[GS] Livestreamer Previews Discussion Thread

Aurelesk said:
It all depends how much Industrial Zone you are willing to put in your civilization. For the players that put them only in key cities for the aura bonus, therefore Coal Power will have not a long term use, just for early Power.
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I am happy they seem to have boosted the plant aura from their initially shown +1/+2 nerf of the IZ; But, adding the shipyard effect to coal plants and only coal plants seems like a blunder. Why use that effect at all on the bottom tier? The entire idea of oil and nuclear getting better is that oil will be a very valuable military resource, as will uranium- so unlike coal you're really choosing between economy and military. But civs that place even decent IZs get such lopsided benefits from coal plants. I'm not sure how they work out the power generation- does oil get priority over coal? Can I power everything with uranium and keep the coal plants up? Do I need to be burning fuel to get the auras? (I'm more inclined to think nuke supersedes oil's aura and won't stack with it.)

Because Dutch will be seeing minimum +4 prod from any IZ on a river if they put down a coal plant. Germany can just stick the needed aura plants in weaker Hansas (like the ones at +10) and drop BAGGER 288 COAL POWERED FURY into the central monster +24 hansas.

(If you go with Technocracy the free power per city covers the factory penalty anyways. The fact that factories have no utility if you're already in factory coverage, and thus a waste of 2 power, is precisely why I think the shipyard effect should have been placed here instead, since there seems to be more of a game around what plants go where. Even if factory adj was gated behind the power load.)
 
Have we noticed this "theming bonus" for broadcast centers (even with only 1 slot)? From 35' in quill's new stream. It's "2/3" under the slot for Saint John, but still nothing for the others.
 
Disgustipated said:
AI does build GDR. There was no reason to think it wouldn't, but figured I would show it off. Of course this same leader also built like 10 supply convoys. I guess Dido figured GDR would need lots of supplies. :D


Results of Quill's latest Diplo vote. Went better this time. I think the AI doesn't really try to seriously vote against until he reaches 8. I think he was at 7 before (not sure where it shows it other than the victory screen). This time they voted like they did in the past, mostly for themselves except for Cyrus.
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Interesting - didn't they add a new late game agenda for essentially someone to prevent another civ winning? I wonder if Cyrus has that.
 
Sostratus said:
I am happy they seem to have boosted the plant aura from their initially shown +1/+2 nerf of the IZ; But, adding the shipyard effect to coal plants and only coal plants seems like a blunder. Why use that effect at all on the bottom tier? The entire idea of oil and nuclear getting better is that oil will be a very valuable military resource, as will uranium- so unlike coal you're really choosing between economy and military. But civs that place even decent IZs get such lopsided benefits from coal plants. I'm not sure how they work out the power generation- does oil get priority over coal? Can I power everything with uranium and keep the coal plants up? Do I need to be burning fuel to get the auras? (I'm more inclined to think nuke supersedes oil's aura and won't stack with it.)

Because Dutch will be seeing minimum +4 prod from any IZ on a river if they put down a coal plant. Germany can just stick the needed aura plants in weaker Hansas (like the ones at +10) and drop BAGGER 288 COAL POWERED FURY into the central monster +24 hansas.

(If you go with Technocracy the free power per city covers the factory penalty anyways. The fact that factories have no utility if you're already in factory coverage, and thus a waste of 2 power, is precisely why I think the shipyard effect should have been placed here instead, since there seems to be more of a game around what plants go where. Even if factory adj was gated behind the power load.)
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Agreed. As I’ve said, I can see some tweaking around Factories and the Powerplants hopefully in the (inevitable) 30 day patch.

Giving Factories the adjacency buff would also be a needed buff for Japan’s Electronics Factory, and would of course just buff the IZ all around.
 
Regarding the diplomatic victory discussion, it seems like diplomacy will join religion as a victory condition that's only feasible because of a semi-cooperative AI. There's no reason for any civ to ever vote A unless they think they have a chance both of winning the vote and of actually using the awarded points to win the game. This is likely to describe a small enough minority of civs that pushing through A 4 or 5 times (plus however many it takes to cancel out all the votes you lose to B) should be next to impossible in the relevant time frame. I do appreciate that the AI starts strategically voting against civs that get within a vote or two of winning, but there's no strategic reason they should be so cooperative in letting things get even that far.

