LK136, Monarch, Byzantine

[Speedster]

I know I am repeating myself, but Washington is too big in pop again. It shouldn't be this large if we are whipping it every other turn.

I whipped Washington every other turn.
However, on the last turn, after Lincoln had stolen all but one sea-food, I was unsecure about what to do, and hence, did not crack the whip. It is still perfectly doable to whip in the IHT.

I am still baffled how that culture spread for Lincoln came into being. In one turn we had plenty of cultural control of the tiles and were clearly making progress in getting the first stolen sea-food back. Then in the next second, Bang, Lincoln stole two more sea-food and we lost ground in the first as well.

 

[LKendter]

By eliminating Lincoln we allow Inca the possibility to win diplomatic victory.

Ooops - I forgot about that headache. Cancel the plans to immediate attack on Lincoln.

However, on the last turn, after Lincoln had stolen all but one sea-food, I was unsecure about what to do, and hence, did not crack the whip. It is still perfectly doable to whip in the IHT.

Whip it the IHT. Even if we have less food for the moment, it still has plenty to keep whipping. I would whip anymore possible culture ASAP.

I am still baffled how that culture spread for Lincoln came into being. In one turn we had plenty of cultural control of the tiles and were clearly making progress in getting the first stolen sea-food back. Then in the next second, Bang, Lincoln stole two more sea-food and we lost ground in the first as well.

Those tiles had a ton of left over culture from when Washington was an American city. However, since he had no current culture it was meaningless. Once Atlanta expanded its borders the left over culture from Washington kicked in, and that is why we lost the tiles.

 

[playshogi]

Would the best use of a potential Great Prophet be to found a shrine? Our 2 holy cities are the smallest religions in the game and many of our cities already have 3 religions making it difficult to spread another, so maybe a GA with a Great Prophet would pay off a lot sooner, especially since we plan to capture the Buddhist shrine.

 

[LKendter]

IIRC we are heavy in Jew & Bud. I can't recall the other religions, but do recall that there spread was useless.
I vote prophet = GA.

 

[Belial]

I'm easy-going. A GA is fine too.

My thought is we do not Ragnar and Incans to become best of friends so the shrine would possibly be built and then sending him missionaries to him first and then to us.

Don't forget the GA is for 10 turns while the shrine is until the end of the game. One of the better features a GA is the ability to switch civics too, but being spiritual dismisses that bonus. My main problem with domination wins is always enough military, but not enough income to keep the upkeep down as I continually add cities to the empire (usually in rapid succession).

 

[LKendter]

My thought is we do not Ragnar and Incans to become best of friends so the shrine would possibly be built and then sending him missionaries to him first and then to us.

I forgot about trying to break up Ragnar and Inca. I would rather not keep helping AIs with spreading Jew & Bud.
I reverse my comment, and vote for a shrine.
Of course, this is conditional upon getting a prophet...

My main problem with domination wins is always enough military, but not enough income to keep the upkeep down as I continually add cities to the empire (usually in rapid succession).

That is so true. Even as you capture them it takes to long to get courts and markets in place. Throwing in that extra cash from a shrine does help.

 

[Belial]

Micromanage into huge empires is always brutal but sometimes it just needs to be done.

Ainu: Remove the citizens working on a windmills and put them on cottages.
Leiria: Swapped from grassland farm to a cottage. Also engineer is fired and a merchant is hired instead for a turn as the library is whipped and a scientist next turn willl be hired.
Oporto: Remove the mine in favor of a cottage. Spy is fired and an engineer is hired instead.
Lisbon. This city has three great military instructors inside the city so I will change this city into production. It also has Scottland Yark so the spy is kept.
Constantinople fires the engineer and sets him onto a lumbermill.
Thessalonica: I am impressed with this city now that it got the TLC it rightfully deserved. The spy is fired in favor of a scientist.
Nicea: I fire the spy in favor of an engineer. This place also needs a lighthouse.
Antiloch: We're up to 45 hammers a turn here. After the two buddhist buildings, it will start on galleys for the (eventual) removal of Lincoln.
New York: Spy is fired in favor of a scientist.
Washington: Fire the spy in favor of an artist and whip the buddhist missionary.
Guimaras: Swapped from courthouse to granary.

