're big enough and powerful enough to survive a Dow by any of our uncapped neighbours.
afaik we'll get Yakutsk's gems regardless of Cat's culture though we may need to keep units in our recent acquisitions to eliminate chance of revolts.
Hopefully we're big enough and powerful enough to survive a Dow by any of our uncapped neighbours.
afaik we'll get Yakutsk's gems regardless of Cat's culture though we may need to keep units in our recent acquisitions to eliminate chance of revolts.
I'll join the mob calling to cap her. 
Rest of the game should be cruising to fulfill the variant requirements. Only popping the merchant for cereal mills might be problematic, though we could maybe always go to caste and hire a bazillion merchants in Frankfurt, if need be.
Rest of the game should be cruising to fulfill the variant requirements. Only popping the merchant for cereal mills might be problematic, though we could maybe always go to caste and hire a bazillion merchants in Frankfurt, if need be.
Turn 6 cont:
Cap Cathy; OB with her; trade Clam for Sheep; she's 4 turns from Constitution so I let her finish that tech and set Gustav to Astronomy
We're at 50% from the dom-limit, though a couple of cities are still in revolt. We can probably cap another AI if we want to
Turn 7:
I'm moving the troops to Cologne for lack of a better place to put them. They're making a bit of a dent in our budget so we might want to consider downsizing it.
I'm also building some monasteries to be able to build temples + cathedrals in Berlin for extra culture multipliers.
Turn 8:
Setting some cities to building wealth
Turn 9:
We get a Great Engineer.
I stop here as I think we should discuss how to get a GM fastest (we've still got time before we reach refrigeration, but with our luck our next Great person will be a 0.0001% chance priest).
I think a switch to Caste is in order, hiring merchants in Frankfurt, while switching Berlin to full production mode to get more culture quicker.
Domlimit at this point (no cities in revolt)
51,34% (64 allowed). I'm kinda in favor of another quick war. The English don't have much land and should be easy to conquer. They're also the most advanced (though they researched peace-techs).
Cap Cathy; OB with her; trade Clam for Sheep; she's 4 turns from Constitution so I let her finish that tech and set Gustav to Astronomy
We're at 50% from the dom-limit, though a couple of cities are still in revolt. We can probably cap another AI if we want to
Turn 7:
I'm moving the troops to Cologne for lack of a better place to put them. They're making a bit of a dent in our budget so we might want to consider downsizing it.
I'm also building some monasteries to be able to build temples + cathedrals in Berlin for extra culture multipliers.
Turn 8:
Setting some cities to building wealth
Turn 9:
We get a Great Engineer.
I stop here as I think we should discuss how to get a GM fastest (we've still got time before we reach refrigeration, but with our luck our next Great person will be a 0.0001% chance priest).
I think a switch to Caste is in order, hiring merchants in Frankfurt, while switching Berlin to full production mode to get more culture quicker.
Domlimit at this point (no cities in revolt)
51,34% (64 allowed). I'm kinda in favor of another quick war. The English don't have much land and should be easy to conquer. They're also the most advanced (though they researched peace-techs).
Well done!
I agree with Sengir on the prospective war with England. We could possibly just take York and Victoria would probably capitulate to us (without us overstepping the Domination limit) given her fragile forces. While Christianity has hardly spread, Judaism is the predominant religion, and she's shrined both in York. Keep the Great Engineer with the view to rush Wall Street in York when we get the tech's and found Cereal Mills there when we get the tech's and the Great Merchant.
Likewise agree with nocho that we should seriously look at running The Caste System - post-Biology at latest, as both the Cereal Mills Great Merchant, and culture-bombing Great Artists for Berlin would be handy. Slavery's hard to give up though.
I agree with Sengir on the prospective war with England. We could possibly just take York and Victoria would probably capitulate to us (without us overstepping the Domination limit) given her fragile forces. While Christianity has hardly spread, Judaism is the predominant religion, and she's shrined both in York. Keep the Great Engineer with the view to rush Wall Street in York when we get the tech's and found Cereal Mills there when we get the tech's and the Great Merchant.
