Rowan
Warlord
DELL 19
Where does the Barb leader go if you can't get to him in time. He just seems to disapear.
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Where does the Barb leader go if you can't get to him in time. He just seems to disapear.
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List of AI Stupidities
- Thread starter Thunderfall
- Start date
islandboy
Chieftain
Hey Dell
Who knows!
I'm playing a modified Prince level on ToT (not cheat) and note that the barb leaders sod off after 1 turn once all their support units are gone. I've got barb level set to restless tribes, but I've modified a few game attributes (like settlers can attack, roads are x 4, not x 3, Great Wall & Leonardo always stay, fun things like that 
).
One of the AI things that really bites me, and has since Civ 1, is the way that AI Democracies can declare war or break treaties without falling over! How uncool is that! Due to the number of cheats like that, i've modified game play a bit (esp when I'm on emporer level) as per above to "level out" the playing field a bit.
Who knows!
I'm playing a modified Prince level on ToT (not cheat) and note that the barb leaders sod off after 1 turn once all their support units are gone. I've got barb level set to restless tribes, but I've modified a few game attributes (like settlers can attack, roads are x 4, not x 3, Great Wall & Leonardo always stay, fun things like that ).One of the AI things that really bites me, and has since Civ 1, is the way that AI Democracies can declare war or break treaties without falling over! How uncool is that! Due to the number of cheats like that, i've modified game play a bit (esp when I'm on emporer level) as per above to "level out" the playing field a bit.
duke o' york
It don't mean a thing....
Most people who play on levels above Prince find that you have to "level" things the other way, and make things easier for the AI. Rather than alter the rules file, you should try to improve your game so that you don't need to make things easier for yourself. One of the best ways is to learn how to use caravans to make the optimum trade from each route, and to use the SSC strategy to try to achieve more than one advance per turn. It sounds strange, but with a little practice is easy and will allow you to climb throught the levels without having to make things easier for the AI at all. Try looking at the War Academy at the front page of this site (bit of a misnomer to be honest, but 'poly got the Great Library title first) or searching for posts by starlifter in the Civ 2 strategy and tips forum. He explains clearly how to make the best use of caravans to gain a clear tech lead on the AI. If you can't beat the AI's musketmen with your howitzers then you clearly are beyond help!
islandboy
Chieftain
Hey Duke
I know, it's just not cricket to "alter the rules". I've been playing Civ for a long time now, and I can win regularly on all levels except Emporer and Deity, I just get bored easily with some things and like changing stuff around. Besides, why shouldn't the City Walls feature of the Great Wall stay? What happens when it expires - does the Wall suddenly evaporate? Sure, take away the benefit of forcing others to do business, but leave the City Walls. Ditto with Leonardos. And the road multiplier just speeds game play up a bit - helps AI as much as me. Settlers should have better defence and some attack - the old pioneers of the US West are famous (infamous?) for their "circling the wagons" defensive thang. Surely that counts for a reasonable defence, and they obviously carried weapons. So, you see, my mods simply reflect the way I see real-life applications to the way Civ plays.
I will have a look-see thru the strategy stuff. Thanks for that.
I know, it's just not cricket to "alter the rules".
I've been playing Civ for a long time now, and I can win regularly on all levels except Emporer and Deity, I just get bored easily with some things and like changing stuff around. Besides, why shouldn't the City Walls feature of the Great Wall stay? What happens when it expires - does the Wall suddenly evaporate? Sure, take away the benefit of forcing others to do business, but leave the City Walls. Ditto with Leonardos. And the road multiplier just speeds game play up a bit - helps AI as much as me. Settlers should have better defence and some attack - the old pioneers of the US West are famous (infamous?) for their "circling the wagons" defensive thang. Surely that counts for a reasonable defence, and they obviously carried weapons. So, you see, my mods simply reflect the way I see real-life applications to the way Civ plays.I will have a look-see thru the strategy stuff. Thanks for that.
duke o' york
It don't mean a thing....
Be that as it may, but how often does the AI actually manage to build Leo's workshop? You may think it a massive improvement for your phalanxes to end up as mech infantry and for your horsemen to end up as tanks, but how would you like it if it was to happen against you? Basically most players recognise how important Leo's can be and will focus especially on building it, stocking up caravans, etc. The AI can't do this and so unless you choose to let the AI have it, it will always be beaten in the race to it and you will always have the benefits.
A propos de the Great Wall, do you ever let the AI have this as well? It depends upon your game style whether you think that the eternal granaries of the Pyramids are worth their while or not, but to have city walls in all your cities with no upkeep charge seems a little unfair. Since you have upgraded it, it is obvious that you want this wonder too. Why don't you allow the Oracle, or some other rubbishy wonder that the AI always builds, give you all happy people all the time and 20 free tanks at the beginning of the middle ages? Because if it was this good then you would build it yourself. The wonders are reasonably balanced as they are and to make their effects even stronger seems to be unduly weighting the game in your favour, allowing no challenge.