Overall not to bad. Just nixing the overall spies in favor of science and economy to get the ball rolling.

I drop the tech slider down to 10% for a little bit of cash surplus and the eventual promoting of our CR3 maces into rifles. Rifling still due in one.

The technological front: As expected, the vikings went for chemistry and by the looks of it, sold it to the Incans. I would expect Ragnar to next get grenadiers and we should leverage replaceable parts and a few turns invested into military science for that. Saladin will declare on Ragnar now, but that does not help us much and we don't have enough to offer him to get him to declare on the Incans. I suspect that to change when we can trade him replaceable parts.

I change all espionage into the Incans, we can see what Saladin is teching and we will see the following tech which is all we need (for now), but that should be slightly changed once his new tech is discovered so we can keep an eye on what we should tech and be able to trade him.

We took a big hit from Ragnar switching from Jewish to Buddhist as well. Big hit as in we can not trade with him. Depending on what comes available, we may wind up switching in and out of HR just for some practical trades with him.

Turn 347: Rifling is in and I start us up on music (pre-req for cavalry). Nicea: Treb -> lighthouse. Washington: Buddhist missionary -> Buddhist Temple. Leiria: library -> university.

Science slider set to 50%

I upgrade our two macemen into CR3 rifles.

I trade Joao banannas for cow and 3gpt.

Turn 348: Ouch, Guimaralas took a Portugeese revolt. Will station more troops in there. Washington whips a buddhist temple.

Turn 349: Music is in. Military tradition started, due in 8. Constantinople: spy -> spy. New York: Buddhist temple -> university.Washington: Buddhist temple: -> Buddhist missionary.

Turn 350: Saladin asks us to cancel deal with the Vikings. No can-do buddy. He has some techs that I will want to trade for in the future. The same time, the Incans ask us to adopt hereditary rule... right, you can puff on that all you like. Thessalonica: Buddhist temple -> aqueduct. Nicea: lighthouse -> rifleman. Antiloch: Buddhist temple: Buddhist monastery. Oporto: library -> bank. The odds were in our favor and we get a great prophet. And the prophet is spent on a Taoist shrine.

We can now see what Incans are researching - scientific method. Also, Saladin is going for printing press so signing him up for war is sooner than I had anticipated (I thought for sure he was after military tradition after doing music as well). Washington whips a buddhist missionary.We roughly have 20% of the vote in AP resolutions. Still not high enough for comfort for me.

Turn 351: Constantinople: spy -> rifleman. Washington: Buddhist missionary -> Buddhist Missionary. Guim comes back out of revolt. I forgot to change the 3 prorphets last turn but fix it this time. Two scientists, an engineer and a spy hired (would have been more in favor of a merchant, but we lack a market/grocer). Oporto expanded giving us control of gold now as well. I sell Lincoln theology for 200g and a WM.

Turn 352: Dai Miao gets created only gaining us 6gpt, but that should raise as we get more missionaries out. I toss Joao banking hoping to get a +1 modifier from it and apparently I was a turn or two to late. Ah well. Ragnar now has grenadiers as well. I hope to be able to make the stretch to that tech once I sign up the war with Saladin and the Incans.

Turn 353: Nicea: rifleman -> rifleman. Washinton whips another missionary.

Turn 354: Antiloch: Buddhist monastery -> galley. Washington: Buddhist missionary -> Buddhist missionary. New Boston: lighthouse -> grocer. Lisbon: Buddhist temple ->

Sometimes the game has it out for you as Ragnar becomes a vassal of Incans. Ok - brief break from me to think on how I want to handle this. Will finish playing later tonight.

