LK108 - India, Warlord, just win baby

[LKendter]

I really haven't thought about a victory condition at this point. I am leaning toward a peaceful type. Cultural would be nice, but I haven't taken a look to see if we have 3 cities that are good enough. If cultural we really need a lot of cottages by those three cities to let us run the cultural slider at a high setting.


Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Methos
MeteorPunch
DJMGator13
Eotinb (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

 

[DJMGator13]

I really haven't thought about a victory condition at this point. I am leaning toward a peaceful type. Cultural would be nice, but I haven't taken a look to see if we have 3 cities that are good enough. If cultural we really need a lot of cottages by those three cities to let us run the cultural slider at a high setting.

I'm flexible on the VC, although I don't think a domination/conquest victory would be too challenging at this stage. We also will need to crank up the research which means getting univesities instead of cavs is more important.

 

[Gyathaar]

Wonder if the patch upgrade may have caused a glitch?

It turns out this problem is because normal length games changed from 430 to 440 turn length with the patch (quick went from 300 to 320 and epic 650 to 660 turns)... this seems to confuse the game a bit, and it displays wrong years when opening an old save with less turns.

 

[eotinb]

Good to know, Gyathaar. I'll take a look and see about the possibility of a cultural victory and report back to the team.

 

[eotinb]

So here's the deal. Delhi is at 6588 and 47/turn (one holy city and palace). Bangalore is 1537 and 32/turn (two holy cities). Seville is 6101 but only 4/turn. And we have a few more below 1000 but making a healthy 10 or more/turn. I think I will take these turns to get Delhi, Bangalore, and Seville on the road to a cultural victory and we can see where we are after ten turns and make a more informed decision then. We have enough cities to get three cathedrals in each of these towns, which will help a lot. I'll also stop the Hermitage build in Madras and move it to probably Seville.

 

[Methos]

I don't recall how many cities we have but we can build a cathedral for every 3 cities. I suggest building as many temples as possible in those three cities, for all religions they have. If possible send missionaries over to those cities to increase the amount of temples.

Have another city build the National Epic and if it hasn't been built yet the Parth... (can't remember what its called). This city shouldn't be one of the cultural cities as all it will do is build Great Artists.

BTW, this isn't my idea, I read it in the strategy thread. According to the author he could hit a cultural victory without even building great wonders in the three cities.

As many temples, monastaries, and cathedrals as possible should be built in these cities.

 

[eotinb]

That's the way to do it, Methos. I'll see which city is the best bet for a Great Artist factory. I plan to play my turns late tonight or during the day tomorrow, so keep the feedback on victory strategy coming and I'll check in at least once more before I play.

 

[eotinb]

I'm a bit bogged down at the moment -- I can either play tomorrow or take a swap with LK (in which case I may still end up playing tomorrow )

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Methos
MeteorPunch
DJMGator13
Eotinb (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

 

[LKendter]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK108_AD-1400.zip


1350 AD
I decide to send the artist to Bangalore to create a super specialist. If we can get a lot of culture multiplying buildings in that city, that will go a long way toward 3 cultural super cities.

I really don't understand the logic with building aqueducts. We are drowning in health in our smaller cities.

One thing that worries me is the cultural border of Karachi. That city is doing very poorly and should concentrate on 100% culture buildings to avoid any problems down the line.


1355 AD
(ST) It is no surprise that we have been declared the largest civ in the world.


1365 AD
Add the Spiral Minaret to our list of wonders.

I spread Christianity to Calcutta to allow us to build missionaries outside of the 3 culture cities.
I add Islam to Madras to allow for future culture builds.
Hinduism has been added to Kolhapur.


1385 AD
We get a plus one bonus for navigating the globe.


1390 AD
Madras now worships Christianity.


1400 AD
Bombay now worships Christianity.

==========================

Summary:
The Taj Mahal is being built in Madras. 10 points of culture, a GA, and more great artist points will go a long way to the 3 culture city goal.

The one thing I didn't feel I built enough of was military. France won't even talk with us, so we need to prepare for them to come our way.

We need to keep spamming out missionaries. A couple of Hindu missionaries are heading to America to hope we can convert enough of those cities to add another friend.
With the cultural goal we need to avoid scientific method for as possible. Remember that the top 3 city list for culture is deceptive as Seville was cultural bombed.