For your settlers, you forget that the wagon circles of the west bore guns and for the victories of which you speak were fighting against troops who didn't have firearms. Armed with swords and spades and so forth, they would still be decimated by a band of warriors unless they were on a hill or other adequate defense. Once again, the system works. I'm not saying that mods are fundamentally wrong, but you do seem to have unbalanced the game and substantially weakened the (already weak) threat of the AI. If you were to play with these modifications against another human in multi then you would be most despondent when he managed to build Leo's first and then began to crush your medieval troops with his tanks.
A propos de the Great Wall, do you ever let the AI have this as well? It depends upon your game style whether you think that the eternal granaries of the Pyramids are worth their while or not, but to have city walls in all your cities with no upkeep charge seems a little unfair. Since you have upgraded it, it is obvious that you want this wonder too. Why don't you allow the Oracle, or some other rubbishy wonder that the AI always builds, give you all happy people all the time and 20 free tanks at the beginning of the middle ages? Because if it was this good then you would build it yourself. The wonders are reasonably balanced as they are and to make their effects even stronger seems to be unduly weighting the game in your favour, allowing no challenge.
For your settlers, you forget that the wagon circles of the west bore guns and for the victories of which you speak were fighting against troops who didn't have firearms. Armed with swords and spades and so forth, they would still be decimated by a band of warriors unless they were on a hill or other adequate defense. Once again, the system works. I'm not saying that mods are fundamentally wrong, but you do seem to have unbalanced the game and substantially weakened the (already weak) threat of the AI. If you were to play with these modifications against another human in multi then you would be most despondent when he managed to build Leo's first and then began to crush your medieval troops with his tanks.
thoxic
Chieftain
The most horrible cheat Ai uses is the nuclear bombing
It can bomb any town (the ones which have no SDI)
even it's too far from any of the AI's cities and too far from any sea.
To be sure I save before a turn where I was attacked.I spread
many and many military unit all around my town to be sure
missile can't attain my city but It has no effect the missile comes from a place where some units of mine are.
Moreover how does the missile arrived?
It can bomb any town (the ones which have no SDI)
even it's too far from any of the AI's cities and too far from any sea.
To be sure I save before a turn where I was attacked.I spread
many and many military unit all around my town to be sure
missile can't attain my city but It has no effect the missile comes from a place where some units of mine are.
Moreover how does the missile arrived?
islandboy
Chieftain
Duke
Of course, all you say is absolutely true. My response: Too bad for the AI. The AI "cheats" so often it's not funny, and THAT takes all the fun out of the game. Sure, it would be a right pain of the AI got the Wall and Leos, which I have had happen on King level. No problem. I identified the cities they were in and made a campaign to take them. See, it DOES add a benefitial side to things! As for playing against human, I've never had the opportunity to do that. But, as my mods are for the "cheating" AI, I would re-load all the defaults against a human, with perhaps the exception of the Wall and road multiplier. My brother who lives in Oz is coming over later this year, and we're going to try having a bash against each other, so it will be fun to see what that is like.
Thoxic
I know what you mean! I REALLY hate that one. I'm in a game now where I'm flat out building SDI. But I can guarantee that the only cities that will get nuked will be miles from any AI and be the only 1 in a bunch that DOESN'T have the SDI built yet!
I think the AI uses its knowledge of what I have where (since it IS the computer, after all) to blitz the unprotected cities. Talk about insider trading!! Don't foget tho, that a nuke DOES have a range of 16, and subs / carriers can carry them. So, it IS poss that the AI could park a sub or carrier of your shore somewhere and clobber a city well in-land. It still remains tho that the AI DOES know which of our cities are not defended - what a crock!
Of course, all you say is absolutely true. My response: Too bad for the AI.
The AI "cheats" so often it's not funny, and THAT takes all the fun out of the game. Sure, it would be a right pain of the AI got the Wall and Leos, which I have had happen on King level. No problem. I identified the cities they were in and made a campaign to take them. See, it DOES add a benefitial side to things! As for playing against human, I've never had the opportunity to do that. But, as my mods are for the "cheating" AI, I would re-load all the defaults against a human, with perhaps the exception of the Wall and road multiplier. My brother who lives in Oz is coming over later this year, and we're going to try having a bash against each other, so it will be fun to see what that is like.Thoxic
I know what you mean! I REALLY hate that one. I'm in a game now where I'm flat out building SDI. But I can guarantee that the only cities that will get nuked will be miles from any AI and be the only 1 in a bunch that DOESN'T have the SDI built yet!
