LK136, Monarch, Byzantine

[Belial]

Got it - with a few suggestions/questions.

How come Thessalonica is working on a granary? It's already happy capped and the beakers from a library and scientists would be quite handy.

I imagine I will whip the library in Adrianople too. Then put it back on military and when the anger is near to coming off, likely whip a granary next.

The archer is in the city suggested location, but the path there is not fogbusted - I'll have to move him (don't think it will cost any turns on getting the settler there, however) to make sure the path is safe.

The suggested city site has the copper and stone in tier 2. That's okay considering we already have metal and we may never be in a culture battle there, but I feel like it should at least be mentioned in case an AI does aggressively settle that putting those two resources in their tier 1.

Are we planning on warring Lincoln? If so, I'll start to toss swordsmen in the mix as well but I think our greatest problem is getting our science and economy back in order which means instead of additional swords, a couple or three workers. We're -1 gpt with 1 gold in our coffer. Not sure about everyone else, but I generally like to run a positive cash unless im trying to defifict spend on something that has great value and I can do it without bottoming out.

Suprisingly, the first person to alphabet is Ragnar and he lacks iron working which is by no means a trade that he will ever offer us. With the added libraries and scientists, I think our best bet would be to head down mathematics or metal casting (math for pre-req to calendar and bulb for philosophy while metal casting is always great trade value if teched early). I would be more inclined towards masonry if we were going after a wonder, but as far as I know, we have yet to discuss one.

I hope I don't seem overly critical, especially about minor, insignificant things like an archer not fogbusting a safe path. but I like to try and contribute the aspects that I play the game in (right or wrong).

 

[Kodii]

I know that it wasn't fogbusted, but I forgot to suggest that you send another archer or the axeman down with the settler as an escort.

I remembered to switch Constantinople's granary but not Thessalonica's

 

[Belial]

Alright, so I open the save again and I already mentioned most of the things that I would be changing.

Sailing as a pre-req for calendar is good, but getting ivory, stone and copper all hooked up will have to be through road since we do not have an OB with Lincoln and his city is the only harbor city that will connect our empire via water.

I drop the slider science slider to 50% so we can continue to grow our treasury. I expect a lot of micromanagement this round to stabilize our next city.

Without calendar, chopping the jungle on calendar resources is not as important as non-jungle, cottageable land (it still needs to be done, but we do not have workers to spare - and again, it will not likely be working the tiles that could be cottaged because of scientists.)

After about ten minutes of double-checking everything, I finally click to next turn.

Turn 131: Constaninople - settler -> axeman.

Turn 132: Adrianople expands getting us fish. Ragnar has enough on his hands right now - wonder who that victim could be.

Turn 133: Sailing is in and I start us on aesthetics - this is for trade value the AI usually ignores it and hopefully we can snag alphabet and broker that around for anything that we may need.

Turn 135: Lincoln asks if he can walk in our lands which I politely decline.

Turn 136: Adrianople - axeman -> library. Nicea is founded and a monument is set in motion. While founding Nicea, a barbarian city located slightly to the west is spotted and it looks to be in a good position. Two problems, though - it's on a hill so the AI will likely give the defenders a fair amount of xp before we can get to it or if the AI does get it before we do then our copper will be under cultural pressure (both tier 2 for each city). I also drop the slider down to 40%.

Turn 139: Constaninople - axeman -> axeman. Thessalonica gets a library whipped.

Turn 140: Jao converts to Jew.

Turn 145: Well, that settles that as Ragnar declares on Saladin. Also, Jao now has alphabet for sale. I whip the library in Adrianople.

A few notes to pass.

- Our science should be twice as good as it was before and we have a good chance to score some trades to get us back into the tech-game. Our first scientist should build an academy (short-term, Constantinople should get it, but for long-term Thessalonica is the best spot without a doubt. The second scientist should bulb philosophy.)

-The workers by Nicea should hook up the ivory first rather than chop the jungle. In two turns, the monument should be whipped here also. The added happy from ivory will help with the next set of troop pushing via the whip. The worker in Thessalonica is needed, but use the whip to get some swordsmen out (or spears since we have zero), and then use the overflow to build the worker.

-At some point, we should consider getting a library into Constantinople and that really depends on how we want to playout the next few sets. We could use swordsmen to take down Lincoln and do it fairly fast but it will be crucial to use the whip to get out the swordsmen. I figure 6-8 swords to start the iniative is plenty since we can choke him off onto a forest tile. I also did not see anything other than archers so perhaps he is without metal. Regardless, if we do plan to war him, we should certainly scout out the land he does have. The good from warring him is it eliminates a front that we have to defend heavily and we get extra coin to spend on defecit spending for science. The bad is that we may lose out on some decent spots to our west yet and there are still a few spots worth settling that are fairly close; also - it's going to cost to have an aggressive military at this stage of the game.