Likewise agree with nocho that we should seriously look at running The Caste System - post-Biology at latest, as both the Cereal Mills Great Merchant, and culture-bombing Great Artists for Berlin would be handy. Slavery's hard to give up though.
nocho
Sengir
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lymond
Cam
cabert
Sengir
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lymond
Cam
cabert
vranasm
Deity
looks good from the descriptions
will post "got it" and serious thoughts this evening (with PPP), but from what I read... I agree with caste if we lack the GM still and Frankfurt is clearly best candidate.
I don't agree with waring, have to check how the Vicky is going (rifling wise), but I think it's time to switch a bit for teching, meet deadlines and then we can trip the dom limit if we want.
The claiming land with own culture after wars can really quickly backfire.
but as I said have to check the save ;-).
will post "got it" and serious thoughts this evening (with PPP), but from what I read... I agree with caste if we lack the GM still and Frankfurt is clearly best candidate.
I don't agree with waring
, have to check how the Vicky is going (rifling wise), but I think it's time to switch a bit for teching, meet deadlines and then we can trip the dom limit if we want.The claiming land with own culture after wars can really quickly backfire.
but as I said have to check the save ;-).
Don't think we'll be close to hitting the domlimit if we cap Vicky fast. In the worst case, we can simply gift back some cities to their previous owners.
Biggest problem with the war with Vicky is that she's in a position to bribe the rest of the world (consisting of Suleiman and his pet) in a war against us. We can handle them both, but getting enough war success against him without taking a city might be annoying (though we can simple capture a city and gift it back afterwards. Or raze a city).
Biggest problem with the war with Vicky is that she's in a position to bribe the rest of the world (consisting of Suleiman and his pet) in a war against us. We can handle them both, but getting enough war success against him without taking a city might be annoying (though we can simple capture a city and gift it back afterwards. Or raze a city).
vranasm
Deity
this is an "got it" and kind of PPP post...
Maybe first I will try to do a bit review of the game as I see it right now.
I think we did great job with our wars and secured deciding number of cities from AI's (16). We are not that good off in the way for next great person, since we want to get Great Merchant and each city I checked had already big pollution (even Frankfurt) which makes getting GM as next GP risky, thus we should have in mind that we actually could need buildup GM points for 2 consecutive great persons.
(frankfurt has already over 300 nonGM GPP - it's 25% of GPP for next GP)
In the beforementioned problems I agree with switching into Caste. Berlin switched to growth and Frankfurt employs Merchants.
Victoria is 1T from Gunpowder (means muskets), HRE is working on Chemistry (11T).
From the look at the map I absolutely don't know why we would attack Victoria since her only city in reach is York and is pressed from Ankara and Konya and we would have big troubles to hold those city against the culture pressure from Sully.
I am strongly against attacking Victoria. I could see us taking Bursa and Konya/Ankara from Sully instead (Ankara has Versailles) (but strongly complicates our tech trade situation with HRE and Vicky being WFYABTA).
But in Bursa Sully has around 15 troops and could be hit 1st turn of war.
But I would prefer no warring at all.
I don't understand why we build non jewish religious buildings and why we don't build jewish temples everywhere.
I would try to finish spreading jewish into our last 2 cities that don't have it.
If someone knows better then me (and I am not sure really) if we can change religion through diplomacy of our Vassals, maybe it would be worth our time to spread jewish religion into our Vassals and convert them, since our diplo situation now is averaged.
I see Rheims as best candidate for Forbidden palace (after Jewish temple and forge) and we will need it due to our variant (corps)
considering builds... generally.
Every city should have granary, courthouse, forge, jewish temple, maybe theatre and if it has everything should build wealth to push up slider.
thus cities having 0 hammers invested into builds that are not anything mentioned before will be switched.
There is exception with Jewish missionaries, where I would slot in 2 mishs, if we agree to spread to vassals, then of course more eventually. Our HE city is probably best candidate :-D
As for techs I would continue towards Refrigeration (better said scimeth->biology->medicine, since we need astro+physics+electrics too for refr, but there should be some tech trades for it involved imo).
As for the workers I would continue with the work of my ancestors. I think Yakutsk needs farms from irrigation, but i have a feeling we are already preparing irrigations there with those 2 workers.
