LK102, Deity, RaR, just win.

[T_McC]

Well ... I was thinking about self-research on my turns after the worker rushes had been completed. Abe kind of stuck a spanner in those works and forced us to run 20-30% higher lux than we would have otherwise for the duration of the war. There went the majority of our capacity to self-research.

It is also likely a problem of being too used to The Great Library in straight Civ III. Until you've played this mod a lot you don't expect to self-research while you hold the free-tech wonder. We just got bogged down because the Iro and Aztecs were apparently devoting the entirety of their economies to buying from the Indians and never researched anything for themselves. If the AI is only going to be able to buy once or twice every 20 turns the free-tech wonders aren't that helpful, except for allowing a significant amount of short-rushing.

 

[Greebley]

I thought wall street gave 50% of your commerce? If so wall st is only worth 1/2 the number of gold in a city. Our highest gold city is the IP one which only has some 4 gold squares.

Unless I am getting something wrong, wall st would be 30 and only that many if we build it in the IP city which we didn't

 

[T_McC]

All told what Romeo apparently built is worth +150% taxes in Gao. At pop 15 the city probably pulls ~45 trade per turn, so it could be worth ~70 gpt at 100% taxes.

Two free techs would be worth about 10K, however, in terms of taxes we'd have to forego to research them, assuming 3 turns each at 100% research.

 

[Greebley]

I still feel we should build a laborer off our bigger towns that are at max food. We have a long way to go to improve our cities. A single turn doesn not seem a long time to spend to get our cities up in shield count.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Greebley, the bigger towns you're referring to make like 2 spt...
We have about 5 productive core cities, and those are all occupied with units and small wonders or crucial city imps (like we have no Bank in the IP city).

The reason why I was a bit upset about the lack of City Planning is that I already had research Sanitation halfways in my last set. Obviously, that research was dumbed for nothing.
I fully understood the war issues, and that this required to turn down reseach/ aim for other techs. And the luxury/anarchy issues.
But, Sanitation as monopoly tech would have allowed us to trade for one tech (Steel?) at least, thus a single Scientist would have almost sufficed to bring City Planning by now .
Our commerce and even research situation isn't that bad.
But our production sucks big times. Our SP city has like 8 food surplus. We have no city with more than 160spt. In fact, we only have 3 cities above 100spt...

And, build orders were pretty odd IMHO. Why would you build a CH in a city that already has a Counselor+Local Court as only imps? A CH in that case NEVER makes sense before a Forge.
Hospitals before Coal Plants if the city already has a Factory is another nonsense IMHO (Hospitals have other benefits, making them a good choice in general - but not to get up production).

 

[romeothemonk]

I chose Hospitals as I thought that we would want to do our own research shortly, and they provide a research and a production boost.
On the CH builds, I was wondering if we wanted to invest the time and gpt of production boosters, or just improve the amount of gold we received by lower corruption. The lower corruption method seemed like a good plan to me.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I think you're overestimating the effects of a CH. Those cities were completely corrupt; thus, with the 2 reducers already in place, the city is capped at 70% corruption. A CH for 60sp will only give another 10% more commerce - but, a Forge means to get a Bazzar/Port in half the time = 35% more commerce .
And, you can fight waste better than corruption anyway; thus, you get up the Forge pretty soon (in WltKD).

Coal Plant = +50% production for 320sp
Hospital = +25% production, + 50% research for 400sp (plus Granary/BMed, of course, which do not apply here)
Both have their places, but in the two cities that I refer to wasted shields for the Hospital first, while we'd get it in 3 turns with the Coal Plants.
Still, that does only make sense when you're heading to City Planning.

Note aside from those minor issues, I have nothing to comment for the cities. I'm just more and more tired to inherit almost any RaR game with 3500+ cash, and core cities without Granaries and the like.

 

[LKendter]

Well I feel so many of our problems were because we grabbed science cheat 2. Without it we would have taken care of things ourselves a long time ago for research ...

 

[Greebley]

Thats why I wanted TOE. To grab sanitiation so we could then trade it around. If we managed to get Steel or whatever the Prereq for for City planning we could have gotten City planning as well.

 

[LKendter]

Looking for signs of process from Doc. It is over 48 hours.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Sorry for the slight delay, the upload server was down last night.

Mali, 1400AD
Turns 1 to 6 were hours of tedious MM with little reward, and fiddling with happiness.

Turn 7: 1435AD
Peace with India.
IBT:
ToE done; pick City Planning. Use TBP to sell Sanitation to India for 2800gp. Buy IntComb for City Planning and 3800gp. Pick Mass Production.

