LK136, Monarch, Byzantine

Everything is up and running again, but seeing as how far everything has progressed, I'm not sure if it makes sense for me to just pop back into the roster. It'll take a while for me to catch up, so if you don't think its too much of a deal for me to join in again, I'll need some time. Sorry that I've been away so long. :(
 
New Updates

Roster
LKendter
Speedster (currently playing)
Kodii (on deck)
Belial
Playshogi


Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open.

Planned wars - the destruction of Huayna.
 
Got it.

Will play tonight European time.

I do not think building another shrine is the way to go.
Spreading confucianism (or islam) can be quite tricky, as almost every city has at least two religions already.

I think settling the prophet in our wall street city is the way to go.
 
Got it.

Will play tonight European time.

I do not think building another shrine is the way to go.
Spreading confucianism (or islam) can be quite tricky, as almost every city has at least two religions already.

I think settling the prophet in our wall street city is the way to go.

:hmm:
I wonder if we should delay a day to get more input. So far we have two for shrine, and two for settle.

At this point given a choice of settle or GA, I learn toward GA.
Of course, we may want to save the first GA for a junk specialist such as artist.
 
I could go either way with settling, or Islamic shrine. The Islamic shrine already has at least 9 cities and provides culture in an area of the world where we need it and we might even want to build Wall St. in that city depending on what we find there when we capture it.
 
Played my turns.

I did not see LK's and Playshogis comments before playing. :blush:

On the matter of the Prophet, I did not do anything with him. He is sitting in the Islamic holy city, awaiting orders.

The reason for not doing anything with the Prophet is that I believe he is best used to start a GA when the war with HC ends.

Financially, we are in no dire straits (50% sci with +10 gpt) and those figures will only get better in a few turns :)

The report:

I did not change much in the IHT.
I hired merchants only in Adrianople.
I also allowed Nicomedia to grow, since the jail would finish in two turns.
When checking our most recent acqusitions, I noticed that Corihuayrachina came with a shining Sistine Chapel. Nice!! this will help us greatly in the cultural battles before broadcast towers are online.

Turn 1, 1742 AD
My turn set started with an event, giving one of the mines outside Guimaraes two additional hammers due to tin findings. :)
The next thing that happened was that HC made peace with Saladin and Montezuma. Sal and Monty are still in war with Ragnar though.
I use our spy in Tiwanaku to incite a revolt.
1 suicide trebuchet is followed by the storm.
I loose two cavalries at absurd odds :mad: however, Tiwanaku falls. When opening the city screen, I find that we are the proud owners of the statue of Zeuss as well as the Versailles :)
The city also had three artists settled.


Turn 2, 1744 AD
Steam power came in and I set research to Steel.
Our empire is quite large, and we will need rails pretty soon to transport troops to the front.
We have coal in three locations, one of the deposits is in a mined hill inside Constantinoples BFC.


Turn 4, 1748 AD
Our water supply in Thessalonica is poisoned :(


Turn 5, 1750 AD
My spy failed to incite a revolt in Cuzco, so I have to resort to siege engines to do the work.


Turn 6, 1752 AD
A farm outside Lisbon is destroyed.
The assault on Cuzco is launched.
I send in three suicide trebuchets. All three survives :)
Despite the collateral damage, our initial attacks only have ~70% chance of success.
However, this turn was indeed golden. Not a single loss!
A great general was born. I sent him to Nicaea.
Cuzco is captured.
It comes with (amongst much) a market, a grocer and the Mahabodhi (33 gpt) hence my comment at the beginning. :)
Cuzco also contains almost every single world wonder as well as a military academy and 4 military instructors.


Turn 8, 1756 AD
The Forbidden palace is built in Guimaraes.


Turn 9, 1758 AD
Saladin adopts Universal suffrage and Emancipation.


Turn 10, 1760 AD
Steel is discovered, I set research to Railroad.

We have one stack sitting in Cuzco and another positioned outside Huamanga.

HC is willing to capitulate, however, I recommend that we take at least Huamanga and maybe Braga, to allow easier spread of culture, before we vassalize him.

