I'd support either gov't since the corruption difference apparently won't cancel the added unit support. Never been a Constitutional Monarchy, so why don't we give that a try. It also fits better with our primary need of a larger workforce to lay rails. I think we need the rail-net before the American war.
LK102, Deity, RaR, just win.
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
T_McC said:At least we'll have 20 turns of the "consolidators" before Greebley hauls off and attacks someone.
Well we are killing the Civ I wanted to attack, I am more lackadasical about the Americans. They don't have cities in our first ring.
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Upload feature is DOWN. I will try later.
1150 AD
I fire all of the scientists. We have the science cheat #2, so there is NO reason to research.
Ouch - we wasted labor on sacrifices for borders. It is really sad to find we did this in multiple cities. I really wish you could turn the feature off in RaR. I hate throwing away badly needed labor.
We really need city planning. We have a ton of cities that are way to food heavy with no nearby shields. They will only get worse with rails.
(IT) Greece commits suicide and declares war on the Aztecs.
1160 AD
Once again I fire the annoying animators. Seems like I have been stuck doing that a lot recently.
While I understand why the labor was fortified, it should have been done in a single location. When they are scattered all over the board it greatly increase the risk of missing a stack when bringing them back to life.
(IT) The science cheat gives us electricity.
1180 AD
(IT) We are now a constitutional monarchy.
The Iroquois complete Shakespeare.
1190 AD
We really need to start laying rails. America will start another war simply because of the fact that the AI likes to fully own a continent. Despite having the science cheat I turn on research for high explosives. We NEED a rail-net IMHO to deal with America.
(IT) We get a piece of good news in that we can build the Central Bank.
1220 AD
It never fails. When you give in and start researching a tech, another civ gets it. Electricity goes to the Iroquois for High Explosives so that we can start railing this turn.
1230 AD
(IT) The science cheat gives us Grand War.
1240 AD
(IT) There is no way I am risking a war with America at this point. They can have some sugar.
We complete the Supreme Court.
The Americans are building Sistine Chapel.
==========================
Summary:
We badly need more labor. I have been rushing workers from high food city with low shields. We really need a railnet before America comes after us.
Signed up:
LKendter
T_McC (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)
Romeothemonk
Doc Tsiolkovski
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
1150 AD
I fire all of the scientists. We have the science cheat #2, so there is NO reason to research.
Ouch - we wasted labor on sacrifices for borders. It is really sad to find we did this in multiple cities. I really wish you could turn the feature off in RaR. I hate throwing away badly needed labor.
We really need city planning. We have a ton of cities that are way to food heavy with no nearby shields. They will only get worse with rails.
(IT) Greece commits suicide and declares war on the Aztecs.
1160 AD
Once again I fire the annoying animators. Seems like I have been stuck doing that a lot recently.
While I understand why the labor was fortified, it should have been done in a single location. When they are scattered all over the board it greatly increase the risk of missing a stack when bringing them back to life.
(IT) The science cheat gives us electricity.
1180 AD
(IT) We are now a constitutional monarchy.
The Iroquois complete Shakespeare.
1190 AD
We really need to start laying rails. America will start another war simply because of the fact that the AI likes to fully own a continent. Despite having the science cheat I turn on research for high explosives. We NEED a rail-net IMHO to deal with America.
(IT) We get a piece of good news in that we can build the Central Bank.
1220 AD
It never fails. When you give in and start researching a tech, another civ gets it. Electricity goes to the Iroquois for High Explosives so that we can start railing this turn.
1230 AD
(IT) The science cheat gives us Grand War.
1240 AD
(IT) There is no way I am risking a war with America at this point. They can have some sugar.
We complete the Supreme Court.
The Americans are building Sistine Chapel.
==========================
Summary:
We badly need more labor. I have been rushing workers from high food city with low shields. We really need a railnet before America comes after us.
Signed up:
LKendter
T_McC (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)
Romeothemonk
Doc Tsiolkovski
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
If we need workers, why do we have cities at max population that have not built a worker?
I really don't understand this. Towns at max pop and max food spend one turn building a worker, one turn at size 14, and then the town is back to size 15. If we do this we will have more worker strength than if we did no sacrifices at all for border expansions.