We seem to be a bit light on workers. We still should sneak some in when possible.



Signed up:
LKendter (swapped)
Methos (on deck)
MeteorPunch
DJMGator13
Eotinb (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.

 

[LKendter]

The current culture accumulation rates, and why I picked these 3 cities.

 

[LKendter]

The religions of India at this time.

 

[eotinb]

I've got it. Tomorrow looks better than today did, so I expect to be able to play by then if not tonight. I had forgotten that we culture bombed Seville -- good call on the three culture cities, LK. I'm glad we are working towards a goal now.

In my one culture victory (on Prince) the toughest call for me was when to slow down on science and dial up the culture (formerly luxury) slider and when to shut science down altogether. Something for us to think about down the road.

Also, I'm not entirely sure on how religion affects culture with respect to state religion. Does having no state religion mean that every religion in a city produces culture, not just the state religion? Or is that only true of Holy Cities? (Even if it is, that may make sense for us given Bangalore's status as a double Holy City).

 

[Tatran]

With the cultural goal we need to avoid scientific method for as possible.

The only penalty is, you can't build new monasteries,the old ones are still
there with their culture and you still can build missionaries in cities with
a monastery.

 

[Methos]

Also, I'm not entirely sure on how religion affects culture with respect to state religion. Does having no state religion mean that every religion in a city produces culture, not just the state religion?

From my understanding of reading RB1 when you have a state religion declared only the state religion religious buildings gain culture. When no state religion is declared every religious building earns culture. This is why we need to switch to no state religion and attempt to get as much religious influence in those three cities that we can.

Imagine how much culture each city would earn if you had a temple, monostary, and cathedral of each religion in that one city. Do this for all three cities and they will be earning culture big time due to just improvements.

 

[Methos]

To point out what I'm talking about let me quote Sullla from Post #38 in RB1. Look towards the middle and bottom of that post.

Now that Stonehenge is complete, I convert us back to NO state religion. Why do this? Well, we don't need the happiness boost from a religion at the moment, we won't get the shield boost from Organized Religion when building a worker, and we'll get a LOT more culture from having no state religion in Havana right now. Look:

<snip>

That's 5 culture per turn for EACH religion we have - we'd only get that from ONE religion if we were using one as a state religion. Now we'll eventually have to swap to one religion and stick with it, but for now let's feed the hydra some more!

 

[eotinb]

Thanks for looking up that post in RB1. I knew it was there but didn't want to scour all those many pages looking for it. But is that only because Havana is the Holy City for those three religions? That's my question. Anyway, I think you can check it pretty quickly in the Religion Advisor.

 

[eotinb]

The save

Summary: Nothing very interesting -- just doing some military buildup while also spreading around our religions so we can build the culture buildings that come with them. Madras is still farthest behind our other two culture cities -- that'd be the place to put the Hermitage. Got a Great Merchant from being first to Economics, which I used for the super trade route, the proceeds of which could be used to upgrade some of our older units in case France or Greece attacks.

A look at the DomAdvisor screen:

Boring detailed log in the spoiler:

Spoiler :

Turn 310 (1400 AD)
Bangalore - cul finishes: Christian Monastery
Calcutta finishes: Hindu Missionary
Seville finishes: Hindu Missionary
Madrid finishes: Pikeman
Sparta finishes: Hindu Temple

Turn 311 (1405 AD)
Bangalore - cul begins: Hindu Monastery -- Monastaries are cheap and culture-rich (2cpt)
Calcutta begins: Courthouse -- Not enough hpt to be a good place to make troops and -5gpt maintenance, so a Courthouse makes sense
Sparta begins: Hindu Monastery -- Needs more cheap culture to push back borders
Remove Aquaducts from queues in Madrid and Seville so they don't sneak back to them while I'm not looking
Seville begins: Musketman
Madrid begins: Musketman
Since I completely agree with LK that France is likely to attack us soon, I start shifting troops to Apache and Thermopylae
Send Hindu Missionary to New York
And another to Atlanta -- the conversion of America has started
Third to Washington

Turn 312 (1410 AD)
Harkuf (Great Merchant) born in Delhi - culture
Tech learned: Economics
Delhi - culture finishes: Confucian Temple
Santiago finishes: Barracks
Apache finishes: Courthouse