-Be sure to use scientists when necessary, the science may juggle around a bit, but getting another citizen on a cottage and then rehiring two scientist is better play.

-I would also ally with Ragnar should he ask us to declare on Saladin, I see no eminent threat from Saladin and getting Ragnar on good terms (since he is what appears to be the tech-leader) and using him to hopefully do some of the dirty business on the religious front is a good idea. Thoughts?

-Also, I think in Lee's set, we may have to put a few turns into alphabet so we can trade aesthetics for it.

 

[TheLastOne36]

Lurkers comment:
Ok, this is my first time looking at this SG, and i think your biggest fear shouldn't be Lincoln or Ragnar or anybody, but rather Joao. Joao has two traits, Expansive , which means faster worker production, and Imperialistic, which means fast settler production. He later becomes a major power in your game due to:
1. Alot of land and cities
2. Alot of cities producing military (hint hint) He is going to expand like heck into there is no more room on the continent. My advice? Settle the surrounding lands (particularly near Constantinople) as quickly as possible. Deny him from having land that should be yours. I bet you Joao already has a settling party heading your way.

Just my 2 cents. count me in as an official lurker.

 

[LKendter]

Turn 135: Lincoln asks if he can walk in our lands which I politely decline.

What was your reasoning behind this? I've found trapped AIs more likely to declare on you, and so far Lincoln is the only one to appear from the east.

 

[Belial]

I'm not against giving him open borders, I just didn't want him to put a settler past us - regardless if he does or does not, we can still just take the city afterwards.

That would have freed up a worker from roading to the city (although, I still prefer it did get roaded).

 

[LKendter]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK136_BC-0200.CivBeyondSwordSave


410 BC
(IT) The AI is going crazy this game. Monty just went to war with Huayna.


395 BC
Nicaea has its monument whipped.


365 BC
Portugal is becoming a pain, and already stole the pigs and corn area.


290 BC
Lincoln's culture is becoming a pain. We no longer have a land route to our iron city.

=======================

New Updates
Lincoln has a galley sitting in New York. I opened borders hoping any setter would take a land route. Constantinople is building a settler for the horse location (island?). Whip the galley in Nicaea by the time the settler is built. I really want horses at some point.


Roster
LKendter
Speedster (currently playing)
Kodii (on deck)
Belial
Playshogi (skip to Nov 3)


Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open.

Planned wars - none.

 

[Belial]

We're still in okay position. It's a jungle heavy start with limited spots for us and limited military resources. Certainly not an gimmie start.

I would suggest firing the scientists in Thessalonica and change from a worker to a swordsmen and let the city grow to happy cap and then whip the sword and use the overflow on the worker and then queue up another swordsmen. It should then rehire the scientists to put our beaker back up to an acceptable amount.

Adrianople can grow to size 5 also and should change from granary to a swordsmen which it should whip upon reaching size 5 and then put the overflow into the granary and queue up another swordsmen and also rehire the scientist(s).

After the settler in constantinopple finishes, we should whip a library there, it's our biggest commerce city right now.

After Nicea finishes it's galley, it should start on a barracks - this should be a fairly productive military city for us and it will likely be on our front with the Incans (if Montezuma doesn't annihilate them).

Jao settled a fairly impressive city, but the most important part to see is that it will also claim ivory and not the corn. We can settle the corn city for a riverside (woot, river!) cottage city, but getting the horses would be better for an additional two happy is better than getting the riverside cottages. Jao's city also does not yet claim pigs and we could steal that in our tier 1 with a fish city - albeit aggressive, but still a fairly productive city for us. If we wanted to do that, though, we would have to pass on the horse city for now.

I am suggesting swords for gearing up to take on either Lincoln, or the barb city to our southwest. I think it would be easier to take out Lincoln than the barb city on the hill, but there is more coin to gain from taking out Lincoln than the barb city. Thoughts?

On another note, while the UB for Byzantine is nice, it also fails to stress the importance of not being able to hire artists for culturally pressed cities.

*EDIT*

Also, we could declare on Saladin and bring our relations with Ragnar up to pleased within a set or two. Hopefully he will be willing to parth with mathematics in that case.

*REDIT* Jao has too much on his hands right now. He has a couple of people he's annoyed at, but definately want to keep an eye on that.

***Too much time on my hands*** We have a cottage being made near Nicea and it was actually my fault for chopping jungle down in the wrong spot. We probably want to save that tile to help bring irrigation to rice. My apologies.

