Lizardmen or Dwarves

[Sarisin]

I think many of us might choose the dungeon event where you get to choose to side with the Lizardmen or Dwarves to be your favorite. I know I really love getting it - the earlier the better.

So, who do you choose and why?

I take the Lizard guys every time because of their exploring skill which I think it vital in the early game. They can go up against any animal on the map, and, if you are lucky to get Animal Husbandry early on, you have a great chance of building that Grand Menagerie. Also, I find that when I use them to explore other dungeons I seem to get decent results - you gotta love those poisoned blades!

One consideration for me, though, is where the dungeon is - which units will get a terrain advantage as often the ones you side against will attack. But, I have found just as often they will move on and ignore you.

Pick your poison: Lizardmen or Dwarves.

One more thing: I still think there is a bug associated with upgrading whatever you choose if your race isn't Lizardfolk or Dwarves. My Lizardmen upgrade to my race's Rangers, but retain their Lizard race.

 

[heisenberg]

This is really situational for me--depending on how far into the game I'm currently at, and whether there are very nearby rivals which I would like to take out early.

I picked the Dwarves since I pick them most of the time

As you mentioned Sarisin, the lizzy hunters are awesome early on especially when you intend to omit the entire recon line. (which I do so pretty often, since their only economic use is for hunting camps)
They would be the only chance for me to capture some early animals to cage for some small happiness boosts (you'd still have to be very very lucky to get the Grand Menagerie though)

However on the other hand, if I already found a rival civ that might limit my expansion, and its still very early in the game where those axemen are very strong, I would pick them.
Its pretty easy to grab some XP on the axemen just like the hunters, and early on pre-bronze, axemen with combat III, shock II can pretty efficiently destroy garrisoned warriors not on hilltops.
Not to mention your point about keeping their race during upgrades, dwarven double movement in hills are much more useful than lizardkin's slight jungle bonus.
It does make sense that they retain their race promotion definitely--you don't expect a lizardkin hunter to suddenly turn human do you?
Also that in practically every game would I head for iron working--thus letting you upgrade those axemen (if they're alive still they would definitely be highly leveled)
Not so for the recon line--hunters are usually a dead-end for me.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

I usually go with the Lizardmen for the recon skills (and as noted, if you have Animal Husb, it doesn't take too long for them to get Animal Handling and they're significantly better at capturing wild animals than Scouts.

If I pop the Dungeon quite near me (although I try to avoid popping lairs near my starting position, barring the ones that pop Lizardmen which drive me/my workers nuts), I might choose the Axemen if I don't have enough city defenders to feel comfortable with 3 barb Axemen coming my way, or just choose "Stay out of it".

 

[MacGyverInSpace]

I pick the dwarves. Leveled up against a few barbs they snagged me a city on a crowded continent, and helped get what would be a first in a long line of mana vassals. (It was sweet - the Amurites were stuck with 4 mountain tiles in their BFC - still I wish they could work the tiles that I couldn't...

That and the fact that I didn't know you could get lizard men - at least when I tried it as Khazad.

 

[Blackmantle]

Dwarves more often. The possibility to get superior movement on hills is hefty. Far easier to maneuver the early-game rough landscape with them...

But its not exclusive. In the right conditions, i very well might chose the Lizardmen. (Animal Husbandry in reach as mentioned would be a serious reason to pick the Lizards...)

 

[Darksaber1]

It's relly up to time-of-game for me, as well as location, but I usually pick the Dwarves.
(Oh, and the reason Lizardman Graphics to to Normal ranger, is because Lizardman is a UU for the Clan and Barbs)

 

[Caradoc]

Ok, a followup question: At the end of the turn you are going to have two of your chosen allies versus three of the opponents. Which gives you the better odds of coming out of it with some allies intact? (Figure the Lair is neither on a Hill or Jungle.)

 

[Saytr]

I pick dependinhg on my civilization.

I prefer dwarves, because with about 5- 7 warriors they can usually take down any non- Doviello neighbour with ease.

Dwarves are also great explorers because of their double hill movement and great defense on hills.

 

[Kael]

I dont have a preference here, other than to say for a design perspective this is my favorite explore lair result.

