LK128 - What the? Who the?

[Tatran]

We'll soon control the tiles around the former Carthage cities, <5% American.
However, the tiles around Philadelphia and Seattle are >80% American.
To conquer Roosevelt is an easier solution. Btw, we can declare without
getting a diplomatic penalty.

 

[LKendter]

To conquer Roosevelt is an easier solution. Btw, we can declare without getting a diplomatic penalty.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

We snagged Physics and the GS - after much agonizing and calculating - built an Academy in Carthage. Sold Physics for Biology and some chump change.

The end of Hannibal:

After I got Physics, I made the civics switch:

Quick overview:

We're researching Railroad just to get it in range for a trade with Physics. Check next turn whether a Buddhist will make the deal.

As for war with Roosy, my main concern would be the WW penalty that is lying beneath the surface of our superficially happy pop (we were around 8-9 per city).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96651/LK128_AD-1625.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Tatran]

Some comments after seeing the last save.
Louis has a huge power graph and he hasn't infantry yet.
Another concern is his population >30% against our population >20%.
When it comes to voting Saladin and Catherine will surely vote for Louis.

 

[LKendter]

Some comments after seeing the last save.
Louis has a huge power graph and he hasn't infantry yet.

Well that confirms more that domination isn't viable.
I am officially setting the win target as space.

Another concern is his population >30% against our population >20%.
When it comes to voting Saladin and Catherine will surely vote for Louis.

This does confirm we want to take America out. We know America wouldn't support us. We need more votes to make sure we can't lose to the UN.

 

[angeleyes]

[....]This does confirm we want to take America out. [....]

Got it, i'll play tomorrow

 

[LKendter]

Current plans


Roster
LKendter (on deck)
Tatran
Bede
Swiss Pauli
Angeleyes (currently playing) and already got it.


Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: space.

Small wonders
Heroic Epic - it is built in Production City.
Globe Theater - Is it worth building at this point?
Wall Street -
Oxford - it is being built in Seoul.
Forbidden Palace - it is built in Carthage.
National Epic - it is built in Seoul.
Iron Works - it is built in Production City

 

[angeleyes]

View attachment LK128 AD-1655.CivWarlordsSave

0 1625 AD Give Brennus Biology to declare on Roos (+ some money).

1 All the Buddhist guys and girl suddenly has Assembly Line. Get railroads from the girl for Physics and 30 gold. Buddha knows Combustion aswell. Research > Assembly Line to be able to get it from Saladin for Physics.

2 Saladin gets a great general, he must have researched Fascism. Roos has rifles.

3 Saladin suddenly has Physics ...Change research to Electricity.

4 Roos has given Brennus a few uppercuts but now we come into play. Declare on Roos and two SOD's march on to Atlanta and New York.

5 Stacks arrive at both city's.

6 City defenses bombarded to zero.

7 Capture both city's, including The Kong Miao (17 gold), losing four cannons. Seoul completes Oxford. Calculate that bureaucracy gives us more than 200 gold plus some hammers extra (spaceparts!) > prefer this above free speech.

8 March towards Washington

9 Stack arrives at Washington. Louis has Electricity. Sell Physics for a very friendly price to Brennus to get Electricity in one.

10 1655 AD City defenses bombarded to zero. Get Electricity,but Sal and Cathy only want to give a dime for it ...Research > Assembly Line again, can be changed (Radio?)

Louis is willing to convert to Free Religion, but we have to offer him more. I've send a few cannons and grens to the dessert island of Roos to raze it, not arrived yet.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

7 Capture both city's, including The Kong Miao (17 gold), losing four cannons. Seoul completes Oxford. Calculate that bureaucracy gives us more than 200 gold plus some hammers extra (spaceparts!) > prefer this above free speech.

Nice turns, but I'm sure this assertion about BUR is wrong - I calculate that BUR gives us some 50 more beakers and the same net income as Free Speech (at 70% research), plus the extra hammers in Seoul. So it's better, but not by so much and the difference will narrow as villages mature into towns.

However, given that FS would require two turns of anarchy, I must revise my earlier claim and say it'll be best to stay in BUR (unless we have a pressing need to adopt State Property).

 

[angeleyes]

Nice turns, but I'm sure this assertion about BUR is wrong - I calculate that BUR gives us some 50 more beakers and the same net income as Free Speech (at 70% research), plus the extra hammers in Seoul. So it's better, but not by so much and the difference will narrow as villages mature into towns.

However, given that FS would require two turns of anarchy, I must revise my earlier claim and say it'll be best to stay in BUR (unless we have a pressing need to adopt State Property).

