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LK102, Deity, RaR, just win.
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
I'm not going to play tonight, but I did take a quick look at the game.
The Inca will already pay us for peace, so I'm hoping we can be on defense vs. the Americans for the first 1/2 of the round, and then have build a sufficient force to go on offense vs. the Incans. If the Americans will take peace on my round I will pay them to go away. I am optimistic we can roll the Incans, as they should have already had their GA from the 1st Sioux war.
Did Crop Rotation come in on the last turn, or do we already have beakers invested in the next tech?
I'm not sure what happens if we capture the Great Library. I doubt it is as large a windfall as in C3C, but might as well try it and find out.
The Inca will already pay us for peace, so I'm hoping we can be on defense vs. the Americans for the first 1/2 of the round, and then have build a sufficient force to go on offense vs. the Incans. If the Americans will take peace on my round I will pay them to go away. I am optimistic we can roll the Incans, as they should have already had their GA from the 1st Sioux war.
Did Crop Rotation come in on the last turn, or do we already have beakers invested in the next tech?
I'm not sure what happens if we capture the Great Library. I doubt it is as large a windfall as in C3C, but might as well try it and find out.
The GLib will get us to education at least 
Ya, I don't think it will be huge to get it, but it will help pick up some techs and allow us to stay in the running. One thing that is nice is that it may then give us a shot at the Encyclopedia.
Ya, I don't think it will be huge to get it, but it will help pick up some techs and allow us to stay in the running. One thing that is nice is that it may then give us a shot at the Encyclopedia.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Don't rely on the GLib; IIRC it won't give you Absolutism and anything coming behind.
This won't be like C3C where we try to put all resources towards capturing the Great Library, expecting to achieve tech parity in one fell swoop. It is not the primary goal of the war.
But the Great Library is an incentive to hold the city for a turn, and even avoid researching Education if we think we're close to capturing the city, because we can expect to get some free tech out of it. A significant portion of the Med. Age tech tree does not require Education, we can't possibly research all of those techs before we could capture the Great Library in this war.
So it could be a reason to prolong the war, but we'll have to weigh expected gains vs. time required to advance the front that far. We'll just have to see when we can pay the Americans to go away, and how gassed the Incans actually are.
But the Great Library is an incentive to hold the city for a turn, and even avoid researching Education if we think we're close to capturing the city, because we can expect to get some free tech out of it. A significant portion of the Med. Age tech tree does not require Education, we can't possibly research all of those techs before we could capture the Great Library in this war.
So it could be a reason to prolong the war, but we'll have to weigh expected gains vs. time required to advance the front that far. We'll just have to see when we can pay the Americans to go away, and how gassed the Incans actually are.
I agree with that assessment, TMcC Even 3 or 4 techs can be worth some effort.
Doc, If I remember the rule right, if a tech has 2 prereqs you don't get iin one turn? (I am ignoring the "Music Theory case" rule)
Doc, If I remember the rule right, if a tech has 2 prereqs you don't get iin one turn? (I am ignoring the "Music Theory case" rule)
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
If we really want to be devious, the Americans should talk in 3-4 turns, and then we can be really evil. I would sign peace and an alliance against the Inca. The Inca would get RoP Raped by the Americans, and any spare forces would leave us alone to go whack the more vulnerable Americans.
Then with T_McC's careful planning and the manufacture of a small SoD (8-10 units), we can raze and replace 2-3 border cities and setup an assualt on the Great Library.
If it is taking us 9 turns to research a tech or so, even 1 free tech is a huge boon.
I also concur on getting a boat out ASAP. I would even cash rush it and go looking for the other continent. In Sana01 our continent was much more advanced and we found some wonderful trading partners across the sea.
Since we are committed to war for a while, I would go heavy war and try and get as much land as possible. With a commercial civ, the sheer number of cities is invaluable to research.
Then with T_McC's careful planning and the manufacture of a small SoD (8-10 units), we can raze and replace 2-3 border cities and setup an assualt on the Great Library.
If it is taking us 9 turns to research a tech or so, even 1 free tech is a huge boon.
I also concur on getting a boat out ASAP. I would even cash rush it and go looking for the other continent. In Sana01 our continent was much more advanced and we found some wonderful trading partners across the sea.
Since we are committed to war for a while, I would go heavy war and try and get as much land as possible. With a commercial civ, the sheer number of cities is invaluable to research.