 

[LKendter]

We probably want to save that tile to help bring irrigation to rice. My apologies.

UGG - I was on that one.
I agree - please cancel, and then put signs for CS irrigation.

 

[LKendter]

Roster
LKendter
Speedster (currently playing)
Overdue for got it, and heading toward skip.

Kodii (on deck)
Belial
Playshogi (skip to Nov 3)


Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open.

Planned wars - none.

 

[SeerTenedos]

Suggest keeping away from the jungle, and letting it bog the Joao down. Until you get some more economic power, via more pop, and tech I don't think it's in your best interest to expand further (with the possible exception of a horse city). Your cities are far flung, and require alot of workers.

Since you have OB Abe, why not take a peek and see what he's got? He may be easily razed for some good coin, providing a single front.

Soon your going to be forced to pick sides. One or two friends go alot further than 6 cautious empires. The enemy of my enemy is my friend supposedly. I personally would befriend rags, and then pick between montey or inca, leaning towards inca. Joao looks like a good candidate for 'enemy'.

 

[Speedster]

Sorry for the delay guys.

I did not expect this to come back to me so fast.

I can play tonight.

 

[Speedster]

Turns played

Before pressing enter i canceled the cottage construction and placed irrigation signs near Nicaea.

I switched Thessalonica to a sword and fired the scientists to max growth.
Adrianople received the same treatment.

Turn 2:
We regain the land route to Adrianople culturally.

Turn 3:
Aesthetics learned, I set research to Alphabet.
Nicaea gets a border pop.

Turn 5:
Thessalonica grows to size 5 so I whip the sword for 1 pop.

Turn 6:
Joao is willing to trade Alphabet for Aesthetics. I sweat 10 minutes over this before deciding to NOT do the trade. Joao is shaping up to become our main enemy in the future and I did not want to give him any kind of a head start.

Ragnar is completely unwilling to trade Alpha and I did not want to DOW Saladin since he and Joao shares religion. Instead I did a rather unorthodox move and gave Ragnar clams for free, in hopes that this would appeal to his better side. Please cancel this deal if it is pure

A jewish missionary is approaching Constantinople.

Thessalonica continues on the worker and I whip Adrianople for 1 pop.

Turn 7:
HC demands that we cancel our deals with Montezuma. Since he is the score leader and quite close to our borders i cave in.

Settler is ready in Constantinople and I whip the galley in Nicaea.

Lincoln is willing to trade Alphabet for Aesthetics so I make the trade!

I set research to Masonry (prereq for construction).

Turn 8:
Worker done in Thessalonica -> Spearman. The scientists are rehired to avoid growth into unhappiness.
Granary done in Adrianople -> Spearman.

An event happens.....:

Four (4) bloody barbarian spearmen!!
I move the two axes from Nicaea onto jungle plots next to the spearmen to taunt them into attacking.

Turn 9:
The barbs do not take the bait so I move the axes back to Nicaea.

HC demands Alphabet... After quite some thinking I decide to cave in. The basis for this decision is the same as when cancelling deals with Montezuma. We are not ready for an assault from the score leader.

The barracks in Constantinople finishes and I start a library.

I sent a warrior into America which unveils Lincolns territory. Plenty of food but no metals, horses or elephants.

Constantinople is jewish.

Turn 10:
Montezuma built the Oracle and our scouting warrior died to a barbarian archer.

The barbarian spearmen advances up to Nicaea (without pillaging!!).
I manage to trap our two workers between the spearmen and a road from the barbarian city
I decided to gamble (I did not want to be the cause of loosing two workers) and move one axe and the scouting archer on top of the workers, leaving Nicaea defended by two archers and an axe...

Turn 11: All four barbarians suicides against our defenders in Nicaea with out killing anyone

Masonry is learnt and I set our research to Mathematics.

Turn 13: A GS is born in Thessalonica. We are still a very long way from Philosophy, so I send him to Constantinople for an academy.

Horse city (Antioch) is settled. It is indeed an island and it is completely void of any other resources but the horses.

Turn 14:
The library in Constantinople is whipped for two pop and the academy is constructed.

Adrianople will grow into unhappiness next turn, so I hire a scientist.

Turn 15:
A granary is started in Constantinople.
We get another event (much better this time )

Our surroundings:

Washington looks like the perfect spot for a future globe theatre...

Aesthetics has still got good trade value.


The save

 

[LKendter]

New Updates
I agree that Washington would make a great GT location.

I am not sure why we are building a monument in Antioch. There is nothing useful in the second ring. Can that become a granary, as this the only way that city will go anywhere. That city has no spare food, so a granary followed by a lighthouse is the only way it will get to a useful size.