I think the AI uses its knowledge of what I have where (since it IS the computer, after all) to blitz the unprotected cities. Talk about insider trading!! Don't foget tho, that a nuke DOES have a range of 16, and subs / carriers can carry them. So, it IS poss that the AI could park a sub or carrier of your shore somewhere and clobber a city well in-land. It still remains tho that the AI DOES know which of our cities are not defended - what a crock!islandboy
Chieftain
Duke
Further to your earlier comment about the howitzer vs musket - I've lost many a howitzer on King level to a stupid musketeer on a mountain in a fortress - haven't you? I remember once attacking a militia fortified on a mountain pass I need to get through. He had no fortress. I wasted at least 2 stealth bombers and a couple of howitzers. Man was he tough! Got him with a cruise in the end. How silly is that, though? Imagine, me standing on a mountain top waving a stick at a B2 dropping bunker-buster ordinance, and I manage to shoot the thing down! Is that stupid, or what?:crazyeyes I must've stuffed the stick into the engine intakes as the pilot swooped low past me at zero feet...
Further to your earlier comment about the howitzer vs musket - I've lost many a howitzer on King level to a stupid musketeer on a mountain in a fortress - haven't you? I remember once attacking a militia fortified on a mountain pass I need to get through. He had no fortress. I wasted at least 2 stealth bombers and a couple of howitzers. Man was he tough! Got him with a cruise in the end. How silly is that, though? Imagine, me standing on a mountain top waving a stick at a B2 dropping bunker-buster ordinance, and I manage to shoot the thing down!
Is that stupid, or what?:crazyeyes I must've stuffed the stick into the engine intakes as the pilot swooped low past me at zero feet...
duke o' york
It don't mean a thing....
Whatever you do kids, don't try that at home!
If you do, ask a parent to fly the F117A for you!
One of my favourite ways to take out people who are fortified in mountain fortresses is simple. Ignore them and take their home city! Ping! Where'd they go?
The nuke trick is a particularly irksome one though. As Starlifter once demonstrated to the wonder of all the Civfanatics, the AI does not have to fly the nukes at all. They just turn up in your cities and go bang. It can tell which cities have SDI in and avoid wasting its nukes on them. This can back fire on the AI rather handily and amusingly however.
The range of an SDI is three squares and so it is possibly to build a size 1 city in between 2 or more of your more important ones and stick an SDI in there so that it protects them all without having to build individual ones. The AI will throw missile after missile at the "unprotected" cities, which will all be shot down by the little city's SDI, as it targets cities that don't have SDI, rather than cities not covered by another's SDI umbrella.
If you do, ask a parent to fly the F117A for you!
One of my favourite ways to take out people who are fortified in mountain fortresses is simple. Ignore them and take their home city! Ping! Where'd they go?
The nuke trick is a particularly irksome one though. As Starlifter once demonstrated to the wonder of all the Civfanatics, the AI does not have to fly the nukes at all. They just turn up in your cities and go bang. It can tell which cities have SDI in and avoid wasting its nukes on them. This can back fire on the AI rather handily and amusingly however.
The range of an SDI is three squares and so it is possibly to build a size 1 city in between 2 or more of your more important ones and stick an SDI in there so that it protects them all without having to build individual ones. The AI will throw missile after missile at the "unprotected" cities, which will all be shot down by the little city's SDI, as it targets cities that don't have SDI, rather than cities not covered by another's SDI umbrella.
Ren
Communist Nazi
I couldn't be bothered reading through 209 posts so I don't know if anyone else has seen this before, I'll start at the beginning. I wanted to ally with the Vikings (on Prince) so I sent an emissary and the first think he said was effectively "Give me Gunpowder or else" no as he is quite more powerful than me I gave it to him, this made his attitude 'neutral'. I proposed an alliance and to my great shock, his demand to sign the alliance was Gunpowder! I gave it to him again and the alliance was settled (It was cancelled later because I wouldn't give him Monotheism as I really needed Michelangelo's Chapel and he would've beaten me to it if I gave him the knowhow.)
broman
Chieftain
1 The AI does not learn from unsuccesfull attacts.
2 AI Attacts are randoma and to predictable.
3 A (stealth) bomber combined with a mech. inf. is invincible, the AI will kill all its fighters on it and gives you the chance to succesfully defend your tanks or howitsers in an attact.
4 Before you capture a city, take all surrounding squares so no partisants will appear.
5 In a democracy you sometimes have to accept peace everytime you capture a city, even when you know the AI will attact you again in a couple of years.
2 AI Attacts are randoma and to predictable.
3 A (stealth) bomber combined with a mech. inf. is invincible, the AI will kill all its fighters on it and gives you the chance to succesfully defend your tanks or howitsers in an attact.