LK102 - Malifornication
350 AD (0)
Usury does us no good as we don't have Gold (yet). Swap research to Fundamentalism, the Inquisitor is a better 60-shield unit than the Horse Archer.
Swap a few builds to waste less shields. Allow Barracks before Walls in Zinder. Might be a whip candidate.
IT - Still no attacks from the Americans.
360 AD (1)
Upgrade some workers, kill one Incan unit. Need to hold out 1 more turn to have Zinder be secure.
IT - There's rubble on the island, but I have no idea from what.
370 AD (2)
Fundamentalism in, might as well see if we have any Salt.
Where the Hell is Abe?
We whack another Incan unit and promote. Also pick up a slave. It's getting close to go-time against them, maybe two more turns.
Zinder now has 6 Pikes and 2 Cats in it, I suspect that will be sufficient against Abe's first wave.
380 AD (3)
Still, no Abe.
Get our first irrigated tile. Upgrading the slaves is putting a real burden on our economy.
Also have our first leader-fish, but no bites.
Have re-built our Catapult brigade on the Southern front (a pair), just in case the Sioux get any ideas.
390 AD (4)
I think we can attack next turn.
400 AD (5)
Weak loss of a Pike fortified in a Forest to an Inti, but what are you gonna do?
Alchemy in, on to Usury. We can build Markets without gold.
Oh, and of course we have no Saltpeter. Then change my mind and decide we need Engineering more than Usury, so Milling 1st.
Seriously, what is Abe doing? I think the Sioux bought him in against the Incans. Maybe he'll talk? Nope.
Set attack on Incan city of Quito. Also have a settler approaching in a stack. I think we're getting some WW, so buy Silver from the Sioux.
410 AD (6)
The fun begins! Elite HH wins. Vet HH wins ...
(lost the 1st picture.
)
This might be more fun than I originally thought.
Use the ill-gotten gains to bump science a notch.
420 AD (7)
Win, lose one on IT. Might make the next city attack a little hairy.
No losses later ...
Abe will talk, I pay him 140 gold to make him go away. He is at war with the Inca!
This one may not stop until Atahualpa is dead. (Or at least, off the continent.)
430 AD (8)
Found Dosso, starts a Counselor. City claims gold, and puts us two turns from Cuzco. In the previous two city attacks we gained 2 slaves and 6 workers, in addition to the cash. No MGL though.
IT - We get the FP message. I think this should be built in a city we haven't founded yet. :devil2:
440 AD (9)
Diffa pops a Hardy, who will go on to found our FP site.
450 AD (10)
Engineering in, and I pick ... Usury.
No combat occurs. Two moves/road really slows down a consolidation.
Final Notes:
Map in next picture depicts FP location, which we can found next turn. The Inca are gassed. We can pick our targets at will.
I put no Longboats in the water. I don't suspect we would be able to reach the other continent anyway. We may want to pop a settler out and build a city on the island rubble. Not much more useful than unit support and possible future resources, but what the hay.
350 AD (0)
Usury does us no good as we don't have Gold (yet). Swap research to Fundamentalism, the Inquisitor is a better 60-shield unit than the Horse Archer.
Swap a few builds to waste less shields. Allow Barracks before Walls in Zinder. Might be a whip candidate.
IT - Still no attacks from the Americans.
360 AD (1)
Upgrade some workers, kill one Incan unit. Need to hold out 1 more turn to have Zinder be secure.
IT - There's rubble on the island, but I have no idea from what.
370 AD (2)
Fundamentalism in, might as well see if we have any Salt.
Where the Hell is Abe?
We whack another Incan unit and promote. Also pick up a slave. It's getting close to go-time against them, maybe two more turns.
Zinder now has 6 Pikes and 2 Cats in it, I suspect that will be sufficient against Abe's first wave.
380 AD (3)
Still, no Abe.
Get our first irrigated tile. Upgrading the slaves is putting a real burden on our economy.
Also have our first leader-fish, but no bites.
Have re-built our Catapult brigade on the Southern front (a pair), just in case the Sioux get any ideas.
390 AD (4)
I think we can attack next turn.
400 AD (5)
Weak loss of a Pike fortified in a Forest to an Inti, but what are you gonna do?
Alchemy in, on to Usury. We can build Markets without gold.
Oh, and of course we have no Saltpeter. Then change my mind and decide we need Engineering more than Usury, so Milling 1st.Seriously, what is Abe doing? I think the Sioux bought him in against the Incans. Maybe he'll talk? Nope.