 

[LKendter]

Sometimes the game has it out for you as Ragnar becomes a vassal of Incans. Ok - brief break from me to think on how I want to handle this. Will finish playing later tonight.

That is brutal. I suspect the price to get Saladin to declare on the Incans just went up.

 

[Belial]

Just before I leave, I want to leave a few teasers.

Saladin is going to declare on someone already. We don't need to bribe him so that's not a bad deal.

Also, the whole Ragnar becoming Saladin's (Big edit Incans) vassal is not a bad thing altogether. Having Saladin fight a two-front war is not bad. We will have Ragnar to deal with when we declare on the Incans, but I imagine Saladin will do a fine job of mopping him up. Also Montezuma, whilest still a vassal, is not doing half-bad. I expect him to actually hold his own vs. the Incans should they turn that way. Or if the Incans are as militarily weak as I assume they are. Montezuma could gain a city or two and likely renounce his freedom from Saladin. That's a longshot, but it's still plausable.

In the end, the religous front is going to spit things in a positive manner for us and the main thing we want is the Incans to lose their culture cities and Saladin to slow down a bit and if all goes according to plan, that should be exactly what happens.

 

[Belial]

Okay, so this will turn out to be rather interesting last few turns as I'm curious of actually who is going to declare on who. What I think is going to happen is that Saladin is going to declare on the vikings. The vikings are going to fight with great might and will do well for the first wave, but the initial wave will be what does them in if the Incans do not get there in time. I expect the Incans to send some small force at the underestimated Aztecs who will chew right through them. The second wave of Incans, though, will probably do abit of damage to the Aztecs.

However, my main goal is to have enough voting power to deny any AP resolution that is set into motion to create peace. Peace? There can be no peace!

Turn 354: First failed buddhism spread - can be expected trying to get Buddhism in Leiria though.

Turn 355: Resolution drops by and we give good ol' Ragnar a vote. Buddhist missionary whipped in Washington.

Turn 356: With luck, I sent out the last buddhist missionary this turn and Washington can now be properly set back to military whips. We need rifles moreso than anything else - especially with the up-coming war so I would continue to whip these out of here. We can consider the draft, but we can still whip a handful of buildings in the newly acquired lands and get Oxford and Wall Street available.

Turn 357: Abe wants OB. I don't see a reason for this so I decline. At long last, military tradition is in. Now it's time to ask these cataphracts to trade in their swords and to pickup guns and cowboy hats.

Turn 358: Antiloch: galley -> market (this can be changed depending on how early or late we plan to war Lincoln)

Turn 359: Slaverly revolt in Constantinople. Whip Washington. It's now down to pop 5.

Turn 360: Thessalonica finishes it's aqueduct and starts on a spy.

This puts us at an even number and a good place to drop it off.

Saladin is going to keep pressing military until either he beats himself senseless economically or actually can do good damaage to both the Incans and the Ragnar (from an AI standpoint). I am not sure how long we want to wait until we declare on them. At this point, I would probably adopt nationhood and draft a few rifles in our border city with Ragnar. However, rifles are not good vs. grenadiers, which the AI so happens to have so we will want to keep some cavalary out there as well. I left a fair bit of money lying around to suit the needs. I expect our war to be moreso with cavalary than with rifles since the AI has grenadiers, but the longer we wait the closer to rifles the Incans are going to get. I would say at the very latest, we would declare on Lee's set, but I would not be suprised to declare on the following set.

I would not adopt theocracy as we need to get taoism around to help the gold situation. We can and probably should trade for constitution and economics to also bolster the economy. Having wall street opened up in our Taoist holy city will also be a nice addition. Trading Saladin military techs will also pave the way into his war. His 670g should also be acquired to upgrade more cataphracts to cavalry.

I gave Joao gunpowder to upgrade his units to musketmen to help vs. Ragnar.

We have enough voting power to deny an AP victory, but we don't have enough to stop a resolution for war if both the Incans and Ragnar ask for it to stop.