I would build a worker immedately after the current build finishes in all our max food towns.
Otherwise, things are looking good. We have some flip threats from America, but I would like to get our rail backbone down before a war with them.
I really don't understand this. Towns at max pop and max food spend one turn building a worker, one turn at size 14, and then the town is back to size 15. If we do this we will have more worker strength than if we did no sacrifices at all for border expansions.
I would build a worker immedately after the current build finishes in all our max food towns.
Otherwise, things are looking good. We have some flip threats from America, but I would like to get our rail backbone down before a war with them.
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Greebley said:
I agree on this one. I don't think a war is at all viable until good military rail-net is done. However, that alone won't be enough. We are short on bombard units, have cities with cannons for defense, and a lot of fast units are on defensive duty. I doubt we will be ready for several rounds to declare. I just want to be ready in case America declares.
The longer before America starts laying rails the better.
Where do we want the Summer Palace?
Doc suggested Little Bighorn (3 Hills, 1 Mountain), I was thinking Santee (5 Hills, but needs a border expansion). Either city needs a bunch of Forests over irrigaion. Best long-term would be Kumo (3 Mountains, 3 Hills, more central to the Sioux territory), but the city was just founded and is only size 3.
For either of the 1st two we can have it done inside 20 turns.
Doc suggested Little Bighorn (3 Hills, 1 Mountain), I was thinking Santee (5 Hills, but needs a border expansion). Either city needs a bunch of Forests over irrigaion. Best long-term would be Kumo (3 Mountains, 3 Hills, more central to the Sioux territory), but the city was just founded and is only size 3.
For either of the 1st two we can have it done inside 20 turns.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
See...
. The AI will not research into that direction for ages. And you don't tell me you dumbed a half-researched monopoly tech???And, while I for one sacrificed one single Worker (to pull in the Silver), I consider Slave Laborers almost useless in RAR. Not bad to have, but a culture expansion during war is worth more.
Greebley, the probelm with skimming off laborers is their cost of cost 30sp. The corrupt cities need ages to come by with that, and the productive ones...well, that's 1/4 Curassier. I usually rush them in the more corrupt cities
.Does anyone not agree we need a rail-net before war?
Actually, it is more than 1/4 a Curassier because many of the core cities have more than 30 shields. On the other hand, it is rare that every town has to build all military; the worker is an investment like a city improvement. Workers get us one of the largest gains in the game.
It just seems counter-intuitive to me that we are short on workers yet not spending the single turn it takes to build them.
It just seems counter-intuitive to me that we are short on workers yet not spending the single turn it takes to build them.
Yes we need to complete our rail-net before we go after Abe.
I intend to shut off the Northern front on my turns, but the biggest problem is the >25 troops Abe has in his small pocket of ex-Sioux territory. Given the cultural borders, too many of those troops can reach our cities to comfortably play defense. So it looks to me that a war has to start with an offensive vs. the offending city. We'll need a bigger troop count to do that. Heh, if I didn't want to build the Summer Palace I might mobilize.
I intend to shut off the Northern front on my turns, but the biggest problem is the >25 troops Abe has in his small pocket of ex-Sioux territory. Given the cultural borders, too many of those troops can reach our cities to comfortably play defense. So it looks to me that a war has to start with an offensive vs. the offending city. We'll need a bigger troop count to do that. Heh, if I didn't want to build the Summer Palace I might mobilize.
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- Messages
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T_McC said:We'll need a bigger troop count to do that. Heh, if I didn't want to build the Summer Palace I might mobilize.
With the number of new cities barely started on buildings I don't even want to hear that word (mobilize).
As for the worker skimming, I am not sure if I even had a chance. I didn't even think about it until after I got high explosives and realize how few tiles we dropped down. Also, this ONLY works if the food box is FULL. Many of the size 15 cities don't have a full food box.
I agree the only war the American war will work is to clear out those to cities on turn one. Based on what I have seen we need to at least double our fast units. Of course, we still have a lot hiding in various towns...
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
It sounds like you guys will get the railnet up, and get a few other nice things ready for Greebley or I to pull the trigger on Abe.