You're right, my calculation was with 100% science rate and without incalculating the 2 extra gold towns give under Free Speech

 

[LKendter]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK128_AD-1685.CivWarlordsSave

1655 AD
I pick up the game with another war with paper-thin coastal defenses. At some point we really need more than an obsolete axe guarding the coast cities. It still feels weird being at war with one lousy city on military.
I am not sure why we built a MA in Kerkouane if we are going to build infrastructure in the town.


1658 AD
I have to use almost the whole stack, but I easily chew through the obsolete stuff in Washington. Picking up multiple workers was a nice bonus.




1664 AD
I really hate capturing island junk like this, but I have feeling the AI will keep settling here if we don't take it.



(IT) We haven't even researched assembly line, and Cathy completes the Pentagon.


1667 AD
We have a GS that will contribute nicely toward fission, and no AIs have that yet. For the moment I will set on him, as a GA would also be nice. If fission gets close, then we can decide which is better.


1676 AD



1685 AD
And the war is a wrap.


=======================

Summary:

Current plans
Do we want to take out Brennus? That should insure we wouldn't lose to the UN.

Make sure to reset that culture slider next turn. The decision on a fission grab with the scientist will occur next turn.


Roster
LKendter
Tatran (currently playing)
Bede (on deck)
Swiss Pauli
Angeleyes


Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: space.

Small wonders
Heroic Epic - it is built in Production City.
Globe Theater - Is it worth building at this point?
Wall Street - I see no logical location for it.
Oxford - it is being built in Seoul.
Forbidden Palace - it is built in Carthage.
National Epic - it is built in Seoul.
Iron Works - it is built in Production City

 

[Tatran]

Ok, playing

 

[Tatran]

Pre-turn
Hitmusicals for clam from Catherine.
I also signed a defensive pact with her. (We didn't give Louis tribute.)
Research : Fission -> Industrialism
All cities are on emphasize food + commerce.

1691 AD (2)
Does this make sense?
River farm + lumbermill versus grassland farm + watermill and we can cash rush.
(1 hammer versus 3 commerce)

1694 AD (3)
Research : Industrialism -> Radio

1709 AD (8)
Research : Radio -> Combustion
(We finally can trade for Industrialism.)
Use Great Scientist to lightbulb Fission.

1712 AD (9)
Research : Combustion -> Fission

1715 AD (10)
Fission is known, continue to research Radio.

Well, I'm disappointed by the AIs, they haven't got more modern techs.

IBT 1715 AD
Louis offered pigs for gems, but this deal looks better.

1724 AD (13)
Louis and Saladin have Plastics.
Research : Radio -> Plastics

1727 AD (14)
New York starts Wall Street.
Research : Plastics -> Radio

1730 AD (15)
Radio is known, start to research Ecology.

We have a lot of options on wonders : Eiffel Tower, Rock 'n' Roll, Three Gorges Dam

This is funny, Louis' population dropped to 28&#37;, we're at 35% world population.
Something I've missed, but we can sign a defensive pact with Louis too.

 

[LKendter]

Research : Fission -> Industrialism
1694 AD (3)
Research : Industrialism -> Radio

1709 AD (8)
Research : Radio -> Combustion
(We finally can trade for Industrialism.)
Use Great Scientist to lightbulb Fission.

1712 AD (9)
Research : Combustion -> Fission

1715 AD (10)
Fission is known, continue to research Radio.

Research : Radio -> Plastics

1727 AD (14)
Research : Plastics -> Radio

1730 AD (15)
Radio is known, start to research Ecology.

I am confused what you were trying to accomplish here with the reseearch. You seemed to be bouncing all over the place. Could you give me some insight?

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Looks like we're moving into the lead. Very good! Checked the save and only Saladin is lacking Alu. I think we should switch research to the 'top line' and get Artillery and Rocketry and then get started on Apollo.

3GD would be nice to have, but I wouldn't to tie up Prodcution City with it (Apollo). Maybe Seoul can have a crack at it?

Pop wise, we're behind Louis but I think we will slowly catch and overtake him (and netting the fish in Nang'po would help to this end).

 

[Tatran]

I want to trade for a tech the AI has got and the one I need.
Timing is an important factor. In my last turn set it worked out well,
because the AIs didn't put any beakers in the techs we've researched
(Fission and Radio).
The main problem in tech trading is tech cost. Most techs don't cost the
same to research. And at higher levels the AIs won't give you a tech for
a tech if both cost are the same.
Now there are several things you can do :
1) trade an expensive tech to the AI and getting a cheap tech
2) trade tech + huge amount of gold
3) invest some beakers in a tech until the AI is willing to trade the tech you
were aiming at.