Lisbon is also getting a face lift in the production aspect. It should emphasize growth first, though.

 

[LKendter]

New Updates
We need to build the FP. I am going to propose Guimaraes. As soon as we get the hills on-line, this city will grow produce at a decent pace. Having the FP will go a long way toward helping with our expansion expenses.

As soon as Nicomedia finishes university, can it build a Taoist monastery and then missionaries? I realize we are in OR, but I want some monasteries built before SM is acquired. I don't want to be trapped in OR in order to build missionaries.

I would like our NE city to hire more specialists immediately stopping growth. We really aren't taking advantage of having the NE built.


Roster
LKendter (on deck)
Speedster
Kodii (Please update when your computer is back)
Belial
Playshogi (currently playing)


Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open.

Planned wars - In the near future we turn on Huayna.

 

[playshogi]

Turn 360 - I don't understand why we traded for Joao's cow, but I left the trade alone, and traded Joao dye for crab. Now we can work the plains hill mine in Nicea without starving. I'm assuming we want Oxford in Thessalonica, but we still need to build 3 more universities which are already under construction. I put a couple Taoist missionaries in the queue. I start a Buddhist Temple in Nicea (and a few other cities) for the extra hammers. In Nicea, it will enable us to build a cavalry every 3 turns. I switch Washington to caravel so I can spy on Lincoln.

IBT(361) - The forge burns down in Constantinople and I pay 77 to rebuild it.

IBT(362) - Ragnar wants us to convert to Buddhism, NOT. However, at this time I re-negotiate the clam deal and get 6 per turn. A 50% increase. Maybe, that was a mistake, because the war begins this turn, with Saladin declaring on Inca.

Turn 362 - Philadelphia has 3 longbows defending on a hill, while Atlanta has 1 longbow defending on tundra. Should I send a couple rifles to Atlanta to raze it? I'd prefer to capture it, vassalize Lincoln, and liberate the city back to him.

IBT(363) - 2 fish flip back to us in Washington. I guess war with Lincoln is unnecessary.

Turn 363 - I trade Military Tradition and Gunpowder to Saladin for Constitution, map and 430.
I lost the crab city site to Joao. I saw the galley headed that way, but I guess he dropped off the settler on the same square where we had our units so I missed it. I gift him the longbow we had up there saving 2pt. The settler is still stranded up there. Chemistry in, start Military Science. I trade Dye to Montezuma for 6pt. If Saladin asks, I should join the war vs. Inca, or should I just declare now. I expect to raze Ica, but keep Andahuaylas. Inca's western cities are lightly defended. I put a few Taoist monasteries in the queue.

I'll have to finish this later because I just crashed the game. Not to worry, I had saved all my moves and was planning to stop for now, anyway.

 

[playshogi]

IBT(364) - Ragnar asks us to declare against Saladin (NOT).

Turn 364 - I trade Chemistry to Saladin for Corporation + 80

Turn 365 - Portuguese revolt in Lisbon.

Turn 367 - Saladin asks us to declare war on Inca and I agree. Our spies that were parked in Inca's cities are ejected. I direct Joao to attack Braga.

Turn 369 - I was going to raze Ica, but I looked closer and saw the structure on the left that I thought might be a wonder. It wasn't. We can always gift the city to Saladin if it is a burden to our economy.

Turn 370 - After this turn 6 universities and 6 banks are built so Oxford and Wall St. can be built. Ainu still needs bank, market and grocer, so maybe build those first and hope for a GE to rush Wall St. War weariness is 291 with Inca, but that already means 6 in Constantinople.

 

[Belial]

Ainu needs a bank? I could have swore I built one there. That is the location of the shrine too.

I must have been way off in left field if I built anything but income buildings there.

Wall street for Ainu should be a no-brainer as well as it will clearly have the best income once we give it the TLC it rightly deserves.

To stop the Portugeese revolts, we need more fodder in those cities, probably a rifle or two should halt that altogether.