When I saw Abe's stuff, most of it was cava's and HA's. This means that we should be able to lay the smack with a lot of stuff, including our "Defensive" units.
When I saw Abe's stuff, most of it was cava's and HA's. This means that we should be able to lay the smack with a lot of stuff, including our "Defensive" units.
We have 3 cities that can pop off a worker. Hopefully, TMcC will look into it.
LK102 - Blah blah blah blah, ...
1250 AD (0)
Let's see ... we make 1100 gpt, so I can spend > 10 large and no one will be the wiser.
We're two techs from City Planning and we have lots of rails to lay. I'll keep research off until I have a better feel for who needs what in our cities.
I'm a big fan of the man in the bowler. So I let Ghandi build rails, and he slides me 2500 in cash. I cannot believe we have any reason to attack India in the next 10, and I don't care whether he builds 4-5 rails in the next 20 turns. Odd thing is, the AI's inability to stack workers actually helps it in this situation.
Abe is selling us 2 lux for 4 gpt. I think that one's going away on the IT so I kill it myself. He only has 4 gpt to offer so I won't sell him High Explosives. I bet he'll demand it sometime on this turn.
Renew a lux deal with Hi, we give 2 lux + gold (resource), he gives us back 2 lux. Tobacco + 20 gpt gets us a lux from Monte, and we've replaced the lux we lost from Abe. Do an extra-cheesy deal with Abe: We give WM + 8 gold, he gives WM + 1gpt. Who's anal-retentive?
We pay 160 gpt in unit support. My goal is to get that over 400 by the end of this round.
Since no one else weighed in I'll go with Doc's idea of the Summer Palace in Little Bighorn. I think it might be finished by the end of my turns.
Short-rush Guild Hall in FPville. I'm going to like spending big money.
Sell off a Slave Market in a city where it isn't doing any good. Get a clown back in the fields that way.
Swap Gao from Central Bank to Factory. Should be able to build both in 12 turns instead of Central Bank in 9.
1255 AD (1)
Change governor setting to "Never Build Wonders" in all cities.
FPville goes to Line Infantry/turn.
Everybody is still broke. Build first Fortification along our Northern Front.
<Cash = 4863 , have to track this. >
1260 AD (2)
I might have to put the animators back on. This rapid movement is seizure-inducing.
Iro complete Sistine. Good for them.
Abe got High Explosives. Alex is OCC'ing. I take 2 of his last 3 gold for our WM.
<Cash =4708. Goin' backwards. >
IT - Aztecs want to chat, I just swap WMs.
1265 AD (3)
Little Bighorn starts Summer Palace.
Chan Chan must grow to size 8 for the defensive bonus, and get a Garrison.
Indians complete Edisons, and start on Emancipation Proclamation. I smell a SGL-rush.
Oooh. We're going to get Social Contract on the IT.
<Cash = 4934. Big spending next turn. >
1270 AD (4)
Huh. The Iro and Americans were fighting. Not anymore.
I think I wasn't joking about getting our unit support up over 400 per turn.
1275 AD (5)
Bad Craziness in the Village. Re-start computer.
Come back and found Zaria on our Northern front. Re-MM cities, check diplomacy and notice we're in for a big IT. We'll get a couple of Techs, including Replacable Parts.
<Cash = 5628. We'll need it for upgrades. >
IT -
1250 AD (0)
Let's see ... we make 1100 gpt, so I can spend > 10 large and no one will be the wiser.
We're two techs from City Planning and we have lots of rails to lay. I'll keep research off until I have a better feel for who needs what in our cities.
I'm a big fan of the man in the bowler. So I let Ghandi build rails, and he slides me 2500 in cash. I cannot believe we have any reason to attack India in the next 10, and I don't care whether he builds 4-5 rails in the next 20 turns. Odd thing is, the AI's inability to stack workers actually helps it in this situation.
Abe is selling us 2 lux for 4 gpt. I think that one's going away on the IT so I kill it myself. He only has 4 gpt to offer so I won't sell him High Explosives. I bet he'll demand it sometime on this turn.
