LK102, Deity, RaR, just win.

[Greebley]

I usually don't partial rush. I'll admit it is a powerful technique, but not one that has really entered my MM repertoire.

So I agree that we should switch Govts before Docs (and maybe TMcC's) turn

 

[T_McC]

Actually, I think the leader is best used on the IP in Tessaoua. Not a production monster, but will do fine with forest plants. We are missing a fair number of production boosters in the FP city and once those are completed the 770 shields for the MA won't be that daunting. We can already build Armies in Gao.

If we're going to revolt soon (and thus end the war) I guess we want to abandon and replace a couple of the captured Sioux towns?

And how does Cuzco have only Sioux citizens? The AI must be good the the starve and .

I think Counselors reduce flip risk the same way Courthouses do. There doesn't seem to be a separate flag for this in the editor, so our flip risks may be overstated.

 

[Greebley]

I sometimes have fumble fingers when I try to change a build. I think I remember trying to set that city to something reasonable, so if it is on something weird, it is likely I just fumble-fingered it.

If it was set to a beer hall, I blame government corruption. It wasn't me.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I think Counselors reduce flip risk the same way Courthouses do. There doesn't seem to be a separate flag for this in the editor, so our flip risks may be overstated.

If there is such a thing as a lower flip risks due to CHs, it should be related to the 'resistance to propaganda' flag.
And, in RAR, neither CH nor Counsellors have that flag - Newspapers do.
But, I agree with the MapStat flip risk calculations being pretty odd for RAR.
It's not like America has several times our culture; I cannot explain why the MapStat calculates such a high flip risk for Supe (VoD city with 3 Incans and distance 3 to the next Incan town had about half as much, and required a reasonable garrison).
In general, I tend to ignore the Crp proposals...

 

[romeothemonk]

We all have various reasons for disliking republic, but at the time it was a good choice of governments. I dislike republic for its crappy civ-specific building, the Philo school, manor and corporate offices are all much better.
I think I will sign a trade embargo rather than an alliance.
The name of the game is Just Win, and the sooner we clear our continet, the easier/faster the win. America has a ton of horse archers and not much else.
Will get to load and look at the game tonight.

 

[romeothemonk]

Ok, I have played 1.5 turns. I have captured Huari and allied the Americans. The one thing we are short on is muskets, and I will try to get a few more out in my set.
I will not finish today, maybe on Saturday, but it might take till Sunday. This will put me past my time limit. If you want, I can upload what I have, and then take a skip/swap, or if you are patient, I will try to do my best to get the best possible turns up in a short time.

 

[LKendter]

@Doc Tsiolkovski - what is your availibility?
I want to answer the Romeo question.

 

[Greebley]

Given that we are going for alliance and 20 yrs of war, I think we should follow my original plan of complete distruction of the Sioux which means we can capture some or all towns to save on the cost of settlers.

I don't think there will much troubles revolting mid-war once the Sioux are no longer a threat.

 

[LKendter]

Well it looks like Romeothemonk gets his delay since no comment from Doc...

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

All could say would be that I might be able to play today, and surely Sunday. My Sunday is just a couple of hours earlier than romeo's; so if he for sure can play Sunday, that's fine for me.

 

[romeothemonk]

IHT: Swap some builds to courts and Toll houses. I really dislike adventurers and swap all builds from them. America was trading the sioux something, so I just bought them in for Juris Prudence. Start research to ToE in 8.

IBT: lose 2 adventurers and 1 musket.
Turn 1: Upgrade some stuff, start killing bad guys. Capture Huari, promoting some of our units. I am sneaking in Infra, as we were building almost too much military.
IBT: Lose 1 Mali HH.
Turn 2: We learn perspective, Ship building, Nationalism. I really like our set of encyclopedias!! India just learned ToE this turn, will swap research. Research to industrialization, lower lux to 20%. Capture Lakota, promoting more troops. I start upgrading some troops as we can now upgrade muskets and such. I notice we do not have the central bank and I use all our gold. Will shut off research actually. Capture Lakota.
Turn 3: Kill most of the landing up on saltpeter Island, 1 1-hp pike remains, no towns threatened. ON the IBT I saw a Sioux D-bombard kill a redlined American Horse Archer. Rush the IP in Tessoua, kill some stuff, start advancing on more cities.
Turn 4: IP is in, still building toll houses and courthouses everywhere, trying to get our gpt up. Win a naval battle with a great Galleas, just trying to limit his ability to get around on the sea.
Turn 5: Capture Santee, lotsa resistors. I better get some more offense going here. Kill random crap, get an elite frigate, so we can build the naval academy. Kill loose offensive stuff, most of our core now has markets and toll houses, back to troops for a while then.
Turn 6: We learn Medicine. Our frigate wins again, another prize ship, and the Sioux are running low on boats. Start District court #1 in Diffa. America has a ton of units, but they are all crap units.
Turn 7: We learn ToE. Through some lucky RnG America takes a Sioux city, and will probably snag 2-3 more now. The good news is that they will have 3-4 fronts against us. The Human handles multiple fronts way better than the AI.
Turn 8: America builds the Great Lighthouse, we may be in trouble. Capture Ogala 12 resistors, hmm bummer. Capture Chan Chan just ahead of the Americans.
Turn 9: Our army got attacked and died. They will attack a Mali HH army with 6 or 7 hitpoints. The Sioux are not gassed yet as ~12 of those little man at arms guys are tooling around. See the Sioux have muskets, so I capture Sarcee on the Island finally, and the Sioux have no guano.
Turn 10: Capture Teton, and pop an MGL.