4 Before you capture a city, take all surrounding squares so no partisants will appear.
5 In a democracy you sometimes have to accept peace everytime you capture a city, even when you know the AI will attact you again in a couple of years.
monkeyman116
Warlord
When you bombard a phalnax with a Battleship, the battleship is damaged, right, even if only very slightly? How can this be? OK, the ship attacks a little group of men onshore, but how can it fight back? Are they all going to jump into the water with their knives or something and try to attack the ship? It makes no sense to me.
monkeyman116
Warlord
I read this entire thread! Christ, this is long!
Ren
Communist Nazi
Originally posted by monkeyman116
When you bombard a phalnax with a Battleship, the battleship is damaged, right, even if only very slightly? How can this be? OK, the ship attacks a little group of men onshore, but how can it fight back? Are they all going to jump into the water with their knives or something and try to attack the ship? It makes no sense to me.
Well not so much the case in Civ 2, but often in Civ 1 a phalanx would beat a battleship on defence!
thoxic
Chieftain
It is not really a cheat but a silly bug
It is true that Ai asks for the same tech advance if we want to ally.
This happens when Ai asks for some knowledge for peace first,
I don't know how to supress this,I didn't notice it when
I was playing Civ II classic.So it may be a bug in gold version?
Anyway if Ai asks for some already-given techs then
we can offer him it twice if that can help us.
Moreover I've seen people who encounters difficulties beating the AI in more difficult level than King .To those I would say
that they are not enough expansionistic,NO TRICKS ARE NEEDED TO WIN (not even the caravan tricks),AI is too weak.
The best level of the game is Emperor cause Ai gets the same
bonus as you:cilivization as a sense when you face AI!!
For the people who want to get rid off militias or phalanxes fortified in mountains:the spy sabotage.
In one turn with two spies and whatever the unit is,his health is reduced to 1 Hit point.Then you use an attacking unit,the first damage done,the boring unit die.
To conclude I would say that I hate when the AI interrupts
our alliance as soon as we refuse to give the latest tehcs advances found by our civ.Europeans hadn't cancelled
their alliance with USA when they knew americans had Nuclear power
AI CHEATS
It is true that Ai asks for the same tech advance if we want to ally.
This happens when Ai asks for some knowledge for peace first,
I don't know how to supress this,I didn't notice it when
I was playing Civ II classic.So it may be a bug in gold version?
Anyway if Ai asks for some already-given techs then
we can offer him it twice
if that can help us.Moreover I've seen people who encounters difficulties beating the AI in more difficult level than King .To those I would say
that they are not enough expansionistic,NO TRICKS ARE NEEDED TO WIN (not even the caravan tricks),AI is too weak.
The best level of the game is Emperor cause Ai gets the same
bonus as you:cilivization as a sense when you face AI!!
For the people who want to get rid off militias or phalanxes fortified in mountains:the spy sabotage.
In one turn with two spies and whatever the unit is,his health is reduced to 1 Hit point.Then you use an attacking unit,the first damage done,the boring unit die.
To conclude I would say that I hate when the AI interrupts
our alliance as soon as we refuse to give the latest tehcs advances found by our civ.Europeans hadn't cancelled
their alliance with USA when they knew americans had Nuclear power
AI CHEATS
Holdway
Chieftain
The AI never transforms terrain, even if it's engineers have Done everything possible on an island they never turn mountains into hills or dessert to plains:crazyeyes
Ren
Communist Nazi
Yeah, and they don't transform tundra either, which sucks because I have to do it myself 
smegged
Psi Cop
AFAIK these haven't been mentioned.
1) I noticed this one playing an OCC. Basically, if you have units within two squares of an enemies city, they will ask you to withdraw (when you are at peace). This wouldn't normally be a problem. The problem happens when the units are actually fortified in your own city radius, on squares that are being worked by your own workers. This is so damn annoying, and you have to move your units back into place every four turns or so.
2) I have found a way of effectively pillaging an ally/peaceful civs improvements. Build engineers and mine all of their irrigated grassland It's especially fun in OCCs when you have supportless engineers. And it starves down the ai cities to boot 
this is quite a huge thread now
1) I noticed this one playing an OCC. Basically, if you have units within two squares of an enemies city, they will ask you to withdraw (when you are at peace). This wouldn't normally be a problem. The problem happens when the units are actually fortified in your own city radius, on squares that are being worked by your own workers. This is so damn annoying, and you have to move your units back into place every four turns or so.
2) I have found a way of effectively pillaging an ally/peaceful civs improvements. Build engineers and mine all of their irrigated grassland
It's especially fun in OCCs when you have supportless engineers. And it starves down the ai cities to boot this is quite a huge thread now
Elfstone
Chieftain
That is truly the solution