Another thing I noticed in Quill's playthrough is that there don't seem to be any future era great people, which means that the supply can be depleted fairly early (even more so than in the current game). This is a bit disappointing as it's a major mechanic that will stop working as the game approaches what should theoretically be its climax. Obviously, this is a choice that makes sense in flavor terms (since we don't know who the great people of the future era will be), but I'd prefer if they created some great person abilities based on the late game mechanics and assigned them arbitrary names (perhaps randomly chosen using the spy lists).
 
The aircraft carrier no longer requires oil. (It did during one of the Firaxis livestreams).

Another new agenda: Expansionist (Quill18, Canada #11, 6:22)

Yeah, it's new. It seems so familiar, yet I can't find it located in current sources.

Haha. There's a little zamboni running around the Ice Hockey Rink.

You get era score for your first solar farm.

World Ideology: vote to add or subtract a wildcard slot from a government type. (44:20)
 
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Someone needs to check to see if Mali is bugged, production-wise. 20 turns for a scout seems extreme.
 
Pietato said:
Someone needs to check to see if Mali is bugged, production-wise. 20 turns for a scout seems extreme.
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In Marbozir's Mali gameplay:

City was making 3.1 production on the first turn (+1 city, +2 copper hill, +0.1 amenities) with -30% production boost to units, his scout would take 20 turns.

Without Mali's negative it would take 30/3.1= 9.677 or 10 turns for a typical scout in that city.

With Mali's negative it should take 30/(3.1*.7)= 13.824 or 14 turns

This leads me to think the malus is more than 30% production.

If we double Mali's production penalty it takes 30/(3.1*.4)= 24.193 or 25 turns.

It doesn't seem like the game is doubling the production malus with that example.

After playing around with the numbers, Civ 6 seems to handle Mali's negative production like this:

30/ (( 3.1 x.7) x.7)= 19.749 turns

This is not exactly doubling the malus (49%) but it far exceeds -30% production stated in Mali's description. I'm not sure if this has been fixed within the most up-to-date version of GS, but the press release certainly has a huge bug for Mali.
 
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@NegativeZero: I haven’t seen the stream nor do I have time for it now.

Hence just a question: was the actual production shown or do you have only the worked tiles as reference?
Because if it is the later, remember that Mali has also a reduction of mine yields. The production therefore wouldn’t be 3.1 but 2.1 and 20 turns for a scout would be the correct result.
 
Scouts only cost 10 production so if you're producing one in 20 turns that's only 0.5 production/turn. Base production is 1 iirc so the only way to lose that much production early on must be with the bugged malus (otherwise Mali would contribute 0.7 production/turn and build the scout in 14 turns).

Essentially, it's mathematically impossible it isn't bugged unless I've missed something.

Edit: I'm an idiot.
 
Deggial said:
I haven’t seen the stream nor do I have time for it now.

So just a question: was the actual production shown or do you have only the worked tiles as reference?
Because if it is the later, remember that Mali has also a reduction of mine yields. The production therefore wouldn’t be 3.1 but 2.1 and 20 turns for a scout would be the correct result.
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The acctual production was shown from the city panel before ending the turn when starting the scout. Marbozir has no improvements and his city was producing 3.1 production.

@Legacy of Smiles Scouts cost 30 production in civ 6
 
Concerning the carriers, probably because the airplanes themselves will cost oil maintenance, so you will essentially be penalized two times for using a carrier ship. They can go for uranium as a required resource, as nowadays not many of the big ships run on any carbon fuel.
 
NegativeZero said:
The acctual production was shown from the city panel before ending the turn when starting the scout. Marbozir has no improvements and his city was producing 3.1 production.

@Legacy of Smiles Scouts cost 30 production in civ 6
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So it is bugged. The production negative is applying twice (70% x 2 = 49%), meaning Mali build at 49% speed. Gamekilling bug.

How exactly did they miss this? Did anyone there actually play Mali?
 
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