Also, I would not gift the city to Saladin. We still need tiles for domination and at the most I would gift to (if I would even gift it) is to Joao as his land counts as 50%? or thereabouts for the total land required for domination.

I failed to mention that prior to declaring war, we probably should have closed borders. Having spies kicked out is a pain especially when we need them.

War weariness will not be too bad once we acquire the Zeus city. Also, if any of our production cities take some anger, we will definately want to use the culture slider. We want to keep pouring out units.

We should also dedicate Thessalonica on taoist duty after it completes Oxford but it should get a taoist monastery before that in case we do pickup scientific method.

I really do not expect the Incans to last too long. However, suprises are always fun to come by.

*Edit*

We will likely lose the sea tiles in Washington once we revolt out of mercantilism as we'll lose the artist there. Best way to counter that is to whip the Jewish cathedral and I think all culture battles there will halt completely.

Also, Nicomedia can do Taoist duty instead of Thessalonica too. Or perhaps both to just get it done quicker. Either is fine as most of Thessalonica has its main buildings completed and Nicomedia should not be trailing to far behind.

 

[LKendter]

To stop the Portuguese revolts, we need more fodder in those cities, probably a rifle or two should halt that altogether.

Ultimately we need more culture in those cities. I think we have our UB in all of them, but I would check if we are missing other cheap sources of culture.

We will likely lose the sea tiles in Washington once we revolt out of mercantilism as we'll lose the artist there. Best way to counter that is to whip the Jewish cathedral and I think all culture battles there will halt completely.

We are generate so much CPT there (especially with GT) that I don't think we are at risk. Atlanta can't be building that much culture with being such a weak city.

 

[Belial]

Aye, right now it is. but we're also in free speach too. It's actually only doing something like 20 some cpt.

But you are right, Atlanta should not have that much culture to make a difference. it's Washington's culture that makes a difference.

 

[LKendter]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK136_AD-1740.CivBeyondSwordSave


1720 AD
Why in the world does our NE city of Adrianople only have a single specialist? I immediately hire two, and will keep hiring rather then working ocean tiles.


1724 AD
I raze a total junk city. This is the ultimate in desert choked.




1730 AD
Our spy successfully caused a revolt. Several buckets injured the stack, and we captured another city at no cost.


(IT) Ragnar rejects Huayna and is once again a free state.


1736 AD
(IT) We suffer another Portuguese revolt in Lisbon. This is despite my building another culture source, and adding a fourth defender. I already have a 5th unit heading that way.

=======================

New Updates
Our stack is starting to move on Tiwanaku, the home of Statue of Zeus.
I have some jails being built for the extra EP, and WW help.
I spread Taoism a little, but we still need a lot more work here.
Oxford University has been started in Thesa.

WW is hurting us some, but I hope the capture of SoZ will go a long way toward fixing it. We will have incense on-line soon for additional happy help.

We got another prophet my last turn. I started moving him toward the Confucian city, but his finally target is still up for debate. IMHO if we can get two shrines going, we will sufficient income to dominate this make.

Roster
LKendter
Speedster (currently playing)
Kodii (Please update when your computer is back)
Belial (on deck)
Playshogi


Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open.

Planned wars - the destruction of Huayna.

 

[Belial]

Two shrines are good, we can keep both Thes and Nicomedia on missionary duty and continue the war with more troops rather than waiting for the economy to improve.

 

[playshogi]

I don't see the need for another shrine, especially if we capture the Buddhist one. We can settle him in the Wall St. city for 15 and 4 per turn, ultimately, or save him for a Golden Age. Confucianism has like, 2 cities.

 

[playshogi]

I also think we should assign at least 4 merchants in Adrianople, and consider switching (briefly) to caste system so we could assign 6 merchants, so as to be able to found Sushi as soon as it is available. We should also be farming in Adrianople so we can feed more specialists there.

Also, I just noticed that if we really, really wanted another shrine, then founding the Islamic shrine is the way to go as Huayna has spread it to about 8 cities already.