Can we swap to military in Constantinople? My opinion hasn't changed that a granary is not needed at this time. I would also like to start concentrating on military trained with a barracks.

Roster
LKendter
Speedster
Kodii (currently playing)
Belial (on deck)
Playshogi (skip to Nov 3)


Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open.

Planned wars - none.

 

[Kodii]

Got it most likely for tomorrow.

 

[Belial]

I think we settled the scientist in the wrong city, not a big deal since eventually Constaninople will be shifted towards commerce (after we free up some space between Joao).

I think it would have been better to declare on Saladin than give him clams, however I would have waited to find out who Joao is going to declare on. Speaking of which (I haven't looked at the save yet), did he declare on anyone in your set? Does he still have too mucn on his hands? Maybe he was talking about the barb city next to us too. Lots of factors to be figured in.

I think we should pick either Montezuma or Ragnar to befriend and to keep the western side in constant havoc. Since we already took a diplo hit with Montezuma then we most definately keep Ragnar happy and keeping the Incans at a relatively peaceful state. (Don't reject silly offers like clams, or a backwards tech for example).

As for whipping, lets try to keep it around 2 whip pops because when it's a two-pop whip, we can regrow back to happy cap (slower and usuall working commerce tiles) whilest a one-pop whip means we're already at happy cap. One pop whips are okay when we absolutely need something or the overflow will be put into a settler for max amount of shields.

Also, we won't need a granary in Constaninople for a while. It can grow back anything we whip from it fast enough to not to absolutely need a granary. Getting one online before we get additional happy resources would be ideal so it can grow to happy cap as fast as possible. I'm glad to see a barracks here finally also as it seems to be the #1 producer as well as commerce (that might be different since the last save, but I suspect it's stilly fairly close on both).

I don't like going the math route, however. We settled a horse city mainly for our UB (at least I think?) so getting drama also has a high priority. I would trade Aesthetics for math or drama for math (bit of a waste beaker for beaker, but math is something we do need for our wonderful elephants/construction). Drama is also the way to land us philosophy.

I think to cap off our expansion phase, we should place the corn city. 1SE of corn if memory serves me right and then focus on expansion though military means.

I have to admit, I'm fairly suprised we did not see more barbs (big change of pace for me) than what we did. Usually jungle-infested areas are notorious for barbs all over the place.

*Edit* Everyone knows mathematics now, definately a bad idea to continue that route. Might take the diplo hit to trade Monte alphabet for mathematics. That's arguable but will give more trade value from aesthetics. (I doubt we can net much more from it, but eh - it's still out there; monarchy comes to mind). Also, I would change the monument to a lighthouse first. It can only work one 2-food tile and I do not think a granary can save that food-poor city until there are at least a couple additional 2-food tiles.

 

[LKendter]

Also, we won't need a granary in Constaninople for a while.

I am glad to see you agree.

Also, I would change the monument to a lighthouse first. It can only work one 2-food tile and I do not think a granary can save that food-poor city until there are at least a couple additional 2-food tiles.

Good point - we need that city to even have food to put in the granary. I change my vote to lighthouse, then granary. Don't be afraid to whip both of those. We need them both for the city to go anywhere.
I wanted both, I just didn't think the order out as well...

 

[Kodii]

T0 25AD - I order up a Lighthouse followed by a Granary in Antioch; Constantinople is switched to military; Joao has not yet declared war, but still has enough on his hands; I switch research to Drama, and decide to wait for an opportunity to trade for Mathematics (We cannot trade Alphabet to Monty as he will not talk to us)

T1 40AD - Hinduism spreads to Antioch (good thing we cancelled the Monument)

T6 115AD - Joao declares war on Ragnar

T9 160AD - Saladin asks us to declare war on Ragnar, but I refuse

The situation has not changed very much. Nearly all of our cities are now producing military. A settler will be ready to found our city 1SE of the corn in 2 turns.

The tech situation has not changed much either. Only Saladin acquired Aesthetics during my turnset, so it still has value.

The AIs are still at war.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96336/LK136_AD-0250.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Belial]

Got it.

Will look at it tomorrow though and again, weekends are busy for me but the latest I should have it up is Sunday.

 

[LKendter]

New Updates
For the short term I see just one goal - salvage our economy. We are down to a lousy 30% with another city being planned. I know we are running some scientist to help, but long term we need to get courts and matured cottages to survive.
Can we disband our warriors? We are paying $9 already in unit costs, and IMHO can't afford to waste this on obsolete units.

After drama we need to work on economic techs - currency and code of laws.


Roster
LKendter
Speedster
Kodii
Belial (currently playing - and already got it)
Playshogi (on deck)


Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open.

Planned wars - none.