I can't switch back to bureau since it would cost us 2 turns of anarchy and maybe even wouldn't be worth it.
So basically that is my feelings...
Maybe first I will try to do a bit review of the game as I see it right now.
I think we did great job with our wars and secured deciding number of cities from AI's (16). We are not that good off in the way for next great person, since we want to get Great Merchant and each city I checked had already big pollution (even Frankfurt) which makes getting GM as next GP risky, thus we should have in mind that we actually could need buildup GM points for 2 consecutive great persons.
(frankfurt has already over 300 nonGM GPP - it's 25% of GPP for next GP)
In the beforementioned problems I agree with switching into Caste. Berlin switched to growth and Frankfurt employs Merchants.
Victoria is 1T from Gunpowder (means muskets), HRE is working on Chemistry (11T).
From the look at the map I absolutely don't know why we would attack Victoria since her only city in reach is York and is pressed from Ankara and Konya and we would have big troubles to hold those city against the culture pressure from Sully.
I am strongly against attacking Victoria. I could see us taking Bursa and Konya/Ankara from Sully instead (Ankara has Versailles) (but strongly complicates our tech trade situation with HRE and Vicky being WFYABTA).
But in Bursa Sully has around 15 troops and could be hit 1st turn of war.
But I would prefer no warring at all.
I don't understand why we build non jewish religious buildings and why we don't build jewish temples everywhere.
I would try to finish spreading jewish into our last 2 cities that don't have it.
If someone knows better then me (and I am not sure really) if we can change religion through diplomacy of our Vassals, maybe it would be worth our time to spread jewish religion into our Vassals and convert them, since our diplo situation now is averaged.
I see Rheims as best candidate for Forbidden palace (after Jewish temple and forge) and we will need it due to our variant (corps)
considering builds... generally.
Every city should have granary, courthouse, forge, jewish temple, maybe theatre and if it has everything should build wealth to push up slider.
thus cities having 0 hammers invested into builds that are not anything mentioned before will be switched.
There is exception with Jewish missionaries, where I would slot in 2 mishs, if we agree to spread to vassals, then of course more eventually. Our HE city is probably best candidate :-D
As for techs I would continue towards Refrigeration (better said scimeth->biology->medicine, since we need astro+physics+electrics too for refr, but there should be some tech trades for it involved imo).
As for the workers I would continue with the work of my ancestors. I think Yakutsk needs farms from irrigation, but i have a feeling we are already preparing irrigations there with those 2 workers.
I can't switch back to bureau since it would cost us 2 turns of anarchy and maybe even wouldn't be worth it.
So basically that is my feelings...
vranasm
Deity
checked the tile improvements section deeper...
we have something like 9 cottages, 10 hamlets and 14 villages (from memory, already closed the game), around 34 potential towns, they are ungrown though.
If I have around 40 towns I generally tend to switch into cottage economy in my games (US, FS, Eman), but some of those towns are non riverside (especially around yakutsk and the dye french city) so I see us going with overriding those things with farms/shops and using state property instead.
What is everyone feeling about this for my turnset (and worker turns)... am I allowed to get rid of those... improvements... ?
we have something like 9 cottages, 10 hamlets and 14 villages (from memory, already closed the game), around 34 potential towns, they are ungrown though.
If I have around 40 towns I generally tend to switch into cottage economy in my games (US, FS, Eman), but some of those towns are non riverside (especially around yakutsk and the dye french city) so I see us going with overriding those things with farms/shops and using state property instead.
What is everyone feeling about this for my turnset (and worker turns)... am I allowed to get rid of those... improvements... ?
The non-jewish religious buildings are solely to get more cathedrals (= culture multipliers) in Berlin. Other then that, I agree with you're conclusions about city builds.
Tech path: I agree, cathy can be used for some research as she's still teching at a decent pace. The other two are pretty useless, though they can be used for backfilling.
State properties isn't really an option with the need for corporations. I don't care about cottages though.
The reason I favor war is that we still have an advantage and a pretty big army. We might as well use it. I don't mind taking on Suleiman either, but at the moment Vicky is more advanced, and will be more useful as a vassal.
Tech path: I agree, cathy can be used for some research as she's still teching at a decent pace. The other two are pretty useless, though they can be used for backfilling.