Yikes, India is up at least 10 techs…we’ve really fuelled Ghandi’s research.

Turn 8: 1440AD
Investigate Kohapur: Needs 14 turns for the Crystal Palace. Switch FPVille from BMed to that one, due in 8.
Start the rewarding MM; those forests are a huge boost in productivity.

Summery:

Researched Sanitation and Steel, traded for IntComb, and got City Planning + Mass Production from the ToE.

Started the Winter Palace in Memphis; feel free to change this. Our better cities with growth potential should get a Sewer, IMHO.
Crystal due in 6, Tomb due in 5, WP due in 6, BMed in 8.
AutoWeapons in 2 at slight deficit. Better keep the 20% Lux; the WltKDs helped a lot with waste.

Didn’t build more than a couple of units (Leathernecks mostly, we had none). Cavs and Artillery will suffice against Aztecs, but we want MGs and Trenchers.
Upgraded two Clippers so far (isn't that expensive).

We have deals with Iros and India (peace treaty); so, Monty is the natural target. Unfortunately he still has a MPP with India, but that one should expire soon.

52/68 land/pop.
Noticed I forgot culture in Dallas, please fix that; sorry.

The Save
I'd be really surprised if I see this one again...

 

[romeothemonk]

Nice work Doc.
I think we are ready to go charging headlong into the fray when the MPP is up, which should be around turn 3.
Not sure if we need the tomb, but we will take it, lower WW is a good thing.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Yes, and there wasn't that much left worth building; that city makes ~150sp, so Cavs and Ari were no option anyway.

One clarification: The peace treaty with India was a straight deal (I swapped WMs, but would have gotten it without as well). So there was no intention of sneaking out of a deal via the MPP.

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
T_McC (on deck)
Greebley
Romeothemonk
Doc Tsiolkovski

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

 

[LKendter]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK102-1500AD.zip

1450 AD
I am in a very strange situation. We are getting ready for the final domination push, but I have no troops building. I upgrade our 2 clippers to transports to give us sufficient carrying capacity. At $360 each I am not bothering with buckets.

Niamtougou and Dogondoutchi are formed to claim some remaining tiles in the homeland.

I am really not sure why we are building granaries in size 14 cities, but I leave them alone. I don't think this game will last long enough to justify sewers in these towns. For the most part the builds stay the same.

I really wish there was some way to confirm if the WLTK days really justify the 20% luxury tax. I would really like to speed up research. If only the fringe cities benefit, I would rather have a faster science rate.


1475 AD
Kano is formed on the island after planting forest in some tundra.
(IT) We have completed the Crystal Palace. The Winter Palace is also completed.
Indian completes Emancipation Proclamation.


1485 AD
(IT) India completes Universal Suffrage.



==========================

Summary:
We start at 98 laborers and ended with 114. I felt totally overwhelmed by the number of very high food cities that needed forest planted. It still doesn't feel close.

We now have 2 empty armies, and tanks are starting to be built. We should be ready to land within 10 turns, if that long.

The big question is do we stop research? IMO we have achieved the goals of forest planting and tanks.

Signed up:
LKendter
T_McC (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)
Romeothemonk
Doc Tsiolkovski

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

 

[romeothemonk]

Sounds good. I would continue research now, but focus all cities on military at this time. I.e. not increase our research rate, just use what we have.
I would consider reducing research to upgrade more buckets, just as Artillary can be that game breaking.
Then we give T_McC the keys to our newly polished and upgraded war machine and tell him to be back in 48 hours with the Aztecs finished off.

 

[LKendter]

Sounds good. I would continue research now, but focus all cities on military at this time.

We now have a handful of cities on permanent military duty. There are several tanks on the way. In addition, several more cities only have about 1 or 2 more production boosters needed to start building tanks.

 

[Greebley]

Getting to tanks is worthwhile at least. The higher defense is nice.

I would like to keep research going until then.

[Edit: Oh we do have tanks already? Not sure then without looking at the save. Probably doesn't matter either way. If TMcC doesn't win it then I think I will be able to get to the Domination limit. Unless anyone wants to go for Conquest?

 

[LKendter]

Getting to tanks is worthwhile at least. The higher defense is nice.

I would like to keep research going until then.

Uh, I already ordered up the first tanks...

 

[Greebley]

Added an edit. I got confused since you didn't list techs. Just the comment at the end that I misread.

As I stated above, this game will almost certainly end on TMcC's or my turns - unless TMcC goes for heavy infra or we are tied up in deals.

(TMcC, I would prefer no commitments on our side (but you know that) so we can end the game).