We have a great general sitting in Nicaea. I was unsure whether to settle him, build an academy or create a warlord, so I left him sitting for the team to decide.

I whipped Washington every second turn, but unfortunately, I forgot to whip it the last turn :crazyeye:


The save
 
Building one shrine or the other does not really solve the problem of it being harder to spread religions (I usually don't find the task too difficult, in all honesty).

At this stage in the game, though, I see settling the prophet as a bigger loss than a gain from either a GA or another shrine. A prophet in the wall street is... 15 gpt? Or so, that's only a few missionaries to be sent to counter that with the shrine and it potentially has much more than 15gpt.

It would be arguable that a GA is the way to go as well and we have a lot of buildings which we will need in the newly acquired lands so it's not a bad deal with that either. But as Lee mentioned; it's better suited for a junk great person (junk great person? sounds mildly olxymoronic. :p).

As far as vassalizing Incans, we should look into how much of the world we own and start aiming closer to how much we need before making the final move. It would be nice to not have to war Saladin as he does (at least I would assume) have a fair bit of military. And we've been feeding him military techs to stay on par with us as well so it could potentially prolong the game. Of course, that might be the only way, but it's better to keep things simple.
 
New Updates
I just realized Lisbon has Scotland Yard. Can we build a jail next since it is worth 4x2 EP?

I would like to capture Vilcas next, as it will greatly help in keeping our supply lines open. Not to mention we need to get rid of the culture near Tiwanaku.

We can now build Iron Works - I would like to propose Constantinople as our second best shield city.
I hate iron works with HE and our HE city is our best shield city. In case you are wondering why I dislike the HE / IW combo, it is because the IW city is the best place to build wonders. Therefore, the HE is wasted.

After railroad I would democracy, as we are starting to suffer emancipation anger. I don't want to revolt until forced, but I would like the option. Newly captured cities really need the whip to kill of most of the angry native population.

I vote for the Islamic shrine with the priest. We need to make sure we build some Islamic monasteries ASAP in our high production citeis.

I would like our GG to build an academy, and really start pumping out the troops.


Roster
LKendter
Speedster
Kodii (currently playing)
Belial (on deck)
Playshogi


Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open.

Planned wars - the destruction of Huayna
 
We should think about converting to Buddhism so that all those Buddhist buildings can earn 2:gold: because we captured the Spiral Minaret. All of our cities have Buddhism. We should probably trade Music to Joao to adopt Org. Rel. and then next turn trade him something to convert to Buddhism as well. Then spread buddhism to Lincoln so we can attempt Diplomatic victory. It's too bad we razed that Incan town because of the negative modifiers should we vassalize Huayna.

Keep the war going so we get more Buddhist votes.
BTW, I think Machu Picchu has the Apostolic Palace. Huayna is researching Communism. Can we dare keep him alive long enough for him to build the Kremlin for us? With all our towns, a switch to Universal Suffrage, might make sense in the future.

Edit: Oops, Machu Picchu belongs to Saladin.
 
I still haven't had the chance to catch up and I don't have time to play today, so if Belial can get to it first, go ahead.
 
Tonight is not so hot, but tomorrow is not so much a problem.

Can swap for then if you like or you can pick it up tomorrow.
 
390
- This looks like a diplomatic victory, and it is very nearly wrapped up.
- Changed esp 100% rags
- Huayna capitulates
- I dont give anything back to the Incans, but I don't take anything else. We have the good bits. Let the incans keep the other bits.
- Prophet used to GA, as I dont believe there are enough turns remaining to make a shrine viable.
-Switch Antioch to a caravel
-Nichomedia is making a jewish missionary instead of a taoist one
- Inca parts with Fur Deer Marble and OB in return for copper and coal
- Revolt into Police State, Vassalage, and Theocracy. From here on in it's just a meat grinder, with a few glances at our commerce to make sure we dont botch it. This does have the negative side effect of hurting our research rate, but improves our warmongering.
-Found deposits of workers, told them to do afew tile improvements
-Woke William up. Getting an Academy in Nicaea
-Deleted a fortified settler. It's not that there arn't afew nice spots open to us, it's just that I don't think they are going to have time to become assets. I also see no reason for city razings/replantings.
-Misc troop replacement to take into account that we are no longer at war with incans
-Our 'navy' moves to preform transport troops to the American 'Empire'
-Our Great Prophet starts a golden age. I don't believe there are enough turns left in the game to make a shrine viable.
-Spies are aggressively re-deployed closer to our front lines
- Main forces redeployed around Jelling and Haithabu.
- New forces originating from the east en route to Atlanta/Philly
- I declare war on Lincoln