 

[Amerigo Arturo]

I would say this is my second favorite, the adventurer one is number one for me. I always pick dwarfs, unless I'm playing as dwarfs. If They live long enough, I usually promote them to top tier ranks, adds flavor to have a couple dwarfs running around the empire.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

I dont have a preference here, other than to say for a design perspective this is my favorite explore lair result.

It's one of my favourites from a design perspective too. I'm not so big a fan of the "Awesomely good" or "Awesomely bad" range of things you can get (as has been brought up numorous times in other threads, insta-deaths are easy to get from lairs). This event is one where you get a Good with a Bad, or you elect to not take any involvement (maintain status quo as it were). It's a strategic choice, rather than a luck thing.

 

[KillerClowns]

The lizards.
Recon in invariably my weak point, and anything that enhances that is good in my pick.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Lizards. Strength 5, 2 move is better than strength 5, 1 move.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I tend to pick the dwarves a little more often, but only slightly. I usually prefer my recon units to be built in Council of Esus cities, for obvious reasons. I've also gotten lucky a few times and had the dwarven unit get the even that gives it the enchantment promotion, which open up the repair spell.

Most of the time though, none of them survive no matter which one I pick.

 

[TheJopa]

I voted dwarves, but result was, at the time 22/22 - a tie! So brilliant job, team!

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Dwarves if I have metal, Lizards if I don't. So usually dwarves.

Even with metal, the lizards are a bit stronger out of the gate... except that they tend not to upgrade to useful units while the dwarves do. I won't give up a big amount of early strength for that but I'll give up a small one.

 

[jprc]

I always pick up the dwarves, simply because I am not fond of lizards!!
Living in Africa, I always have at night a couple of them falling from the ceiling on my bed and/or head!... and even if they are nice (they eat malaria-charged mosquitos!), they are a bit boring: as soon as they fall on the bed, they are so scare than they go deep in the bed and I find myself chasing them between the sheets!!...

 

[Sarisin]

It's relly up to time-of-game for me, as well as location, but I usually pick the Dwarves.
(Oh, and the reason Lizardman Graphics to to Normal ranger, is because Lizardman is a UU for the Clan and Barbs)

Yeah, I get that Normal Ranger bit, but then shouldn't the unit lose its 'Lizard Skills?' It just seems strange to me to see an Illian Ranger, for example, with that Lizard icon in the promotion box.

As I said, I don't often take the Dwarven Axemen, but I wonder if they lose those 'Dwarven Skills' when they are promoted to, say, Elven Champions? I'm guessing no. Wouldn't it make more sense for them to gain the Elven Skills and lose the Dwarven Skills once they are upgraded to the Champions?

Or, could you have an Elven Champion with both Elven AND Dwarven Skills?!!

 

[Sarisin]

Ok, a followup question: At the end of the turn you are going to have two of your chosen allies versus three of the opponents. Which gives you the better odds of coming out of it with some allies intact? (Figure the Lair is neither on a Hill or Jungle.)

That is really hard to answer, Caradoc, as the AI behavior once you hit ENTER is inconsistent. I have had them simply move away leaving you with 3 units. I have had them attack and kill all 3 of my units. Usually, though, I am left with 2 of 3, unless my original unit that did the exploring is very strong and manages to kill all 3 of the Lizardmen or Axemen.

Again, as you mentioned, the terrain IS a big factor and can be the determinant whether I take the Lizardmen or the Dwarven Axemen.

 

[Sarisin]

It's one of my favourites from a design perspective too. I'm not so big a fan of the "Awesomely good" or "Awesomely bad" range of things you can get (as has been brought up numorous times in other threads, insta-deaths are easy to get from lairs). This event is one where you get a Good with a Bad, or you elect to not take any involvement (maintain status quo as it were). It's a strategic choice, rather than a luck thing.

I definitely agree with your point, Micky!

Honestly, I might prefer those dungeon crawls that yield me a GP, a religion-founding unit, or that Adventurer. But, those are pure luck. This dungeon event does give you the chance to make a strategic choice as you said, and it is obvious from the results of this poll that it is a real crowd-pleaser.

Definitely appreciated, Kael, and more events like this would be most welcome!