LK134 - Native Americans, Donut map, Monarchy

No idea how long this takes. Problem started on friday, ADSL line is completely dead. Repair starts hopefully today. I would quess 1-4 days.
1898 AD
Our Docking Bay was sabotaged and destroyed :mad:

1906 AD
We start researching Fusion and Joao discovers it same turn...

1907 AD
Some luck.

Defy resolution.

1908 AD
And good thing I did.

1909 AD
Great Engineer born and put to sleep. Next GP would come from capital with high change of Great Prophet.

Spies didn't have any option to steal space race techs so I performed counter espionage.

Here are some screenshots regarding space race. I'm not too confident on winning this one :(

1910 AD
We really are in bad shape. We still need the two shield heavy parts, and we can't even build casings.

The -5 happy penalty for defying the UN is brutal.

1919 AD
I try to sabotage Joao's SS stasis chamber and fail. :cry:
(IT) Saladin just became a vassal of Joao.

1922 AD
(IT) OTOH our parts can be sabotaged. :mad:

1925 AD
We get a merchant, and I start a GA.

1926 AD
(IT) This is really getting tiresome. We have another part sabotaged. :wallbash:

1928 AD
(IT) Unless someone knows a way to stop this, I am going to click to officially record a loss.

IMHO these are the keys why we lost:
1) We really bit with the spy game - the number of late game parts being hit proved it. We needed to build those spy buildings a lot early.
2) This is another game where I don't understand why people won't use the whip. Mound city with one shield is really stuck on my brain. That city has awesome cottage, but NO production. That city should have been whipped like clock work every 15 turns.
3) Our economy just sucked. Part of it was not whipping the multiplier buildings, but there was more that I don't understand.
4) Not founding Aluminum Co in our Wall Street city hurt. So did my founding Mining Inc not realizing the overlap problem. However, both of these were late game, and IMHO we already we in trouble.

I am open to comments from other players where we went wrong.
All of what you say is compelling.

I think the turning point came when we didn't take advantage of the opening provided by Charlemagne to take a bite and a vassal agreement out of Egypt. That left an unfriendly vassal state between us and Joao and gave him the opening he needed to distract us at a crucial point and we really had no opportunity for an effective counter - having to go round the long way to reach his borders while he could run the short route through Egypt to harass us at New York.
I would say our biggest disadvantage was land size. Taking land's of Egypt would have given us the edge. That way we could have started war against Joao and destroy his border cities easily.

Joao was a monster from the start so that would have been probably the only way to stop him.
I would say our biggest disadvantage was land size. Taking lands of Egypt would have given us the edge. That way we could have started war against Joao and destroy his border cities easily.

I think having to many recent domination games did influence my decision, and I saw war with Egypt as here we go again - another domination game. I do agree that late game we needed to take Egypt to be able to go toward Joao. Lack of oil also made me afraid of late game wars. I've never fought a late game war without oil.

However, none of this explains why it felt we were behind the curve most of the game. We were in trouble by the time the war with Egypt came. Part of the reason I feared the war with Egypt is our power curve sucked. I am more concerned trying to figure out where the early game problems came from.

So far it sounds like no one knows a way to stop the spaceship.
I am more concerned trying to figure out where the early game problems came from.
Lurker's comment :
Making the wrong decisions grabbing resources. The sugar area should have been yours.
I've also noticed too much wonder building while not having stone and/or marble.
We didn't build any early wonders in LK135 because lacking those resources.
Btw, Charlemagne would have been a much better target. (sugar, ivory, gems)
A late game bad decision, because you're lacking production, not switching to US with so many towns.
Unless I hear an idea by tomorrow, I plan to click this to the end to offically record the loss.
I don't think there's any way to win now. I would see our only real competitor was Joao even from the start. And then we can get back to land size :)
Lurkers comment: After searchign countless times for a way to stop space ships, the only way i could find is this:

Somehow build a space ship that is faster then joao's and would beat him to space victory in less then 1-3 turns. Which i think is extremely unlikely. I think this is a loss.

since joao tends to give players problems and will likely beat you to space race in this sg, i think it might be a nice idea to try him out as LK137.
New Updates
Even while wrapping the game up we suffered more sabotaged parts.

I thought of another thing that hurt us - I don't feel like we had a clue how to take advantage of the UU / UB of the Native Americans. Playing your Civ's strength is a key, and we clearly didn't.

In addition, we never built Globe Theater for a whipping / draft abuse city, or National Park for late game specialist source.

We were in the hole as of 4000 BC. Take a look at how much land Joao had available!

I can't supply more replay info, as we had another game with a broken replay history. :rolleyes:
yah that much space wouldn't be as bad if it was sitting bull or someone there, but it just happened to be joao next to all that space! lol.
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