391
- Science rate goes up to 60% at +9gpt
- Oxford is made
-Troops near Haithabu, spy is having a nap inside
-More jews are being made and spread

392
-Random Event 'mother lode' 35ish gold
-Land troops on 'Atlanta'
-Troops near Jelling, no spare spies on site, but Joao is bombarding the place
-More troops near Haithabu

393
-spy in haithabu caught, what a waste of hard earned espionague
-Atlanta taken (no losses)
-Jelling taken (one or two losses)
-Haithabu taken (lost most siege, and one cavalry it was 1 catapult and 5? trebs anyhow)
-Vikings Capitulate
-OB, Wine, Sheep, in return for our fish and clam with ragnar.
esp re-focused for an emphasis on saladin. Montey is abit too abroad for our current state
-Assult on Philadelphia is being organized. The last American city
-I am of the opinion that taking on Saladin is an 'optional'. I am sending the cavalry to scout the land out. Vassalizing Saladin would secure an AP Diplomatic victory
-Science raised to 70% running a slight negative to burn off some of this surplus gold we keep bumping into for taking misc land.
-Rags agrees to become a jew for token tech. I also liberate Jelling because Ragnar was a good sport. (it's also in a bad spot and has nothing useful)

394
-HC asks to trade world maps. I accept, as the intel will do him little good.
-3 galley depart washington and atlanta seeking fortune in philly, guarded by a ferocious caravel
-Afew random obsolete troops gifted to rags.
-I arm HC with some war tech in return we get Divine Right and Scientific Method. I was debating Scientific Method, and ultimately decided to take it, as progress is required, even if it sometimes means one step back and two steps forward. Turns out we have a couple oil patches. What luck.
-Armies re-merge at Haithabu for a short rest and redeployment while esp points accumulate into Saladini and afew cannons are brought in to replace lost catapults
-Science is raised to 80% Somehow we managed to get over 1.5k gold, which is abit over the top. I got this game with 400ish gold if I recall, no need to grow that quickly in the bank. We are up to 931 beakers temporarily

395
-A small army lands on Philly
-'Sea Battle' Our might caravel beats up a galley
-Lisbon revolts temporarily
-some workers go back to rest, nothing else to do again
-recon on Saladin reveals he is not prepared for a land war at all! Dispite all the warning we gave him with HC, Rags and Lincoln
-Judaism spreads in Ainu
-Judaism spreads in Oporto

396
-Saladin enters a GA
-Philly is taken. Lincoln runs out of backwater islands to hide
-I think at this point with 4t to go I will leave the choice of warring Saladin to the next player, as well as decisions about how to wadge this war. I will mostly coast through the rest of the turn set making abit more military and afew more spies while pumping esp points into saladini. Troops are being re-deployed to cover weak spots in our backfield the enemy has access to.

397
-Revolt in Guimares or some such place. Never heard of it.
-Jewishism spread to Andahuaylas
-A worker cuts down a tree
-Deploy a small 'high velocity' army north to join the rag tag army waiting there, while the riflemen etc. stay behind to form up the main body of a possible assult on Saladini. Note there is more military around than meets the eye, with troops en route, and scouts all over their teritory.