Turn 313 (1415 AD)
Research begun: Replaceable Parts
Switch to Free Market and Beuracracy
Santiago begins: Lighthouse
Santiago begins: Work Boat
Santiago begins: Lighthouse
Apache begins: Theatre -- Cheap culture will help with borders and defense
Delhi - culture begins: Christian Monastery
Send Great Merchant from learning Economics to Atlanta (biggest American city and pretty far away)
Hinduism has spread: Washington (American Empire)
Hinduism has spread: Atlanta (American Empire)
Conversions reveal that American cities are very poorly defended
I redirect GM to Karakorum
Karachi finishes: Hindu Temple

Turn 314 (1420 AD)
Karachi begins: Hindu Missionary
Hinduism has spread: New York (American Empire)
Enough of the American people are now Hindu that conversion is possible but GW doesn't like us enough to do it. I trade him pigs for 4gpt to help in that regard
While I'm trading I check for other possible deals and trade Alex corn for 3gpt
Delhi - culture's borders expand
Delhi - culture finishes: Christian Monastery

Turn 315 (1425 AD)
Delhi - culture begins: Confucian Monastery
Since we won't have much use for our Caravels, I'd like to leave at least one to spy on the French
1950g from GM trade route
Delhi - culture finishes: Confucian Monastery

Turn 316 (1430 AD)
Delhi - culture begins: Musketman
Bangalore - cul finishes: Hindu Monastery
Calcutta finishes: Courthouse
Lahore finishes: Musketman
Toledo finishes: Barracks
Seville finishes: Musketman
Santiago finishes: Lighthouse
Thermopylae finishes: Hindu Temple

Turn 317 (1435 AD)
GW comes begging for Printing Press -- since we are trying to curry favor with him and he's so far behind that it's hardly funny, I give it. He's so happy that he is willing to convert to Hinduism as a favor to a good friend
Bangalore - cul begins: Confucian Monastery
Calcutta begins: Christian Temple -- need another Christian Temple to build another Christian Cathedral
Lahore begins: Islamic Missionary -- Should probably spread Islam at least to our culture cities to get the religious buildings
Toledo begins: Granary
Seville begins: Jewish Missionary -- money from GM will allow us to upgrade troops for defense, so I decide to try to spread Judaism in our three culture cities (might end up not being worth the effort, but we'll see)
Santiago begins: Work Boat
Thermopylae begins: Theatre -- same rationale as with Theater in Apache
Madrid finishes: Musketman
Santiago finishes: Work Boat

Turn 318 (1440 AD)
Santiago begins: Library
GW wants us to cancel our deals with Mongolia -- I refuse
Madrid begins: Jewish Missionary
Tech learned: Replaceable Parts
Delhi - culture finishes: Musketman

Turn 319 (1445 AD)
Research begun: Constitution
Delhi - culture begins: Confucian Missionary
Time to start building lumbermills
Bangalore - cul finishes: Confucian Monastery
Calcutta finishes: Christian Temple
Lahore finishes: Islamic Missionary
Cordoba finishes: Forge
Seville finishes: Jewish Missionary
Apache finishes: Theatre
Kolhapur finishes: Theatre

Turn 320 (1450 AD)
Bangalore - cul begins: Confucian Missionary
Calcutta begins: Christian Missionary
Lahore begins: Islamic Missionary
Cordoba begins: Confucian Missionary
Seville begins: Jewish Missionary
Apache begins: Library

 

[Methos]

Got it....

 

[Tatran]

From my understanding of reading RB1 when you have a state religion declared only the state religion religious buildings gain culture. When no state religion is declared every religious building earns culture. This is why we need to switch to no state religion and attempt to get as much religious influence in those three cities that we can.

Imagine how much culture each city would earn if you had a temple, monostary, and cathedral of each religion in that one city. Do this for all three cities and they will be earning culture big time due to just improvements.

This explains a lot why I didn't achieve some cultural victories despite of
using 80-90% culture and building all those religious improvements.
A quick test learned me that it affects temples and holy shrines,maybe also
cathedrals,but I didn't build them in my current game.However monasteries
aren't affected.You'll get their culture,state religion or non-state religion.