I think he should become the National gallery in Gao once the Hospital completes. The MGL is the only unmoved unit. I swap research to naval tactics, which is unknown.

The Good
1) I captured 8 towns from the Sioux.
2) I upgraded dang near everything that could be, (we have 1 great galleas and 1 pike left, but they should be done on the next players first turn.)
3) I got markets in our core along with Toll houses.
4) I popped 1 MGL to replace the 1 I used

The Bad
1) I lost more troops than I would normally like to.
2) I lost our army.
3) America got a city.
4) America's techrate is really picking up (They are now a republic)

I think we should be able to kill the Sioux in the next 10 and then turn on the Americans. The Americans have a ton of horse archers and cavaliers, and should collapse really quickly once the initial rush is over.
And some pics for some lurkers.





http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK102-1050AD.SAV

 

[LKendter]

LKendter (on deck)
T_McC (skip until May 25)
Greebley
Romeothemonk
Doc Tsiolkovski (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I have it .

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Mali, 1050AD

No clue why we’re improving tiles outside any cities’ radius…
Also, Engineers in starving cities are pointless.

What a horrible corruption! You are aware Republic has Despotism level here?

We indeed have happiness problems; dial up Abe and get 2 Luxes for Constituationalism and 4gpt. Not the very best deal if we go for him soon, but better than being forced to 3 Clowns in a semi-core city.
Industrialization is already known to 2 AIs, switch to Modern Legal System.

Enter.
IBT: America razes Yankton, nice. M-a-A kills our LI in the open, and the LI one the mountain barely defeats another one.
Industrialization comes in.

Turn 1: 1060AD
America was already working on Hunkpapa (only one healthy defender). Thanks again, Abe.

Turn 2: 1070AD
Yeah great, AI has Modern Legal. Self-research is almost pointless at this point; AI choices are too random. Try my luck with Sanitation.
Kill some stray Sioux.
IBT: Modern Legal comes in.

Turn 3: 1080AD
One Hussar short of taking Little Bighorn, grr.

Turn 4: 1090AD
Decide to use the MGL for the MilAc in Jenne. The free Army counts on during Anarchy.
This time, capture Little Bighorn, Gutenberg’s, 2 Slaves and 10 resisitors.
Nadouessioux, 8 resistors and a Treb.
Cotton and Olives have run out; do not renew the Cotton, but get Olives from Alex for two outdated techs.
IBT: America captures Nakota, and Sioux are OCC. Sioux and India sign embargo against us, oh well.
We complete the Military Academy. Indians complete Clausewitz’.

Turn 5: 1100AD
Approaching…
IBT: Naval tactics comes in from Science Cheat.

Turn 6: 1110AD
Attack Bear Butte without Ari support, since the Americans would grab it otherwise…and they deserved it. Cost me 2 Hussars, but Sun Tzu’s and the Sphinx are ours, FWIW.
Redistribute troops, and pull the trigger for Anarchy. Get Cotton from Iros before. 8 turns.
Yikes, we have 25% unhappiness from the Slave Markets…
IBT: Renew the Lux deal with Aztecs; have to throw in Jumbos.
Americans run back N.

Turn 7: 1120AD
Anarchy turn.
IBT: Steam Engine comes in. Tenochtitlan completes Bach’s.

Turn 8: 1130AD
Found Zuma, Yankton replacement. Nice city spot.

Turn 9: 1140AD
Zzz…
IBT: Social Darwinism comes in.

Turn 10: 1150AD

Ok, votes for the next Gov? I for one prefer ConMon.
Do not underestimate the American troops; they have oodles of units in their Sioux holdings.
India is up at least 5 techs, including High Explosives . Sanitation is still unknown.
Oglala would starve anyway; can as well hire Scientists.