398
-Joao dislikes his gpt deal. I rehaggle it.
-I haggle a gpt deal with rags
-Apparently Ainu was making a grocer and is now doing wall street.
-Judaism spread in Tlatelolco
-Saladin appears to be catching on to the fact that the writing is on the walls, and is building military

399
Nothing of interest seems to happen. I click end turn.

400
-RR comes in. Handily enough I was being slack on the rifles, so there are some good places to put them.
-Our GA ends
-Montey gets a great merchant
-Saladin adopts 'State Property'

Well my turn set is over. Suggest gifting Joao a ton of tech, he is looking a little backwards. I believe it is possible to have one army sweep the north, another army down south on the defensive to take out the Saladin stack in Machu Picchu, and a third party take out the core cities with the aid of spies, and heavy siege in the midlands. I put research to Astronomy, but I am not too picky about it. I am just getting tired, this was a long turnset. On the plus side it looks like we made some good headway with the incans, vikings, and americans, while taking in afew good techs. A diplomatic victory appears inevitable.

PS Workers and railroads. I sort of forgot to start the workers up on turn 400. They are hiding someplace or other. Thanks for taking care of it.

Suggested Win target: diplomatic

Planned wars - Possible attack on Saladini for the sake of entertainment
 

Attachments

- Lisbon revolts temporarily
-Revolt in Guimares or some such place. Never heard of it.
This is really getting tiresome. I continue to get tired of turning civs into vassals. I really wish we had taken out all of Portugal.
FYI - the city you never heard of is our FP city. :(


PS Workers and railroads. I sort of forgot to start the workers up on turn 400. They are hiding someplace or other. Thanks for taking care of it.
Please wake out workers and start to rail with the emphasis on lines of communication to the front lines.


- This looks like a diplomatic victory, and it is very nearly wrapped up.
...
Huayna capitulates
...
Suggested Win target: diplomatic
:confused:
This is a totally unexpected change of direction from our domination plans. Having Huayna surrender with owning so much territory left just made domination a lot harder.

I would like to understand
1) Where the sudden change of direction with NO team discussion came from?
2) Why do you think diplomatic is a sure thing?
With taking another vassal this makes domination a lot harder.



Planned wars - Possible attack on Saladin for the sake of entertainment
This war is rejected if the only purpose is "entertainment". I know I am the atypical player, but I find war the least enjoyable part of Civ. IMHO this is one area where Civ4 is worse then Civ3. War was so much easier for me to tolerate in Civ3.
 
6) SGs are about cooperative team play. If you aren't willing to discuss plans before and / or after your turn, then the LK series isn't for you. Example of discussion that is expected:
a) Early game dot map planning
b) Any war against a direct neighbor (except land grab from a civ getting slaughtered)

- I declare war on Lincoln
This felt wrong at first, but looking over my latest war guidelines it does qualify as America was already slaughter by some mean civ. :satan: :satan:


OTOH this sudden shift to diplomatic victory should have been discussed.
 
The game is near over, we have enough military to win either by diplomatic or domination with the latter more likely.

The latter is also more time consuming and trying to wrap up the game in the shortest amount of time may also involve a few more turnsets. We likely have enough votes to win an AP win now actually and I can check that later tonight.

The game is really open on how to wrap it up. We have the tech-lead, we have the most land, we have the most population, we have the most diplomatic votes and we have the most production.

Domination can still be won by owning the entire world with vassals too. :king:
 
Out of curiosity, what aspect of war bugs you so much? I find them pretty easy to wage (and usually with few troops. :p)
 
Out of curiosity, what aspect of war bugs you so much? I find them pretty easy to wage (and usually with few troops. :p)

Do you have time for me to write a novel?
 
I believe we must get back to free speach to give our recent cities a chance to stay out of revolt.

I am not sure, but the positive effects from buildings (wonders) may temporarily disappear if the city is in a revolt.
If my guess is correct, Cuzco (with the buddhist shrine) and Tiwanaku (with the Versailles) are quite crucial, financially, and must stay out of revolts.

Please correct me if I am wrong on this subject.
 
The civ-wide wonders work, even if the host city is in revolt, for example, Spiral Minaret gave 2:gold: per state religion building as soon as we captured it. Versailles should function also, but no income from the shrine, since that's a single city wonder.

Who plays next?

We likely have enough votes to win an AP win now actually and I can check that later tonight.

To win diplo by AP, requires us to change to Buddhism because it doubles our voting power. The AP is Buddhist, right? Also, didn't the latest patch take away diplomatic victories, where a single player can vote himself the winner?
 
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