Set attack on Incan city of Quito. Also have a settler approaching in a stack. I think we're getting some WW, so buy Silver from the Sioux.
410 AD (6)
The fun begins! Elite HH wins. Vet HH wins ...
(lost the 1st picture.
)This might be more fun than I originally thought.
Use the ill-gotten gains to bump science a notch.
420 AD (7)
Win, lose one on IT. Might make the next city attack a little hairy.
No losses later ...
Abe will talk, I pay him 140 gold to make him go away. He is at war with the Inca!
This one may not stop until Atahualpa is dead. (Or at least, off the continent.)
430 AD (8)
Found Dosso, starts a Counselor. City claims gold, and puts us two turns from Cuzco. In the previous two city attacks we gained 2 slaves and 6 workers, in addition to the cash. No MGL though.
IT - We get the FP message. I think this should be built in a city we haven't founded yet. :devil2:
440 AD (9)
Diffa pops a Hardy, who will go on to found our FP site.
450 AD (10)
Engineering in, and I pick ... Usury.
No combat occurs. Two moves/road really slows down a consolidation.
Final Notes:
Map in next picture depicts FP location, which we can found next turn. The Inca are gassed. We can pick our targets at will.
I put no Longboats in the water. I don't suspect we would be able to reach the other continent anyway. We may want to pop a settler out and build a city on the island rubble. Not much more useful than unit support and possible future resources, but what the hay.
The Blue dot should be founded next turn and be pointed towards our FP. It can work up to 5 Mountains, including 2 with Sheep, plus 2 Hills. An absolute production and trade monster. Maybe Counselor - Slave Market - Forge - FP. A sheep mountain is giving 7 shields and two food, so at size 2 the blue dot can generate 17 base shields.
We can capture Supe. The red circle denotes the only visible Saltpeter on our continent. There is an unclaimed Salt on the island, but would require a severe cultural push against the Sioux city. It looks like it would take 2 Hardy Pioneers to correctly replace Supe, but we can do that at our leisure. Capturing the city also gives us a better opportunity to "steer" the Americans vs. the Incan cities to those we are less interested in.
The blue circle contains the Great Library. The red circle the Voyage of Discovery. I don't think we can get Navigation from the Great Library, so the VoD will be useful to contact the other continent.
I'm not sure we need many more Pikes. The Incans aren't threatening much lately. But I do think we should build a few more Cats as our front will be larger than 1-2 cities from here on out. Lots of MM possible now that we have irrigation and tile overlap between our cities.
We can capture Supe. The red circle denotes the only visible Saltpeter on our continent. There is an unclaimed Salt on the island, but would require a severe cultural push against the Sioux city. It looks like it would take 2 Hardy Pioneers to correctly replace Supe, but we can do that at our leisure. Capturing the city also gives us a better opportunity to "steer" the Americans vs. the Incan cities to those we are less interested in.
The blue circle contains the Great Library. The red circle the Voyage of Discovery. I don't think we can get Navigation from the Great Library, so the VoD will be useful to contact the other continent.
I'm not sure we need many more Pikes. The Incans aren't threatening much lately. But I do think we should build a few more Cats as our front will be larger than 1-2 cities from here on out. Lots of MM possible now that we have irrigation and tile overlap between our cities.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 19,651
This WAS an Incan city.
There was a method to my madness.
Well if we start capturing cities I don't want it to end until he is dead.
Signed up:
LKendter
T_McC
Greebley (currently playing)
Romeothemonk (on deck?)
(Skip May 7th to May 20th)
OPEN SLOT <-- Is anyone interested?
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
I got it.
I like the idea of eliminating the Incans. Any reasons not to?
I like the idea of eliminating the Incans. Any reasons not to?
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Care to expand?T_McC said:
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
They are an ancient and proud race, full of history and vitality. At one time they owned great portions of the world, and we must respect everyone else's culture and not be cruel or condescending to cultures we do not understand or agree with.Greebley said:
That said, I would hit them like a wrestler with a steel chair.
The reason not to is that a naval invasion right now would be a PITA. If we want to have a 40+ turn war vs. the Inca, we should be able to finish them off. It means spending our entire GA and then some building military (and eventually having to torque the economy due to WW), with a fair portion of time being spent capturing cities that won't be terribly productive for us.Greebley said:
If we want to do that we should start building boats now. It's a long float to get over there. Since we can't cash rush it will be very difficult to build the fleet in the ex-Incan coastal cities. The pigtown SW of Gao may be able to do 2-turn Longboats during the GA and our southernmost city may be able to contribute as well.