Renew a lux deal with Hi, we give 2 lux + gold (resource), he gives us back 2 lux. Tobacco + 20 gpt gets us a lux from Monte, and we've replaced the lux we lost from Abe. Do an extra-cheesy deal with Abe: We give WM + 8 gold, he gives WM + 1gpt. Who's anal-retentive?
We pay 160 gpt in unit support. My goal is to get that over 400 by the end of this round.
Since no one else weighed in I'll go with Doc's idea of the Summer Palace in Little Bighorn. I think it might be finished by the end of my turns.
Short-rush Guild Hall in FPville. I'm going to like spending big money.
Sell off a Slave Market in a city where it isn't doing any good. Get a clown back in the fields that way.
Swap Gao from Central Bank to Factory. Should be able to build both in 12 turns instead of Central Bank in 9.
1255 AD (1)
Change governor setting to "Never Build Wonders" in all cities.
FPville goes to Line Infantry/turn.
Everybody is still broke. Build first Fortification along our Northern Front.
<Cash = 4863 , have to track this. >
1260 AD (2)
I might have to put the animators back on. This rapid movement is seizure-inducing.
Iro complete Sistine. Good for them.
Abe got High Explosives. Alex is OCC'ing. I take 2 of his last 3 gold for our WM.
<Cash =4708. Goin' backwards. >
IT - Aztecs want to chat, I just swap WMs.
1265 AD (3)
Little Bighorn starts Summer Palace.
Chan Chan must grow to size 8 for the defensive bonus, and get a Garrison.
Indians complete Edisons, and start on Emancipation Proclamation. I smell a SGL-rush.
Oooh. We're going to get Social Contract on the IT.
<Cash = 4934. Big spending next turn. >
1270 AD (4)
Huh. The Iro and Americans were fighting. Not anymore.
I think I wasn't joking about getting our unit support up over 400 per turn.
1275 AD (5)
Bad Craziness in the Village. Re-start computer.
Come back and found Zaria on our Northern front. Re-MM cities, check diplomacy and notice we're in for a big IT. We'll get a couple of Techs, including Replacable Parts.
<Cash = 5628. We'll need it for upgrades. >
IT -
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
Hmm, well it looks like a decision on war was made for us.
I really had no overwhelming desire to go to war, and actually thought I would do final setups for the war passoff. I know that sounds wierd, but LK's builder momentum is rubbing off on me a bit now.
It looks like this might be hairy for a few turns, but we should be in good shape soon enough.
I really had no overwhelming desire to go to war, and actually thought I would do final setups for the war passoff. I know that sounds wierd, but LK's builder momentum is rubbing off on me a bit now.
It looks like this might be hairy for a few turns, but we should be in good shape soon enough.
LK102 - ... My Big Black Foot Up Your ***
1280 AD (6)
And then it hits the fan. Almost got the rail-net done. Abe is in for heap'm big trouble.
Good timing on his part, we were going to more significantly garrison Machu Picchu on the next turn. Win 2, lose 2 and Machu Picchu.
We lose about 4 ex-Sioux cities as the Railnet hadn't extended that far yet. We will get them all back and then some on our turn.
Dogpile Abe and get Trade Embargoes with all.
Upgrade all of our Line Infantry to Riflemen, and Abe's offense is likely finished. We very likely already have WW, let's see ... 33% already. This should be fun.
Kill 10 American units, losing 1. Then kill another 5-6. Bump lux to 20%, and we have 1 more turn to hold on. We may lose another city, but Abe has shot his load and will take a severe beating from here on out.
1285 AD (7)
We lose Huari, as our defenders were pathetic. Now it's payback time.
Kill three units and pop a leader, used to rush the Summer Palace in Little Bighorn. Re-capture Chan Chan. Re-capture Huari. Keep killing units. Bump lux to 40%. It is so on Abe!
Abandon Kano, as Abe landed two Hussar from a Galley that our Frigates were 1 tile short of sinking last turn.
There are no more fast units in our territory, so next turn we should be able to start capturing Abe's cities.
Give Screw Propellor to Hi and Monte for 5 lux in total. That should dent the WW a bit. (10% lux is 195 gpt).
30% lux is fine, see how things shake out after next turn.