State properties isn't really an option with the need for corporations. I don't care about cottages though.
The reason I favor war is that we still have an advantage and a pretty big army. We might as well use it. I don't mind taking on Suleiman either, but at the moment Vicky is more advanced, and will be more useful as a vassal.
vranasm
Deity
oops ;-) totally slipped my mind the corps and SP conflict... I am so used to SP that I forgot sometimes basic things...
do we need more cathedrals? we have in berlin +202cpt after synagogue it's 252 cpt, we need 20k-5850 culture and that means without building anything other then the synagogue it's 54 turns to finish the variant.
We could build culture directly shortening it even more.
fair enough, 50 turns looks long (still dunno how long till we get the GM and corp and spread it though and then finish..is it more then 50 turns?)
I would probably go with hindu cath, but the tao one looks a bit "useless". So I have to find another hindu city for 3rd temple and switch the tao temple away.
What about the GE? spare it for GA or settle? I dunno if there is anything worth rushing still. edit: he adds 2 basic culture :-D :-D
do we need more cathedrals? we have in berlin +202cpt after synagogue it's 252 cpt, we need 20k-5850 culture and that means without building anything other then the synagogue it's 54 turns to finish the variant.
We could build culture directly shortening it even more.
fair enough, 50 turns looks long (still dunno how long till we get the GM and corp and spread it though and then finish..is it more then 50 turns?)
I would probably go with hindu cath, but the tao one looks a bit "useless". So I have to find another hindu city for 3rd temple and switch the tao temple away.
What about the GE? spare it for GA or settle? I dunno if there is anything worth rushing still. edit: he adds 2 basic culture :-D :-D
Nah don't bother, we're going to need those 50t for the corp spreading anyway. But we don't need much else either I suppose so I was going a bit culture happy. 
Save the GE, if next GP isn't a GM we'll burn them both for a GA to speed up the next GP.
Save the GE, if next GP isn't a GM we'll burn them both for a GA to speed up the next GP.
Frankly I'm fine with either attacking Vicky or not, I don't think it'll matter a lot. Then again, we might do it just for fun and for the double shrine city that is York.
Definitely build FP somewhere.
Maybe sell of liberalism to Suleiman for the remainder of SciMeth and to Vicky for her cash. Lib won't help them much while we get some cash and save 2 turns on research. Tech speed seems the bottleneck now.
I think I'd just switch to caste right away and hire 6 merchants in Berlin and 9 in Frankfurt (which starves at -1 food, but it has a 34-turn buffer). If we're unlucky with next one to pop then the subsequent won't be too far away, especially if we launch that GA with the GE and the unwanted specialist we pop.
Definitely build FP somewhere.
Maybe sell of liberalism to Suleiman for the remainder of SciMeth and to Vicky for her cash. Lib won't help them much while we get some cash and save 2 turns on research. Tech speed seems the bottleneck now.
I think I'd just switch to caste right away and hire 6 merchants in Berlin and 9 in Frankfurt (which starves at -1 food, but it has a 34-turn buffer). If we're unlucky with next one to pop then the subsequent won't be too far away, especially if we launch that GA with the GE and the unwanted specialist we pop.
Generally fine with the approach if that's what you want (but personally I'd still take York and cap' England).
'We' can't convert our vassals to a religion via diplomatic requests as we're in Free Religion (I'm not sure if that's what you meant {actively make them convert} - or whether you just meant giving them lots of Jewish Missionaries with the hope that they'll make the switch themselves {passive}). Seems a lot of work.
'We' can't convert our vassals to a religion via diplomatic requests as we're in Free Religion (I'm not sure if that's what you meant {actively make them convert} - or whether you just meant giving them lots of Jewish Missionaries with the hope that they'll make the switch themselves {passive}). Seems a lot of work.
vranasm
Deity
yeah thanks for explaining the convert mechanics, wasn't sure there. I was checking the diplo and wasn't sure why I can't demand to switch to religion... now it's clear... was just an idea I will put aside.
as it seems the roster really wants to war... well the troops have to heal, so I will let them and then I will move them close to York for next player.
I will scout out a bit Vicky though.