I'm not sure its worth the immediate effort. We will only capture 2-3 cities, and maybe 1 of them would be permanent. The Great Library city only has to be kept for 1 IT, then it can be torched (or bled out as workers/settlers). I'm advocating capturing the Saltpeter city temporarily to prevent any other civ from poaching the resource. It is not in a particularly good location, especially relative to our future FP. I just don't want to make the effort to build 2 Hardys to replace it right now. That city should be more of a flip-risk to Abe than Atahualpa. The only city we would want to capture permanently(?) would be the VoD city, and once we get Navigation that city can burn.
I haven't tried to dotmap the Incan territory but I suspect we will raze-and-replace the other cities. We could capture Knights Templar ... ehh.
Each unit has its purpose. The HA is good for accompanying a stack of Mali HH, since the AI can't count.Doc Tsiolkovski said:
For homeland defense the Inquisitor is better since it gets an extra HP. If I wanted defensive bombard on the homefront, I'd build 3 catapults instead of either of these things.
Greebley will probably think we have way too many Pikes. The American avalanche never materialized and the Incans only got to attack 1 Pike on the round, and that was outside a city. Looks to be an offensive round.
Check the length of the Alliance. If we want to exterminate the Inca we should re-up the Alliance with the Sioux, but hopefully pay them less (or nothing). The Inca are doing a masterful job of fighting a 3-front war and only losing ground to us.
AI!
I would go after the Saltpeter city 1st, I suspect the Americans will be lurking around there and we want that resource instead of them. Being the only one on the continent that can go beyond Pikes (before the mid-IA) will have its advantages. No one should be able to beat us to Cuzco or the Great Library. You have more than sufficient forces to hit someplace soon.
We are getting some infrastructure built. Although we don't have the tech yet, I might shy away from Markets in favor of Toll Houses. The extra 140 shields is a lot to pay for +50% lux. We will need to pop some settlers to re-found cities in Incan territory, so we can use "forcible relocation" as a means to control happiness without having to bump the lux tax for too many turns.
The American avalanche never materialized and the Incans only got to attack 1 Pike on the round, and that was outside a city. Looks to be an offensive round. Check the length of the Alliance. If we want to exterminate the Inca we should re-up the Alliance with the Sioux, but hopefully pay them less (or nothing). The Inca are doing a masterful job of fighting a 3-front war and only losing ground to us.
AI! I would go after the Saltpeter city 1st, I suspect the Americans will be lurking around there and we want that resource instead of them. Being the only one on the continent that can go beyond Pikes (before the mid-IA) will have its advantages.
No one should be able to beat us to Cuzco or the Great Library. You have more than sufficient forces to hit someplace soon.We are getting some infrastructure built. Although we don't have the tech yet, I might shy away from Markets in favor of Toll Houses. The extra 140 shields is a lot to pay for +50% lux. We will need to pop some settlers to re-found cities in Incan territory, so we can use "forcible relocation" as a means to control happiness without having to bump the lux tax for too many turns.
In RaR especially, I like capturing cities. The loss of population and the shields to build settler units is much higher. If we can save large numbers of shields and pop capturing, then it is worthwhile.
I think I will probably capture small cities and raze large wonderless cities. We can replace the Razes first and then later we can go back and replace the other cities when we have the settler unit if we so choose.
I guess if we can save 400+ shields and 14-21 populaltion by building a boat or two, it may very well be worth it.
I will have to see the game. The one thing I don't want to do is donate free land for Sioux settlers.
I think I will probably capture small cities and raze large wonderless cities. We can replace the Razes first and then later we can go back and replace the other cities when we have the settler unit if we so choose.
I guess if we can save 400+ shields and 14-21 populaltion by building a boat or two, it may very well be worth it.
I will have to see the game. The one thing I don't want to do is donate free land for Sioux settlers.
Heh. We may only need 1-2 boats. We lucked out and the Incan city on the peninsula is a 1-tile sail from the island. A Longboat can do 4 trips/turn.Greebley said:
We should probably build at least 4 boats, though. We don't want to get stuck with only 1 boatload/turn if the AI happens to occupy that 1 tile (either friend or foe).
The whole process can be sped up if the AI would help us out against the Sioux cities. I suspect that dam is about to burst.