Little Bighorn looks like a great Summer Place spot.

The Save

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
T_McC (on deck)
Greebley
Romeothemonk
Doc Tsiolkovski

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

 

[T_McC]

To deconstruct the gov't choices ... Cons. Mon vs. Fed Republic

Both 4 gpt/unit, CM will have essentially double the number of supported units. (2 for cities vs. 1 for FR). We have 21 towns and 22 cities, with 95 units. Unit support would thus be 208/turn in FR and 120/turn in CM, with support going down in CM as we build Aqueducts. We will also need to build a whole bunch of workers to lay rails. I count only about 9 natives and 36 slaves. That'll be good for ~4.5 flatland tiles/turn.

Both High WW.

FR has lower corruption than CM, for whatever difference Minimal makes vs. Nuisance.

For small wonders, the Magna Carta requires 1 city to spend 1200 shields, while the Supreme Court essentially requires 1 city to spend 840 shields and two others to invest 300 apiece. The advantage to the Supreme Court is that only 540 shields have to be built without the help of cash.

Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is a 2nd Suffrage, and thus is a waste of 1000 shields. War Monuments are very useful as they have the WW fighting ability of Police Stations.

The small wonder in Fed Republic are the 1000-shield Colossus equivalent, requiring 1050 shields of other buildings. The Statue of Liberty costs 1400 shields, and also replicates the WW-fighting of Suffrage ... and has the Colossus effect.

It seems the only argument one can make in favor of Constitutional Monarchy is that we're going to continue to wage unceasing war, and that the additional unit support (80 gpt and growing) and cheap WW fighters will be required. Unceasing war also means we would be unlikely to invest the 2000+ shields required for the Fed. Rep. SW.

I'd like to give Doc a chance to make an argument in favor of Cons. Mon, because I don't see the case.

In other news, Ghandi's doing great. Tech leader and no Iron or Coal. I might have to help a brother out, for a small donation of course.

 

[romeothemonk]

I like the Summer palace in the IP city.
I was really trying to reduce corruption and increase gold in my turnset.
Remember that we lack banks and more importantly the central bank. I like free gold.
I started 1 District court, and the SC should be built or even started in LK's turns.
I agree with T_McC on the Federal Republic. I really like federal republic.

 

[T_McC]

Bear in mind that the Magna Carta can be MGL-rushed, and the Supreme Court cannot. A mild argument in the plus column for Cons Mon, if we insist on fighting the Americans ASAP. I wouldn't be too excited to attack the Americans, they have a stack in our core that could wipe us out during the Anarchy. We have quite a few cities "defended" by Cannons.

At least we'll have 20 turns of the "consolidators" before Greebley hauls off and attacks someone.

The IP city is 1st ring to Gao. We should not build the Summer Palace there. I would consider the ex-Sioux city on our SW coast that can work 5-6 hills. I think it could be built there a lot faster than in Little Bighorn, and the primary benefit we need is a boost in the OCN, the sooner the better.

 

[Greebley]

There is also Abs Mon I think it is with only 2 gpt per unit.

I am a little worried about spending 4 gpt per unit and then building wonders that become useless if we switch.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

We have quite a few cities "defended" by Cannons.

At least we'll have 20 turns of the "consolidators" before Greebley hauls off and attacks someone.

The IP city is 1st ring to Gao. We should not build the Summer Palace there. I would consider the ex-Sioux city on our SW coast that can work 5-6 hills. I think it could be built there a lot faster than in Little Bighorn, and the primary benefit we need is a boost in the OCN, the sooner the better.

Hey, at least you got the game with a defender in every city .

IP city makes no sense for the SC. Little Bighorn in a highly productive city in the S, Gutenberg's, mountain/hill. Will be a really useful city with the SC. Did you confuse that with Bear Butte (the ex-capital)? This one has 2x Tourism, but will need ages for the SC.

ConMon vs FedRep:
The corruption doesn't matter. Level 1 and 2 only differ ín distance corruption, and with 3 FPs, that one is almost a non-issue.
All wonders are mediocre to useless. We already have at least one DC, Liberty must be coastal, Conglomerate requires too many shields elsewhere.
The ConMon unit support is useful, but not crucial.

However, War Monuments rock. A cheap anti-WW structure that can be built exactly where we need it (neither in the core nor in the boonies), allowing a leader-rush Small Wonder if we really go to war. We're in ConMon on LK98, effectively oscillating war, and WW is hardly noticable.

ConMon is the most versatile Gov in my eyes. FedRep is just a weaker SocDem.