1290 AD (8)
Uhhh ... I guess this was the only move Abe had left. Checkmate?
Abe doesn't kill a single unit on the IT. Uh-Oh!
Re-capture Machu Picchu. Abe, The Ship be Sinkin'. Chimbote joins the dark side. I'm only disappointed that we're not in a whipping gov't.
There are zero American troops on our soil, but I lost 1 or 2 of ours killing the last 12-15 of Abe's. Now we go for more painful measures.
1295 AD (9)
Capture San Diego and claim Gems. Whack a bunch of units, then have enough left over to also capture Denver, providing Tropical Fruit. Abe has a single Tundra city behind our lines, and after that he must charge through our Cannonade barricades.
I failed on my turns. Our unit support is only 316 gpt. We do have 54 Laborers now, though. I was aiming for 60 before Abe spoiled the party.
1300 AD (10)
First the important stuff: Whack two Mameluks and capture Nakota. Abe is no longer behind our lines.
Can't resist. We have loads of troops. Raze Los Angeles. This war was a great idea Abe.
Final Notes:
Boy, this could get real ugly on Greebley's turn. Abe is throwing a lot of Hussars past our Cannons, should be plenty of leader opportunities.
We are at 31/37 for Domination, with the Iro in 2nd place. We have 54 Laborers, and should be fairly stable at 30% lux. If WW can collapse Cons. Monarchy, expect that to happen fairly soon.
We're too big to fit in a single screenshot, so just admire the mini-map.
1280 AD (6)
And then it hits the fan. Almost got the rail-net done. Abe is in for heap'm big trouble.
Good timing on his part, we were going to more significantly garrison Machu Picchu on the next turn. Win 2, lose 2 and Machu Picchu.
We lose about 4 ex-Sioux cities as the Railnet hadn't extended that far yet. We will get them all back and then some on our turn.
Dogpile Abe and get Trade Embargoes with all.
Upgrade all of our Line Infantry to Riflemen, and Abe's offense is likely finished. We very likely already have WW, let's see ... 33% already. This should be fun.
Kill 10 American units, losing 1. Then kill another 5-6. Bump lux to 20%, and we have 1 more turn to hold on. We may lose another city, but Abe has shot his load and will take a severe beating from here on out.
1285 AD (7)
We lose Huari, as our defenders were pathetic. Now it's payback time.
Kill three units and pop a leader, used to rush the Summer Palace in Little Bighorn. Re-capture Chan Chan. Re-capture Huari. Keep killing units. Bump lux to 40%. It is so on Abe!
Abandon Kano, as Abe landed two Hussar from a Galley that our Frigates were 1 tile short of sinking last turn.
There are no more fast units in our territory, so next turn we should be able to start capturing Abe's cities.
Give Screw Propellor to Hi and Monte for 5 lux in total. That should dent the WW a bit. (10% lux is 195 gpt).
30% lux is fine, see how things shake out after next turn.
1290 AD (8)
Uhhh ... I guess this was the only move Abe had left. Checkmate?
Abe doesn't kill a single unit on the IT. Uh-Oh!
Re-capture Machu Picchu. Abe, The Ship be Sinkin'. Chimbote joins the dark side. I'm only disappointed that we're not in a whipping gov't.
There are zero American troops on our soil, but I lost 1 or 2 of ours killing the last 12-15 of Abe's. Now we go for more painful measures.
1295 AD (9)
Capture San Diego and claim Gems. Whack a bunch of units, then have enough left over to also capture Denver, providing Tropical Fruit. Abe has a single Tundra city behind our lines, and after that he must charge through our Cannonade barricades.
I failed on my turns. Our unit support is only 316 gpt. We do have 54 Laborers now, though. I was aiming for 60 before Abe spoiled the party.
1300 AD (10)
First the important stuff: Whack two Mameluks and capture Nakota. Abe is no longer behind our lines.
Can't resist. We have loads of troops. Raze Los Angeles. This war was a great idea Abe.
Final Notes:
Boy, this could get real ugly on Greebley's turn. Abe is throwing a lot of Hussars past our Cannons, should be plenty of leader opportunities.