From my turn set :
1) I wanted 3 techs (Communism, Combustion and Industrialism) for Fission
Fission -> ~13000 beakers
Industrialism -> ~15000 beakers
Communism -> ~7000 beakers
Combustion -> ~8000 beakers
You'll never get Industrialism for Fission, same thing for Communism + Combustion.
You will get Communism or Combustion for Fission. Both if trading with 2 AIs.

2) I also wanted Plastics for Radio
Radio -> 14000 beakers
Plastics -> 16000 beakers
Again, you won't get Plastics for Radio.

And those deals had to be made ASAP before the AIs start to research those
techs themselves.

 

[LKendter]

Current plans
Do we want to take out Brennus? That should insure we wouldn't lose to the UN. I haven't heard any response from the team on this idea. The tech situation is even more lopsided and we could easily wipe him off the map.

I am curious why science is only at 50%. If we are going for a space win, then why hold back science? I don't know if the game will last long enough to get payback from cash rushed buildings.
With the love fest on the other island with a massive DP going domination is virtually impossible.

The good news is the coastal defenses continue to improve.
Since we are committed to Wall Street in the Confucian holy city let's get some missionaries out there for the religion. I am glad to see some are under construction.

We need to figure out a location for Scotland Yard. I would like some idea how the AIs are doing in the space race.

While the tech research and trading was confusing to read, we are now in first place for tech.



Roster
LKendter
Tatran
Bede (currently playing)
Swiss Pauli (on deck)
Angeleyes


Remember 15 peace / 10 war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: space.

Small wonders
Heroic Epic - it is built in Production City.
Globe Theater - Is it worth building at this point?
Wall Street - it is under construction in New York. Having a holy city finally makes this worth building.
Oxford - it is being built in Seoul.
Forbidden Palace - it is built in Carthage.
National Epic - it is built in Seoul.
Iron Works - it is built in Production City

 

[Tatran]

Well, if we declare on Brennus we'll get a -1 diplomatic hit with the other
3 leaders. We can delay war until the U.N. actually has been built.
We could send over some of our missionaries to cause the AIs to switch
to Free Religion.

 

[Bede]

As I see it there are three things to accomplish:

1) Grow the population both naturally and through conquest/vassalization of Brennus.
2) Get Mass Media and get the UN built and get voted in as Secretary General
3) Position us to complete a space ship before anyone else

So moving on Brennus may cost us points with Buddhist bloc, but we don't have their votes anyway so an immediate strike against the Celt seems both doable and useful.

Mass Media is difficult to buy (they always have their reasons) so researching it ourselves seems to be in order. That delays the top-line research towards Apollo.

Three Gorges Dam is an important piece in outproducing and outresearching the AI towards the space ship parts.

As far as building Apollo and getting started on space parts I generally prefer delaying research towards Apollo until we have completed research on Computers and Robotics, then building the Program while researching Satellites for nailing the Space Elevator. With Aluminium , Three Gorges Dam, the Space Elevator and Laboratories in all the right places getting space ship parts done in a timely fashion becomes a whole lot easier.

Somewhere along in there also need to find the hammers needed for Scotland Yard.

So, here's the proposal -

Conquer or vassalize the Celt. Put up 3GD in Production City and Scotland Yard in Seoul or some other appropriately hammer heavy town.

Research towards Robotics letting the AI do the research on Rockets and/or Artillery so acquiring them becomes less costly.

So I got it, but will not proceed until tomorrow evening.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

So, here's the proposal -

Conquer or vassalize the Celt. Put up 3GD in Production City and Scotland Yard in Seoul or some other appropriately hammer heavy town.

Research towards Robotics letting the AI do the research on Rockets and/or Artillery so acquiring them becomes less costly.

So I got it, but will not proceed until tomorrow evening.

I don't agree with attacking Brennus - he's the AIs worst enemy and conquering/vassalizing him will give that honour to us. We've traded him quite a lot of techs, so he surely won't fold as easily as the terribly backward Roosevelt. It will also conflict with objectives like 3GD, Space Elevator and Apollo, especially as we've doubled up HE & IW.

I also think that building the UN would be a bad move: the AI builds wonders on a 'pot-luck' basis, so there's a chance they'll not get it built in time. If we build it, we're increasing the chance of a diplo loss as Louis will surely snag the Chairman votes.

I forgot that we didn't have Computers, so I'd agree that this should be the next tech. If we're playing peacefully then Robotics (and SE in Seoul) followed by the top line is a better play than going straight to the top as I had suggested.