We are at 31/37 for Domination, with the Iro in 2nd place. We have 54 Laborers, and should be fairly stable at 30% lux. If WW can collapse Cons. Monarchy, expect that to happen fairly soon.
We're too big to fit in a single screenshot, so just admire the mini-map.
The position looked really fun, so I had to go ahead and play the first turn.
Preturn:
I traded extra 5-6 Lux and resources and most of our gpt for 12640 gold from india. I then stole 3 techs to get Repeating Rifle, Advanced Metallurgy, and Corperation. The 4th steal we were caught but India did not declare war. This was good in that I was able to then buy Refining for 6140 gold. It was bad in that we didn't get our gpt back. Note that Adv Met gives us the ability to build Artillery. However, artillery required oil according to the Civopedia however so we needed refining too. We have 3 oils BTW.
I then started upgrading cannon and dragoons, and Hussar. Couldn't upgrade everything though - we used up all that money.
IBT: Not much happened.
1305 AD: We Captured Miami, Atlanta, and New York using Cavalry with Artillery support. I really like RaR artillery. We might have been able to get another town, but we ran out of workers to build the necessary rails. New York was toughest with a loss of 3 Cav.
IBT: Our adventurer is attacked but wins.
With Cavalry and Artillery it looks like we have the forces to handle America even if we lose our govt and get 8 turns anarchy. This is one of the reasons I played it this way. I didn't like giving the tech leader a large amount of cash (and to be honest, I thought we would get our cash back when the steal failed).
So far I haven't seen much in the way of activity from America, but I am covering myself well. My guess is that I can destroy most of America on my turn, though Anarchy may cramp my style a bit.
To be Continued...
Preturn:
I traded extra 5-6 Lux and resources and most of our gpt for 12640 gold from india. I then stole 3 techs to get Repeating Rifle, Advanced Metallurgy, and Corperation. The 4th steal we were caught but India did not declare war. This was good in that I was able to then buy Refining for 6140 gold. It was bad in that we didn't get our gpt back. Note that Adv Met gives us the ability to build Artillery. However, artillery required oil according to the Civopedia however so we needed refining too. We have 3 oils BTW.
I then started upgrading cannon and dragoons, and Hussar. Couldn't upgrade everything though - we used up all that money.
IBT: Not much happened.
1305 AD: We Captured Miami, Atlanta, and New York using Cavalry with Artillery support. I really like RaR artillery. We might have been able to get another town, but we ran out of workers to build the necessary rails. New York was toughest with a loss of 3 Cav.
IBT: Our adventurer is attacked but wins.
With Cavalry and Artillery it looks like we have the forces to handle America even if we lose our govt and get 8 turns anarchy. This is one of the reasons I played it this way. I didn't like giving the tech leader a large amount of cash (and to be honest, I thought we would get our cash back when the steal failed).
So far I haven't seen much in the way of activity from America, but I am covering myself well. My guess is that I can destroy most of America on my turn, though Anarchy may cramp my style a bit.
To be Continued...
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Greebley, you should try to get the 3 War Memorials up; the Gov-SM should help a lot with WW.
Sounds like fun.
Sounds like fun
.@Doc - We've already built 3 War Memorials, although I don't think the SW will do much if it replicates Suffrage.
I don't think we should be making deals we have no intention to keep. If/when our gov't collapses we're going to go broke and not be able to pay India, and I don't see how trading gpt for cash and then stealing tech with the intention of having war declared is any different than buying tech for gpt and then immediately declaring war ourselves. We're in a dominant position as it is and we didn't need that.
About the only thing missing was buying the rest of India's cash for gpt through a phony MA against Greece. I think there last city is continental, and they are already at war with India. That last fact was conspicuously absent from my turnlog.
I don't think we should be making deals we have no intention to keep. If/when our gov't collapses we're going to go broke and not be able to pay India, and I don't see how trading gpt for cash and then stealing tech with the intention of having war declared is any different than buying tech for gpt and then immediately declaring war ourselves. We're in a dominant position as it is and we didn't need that.
About the only thing missing was buying the rest of India's cash for gpt through a phony MA against Greece. I think there last city is continental, and they are already at war with India. That last fact was conspicuously absent from my turnlog.
