LK147 - world map, China
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
If there are squares not used by any towns, then I think towns should be built to use them. Packing in towns as close as possible isn't a very good strategy in any case - especially on a large map.
When we are small a few towns that are a bit tight aren't a bad thing when we want to work all possible squares, but if we hope for domination we don't want to do it for long.
When we are small a few towns that are a bit tight aren't a bad thing when we want to work all possible squares, but if we hope for domination we don't want to do it for long.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I'm good with cities having 12 tiles (game is usually decided by hospitals). Less on occasions of recourse grabing or a fishing village that couldn't be placed otherwise, so I think we're in relative agreement.
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I want the city to have useful tiles. Packing Siberia tight with a bunch of Tundra waste isn't worth it. Very wide build depending on culture to close the gaps is far better in junkville.
Most our small cities will be pretty corrupt. IMO they will only be useful further out from the core if they have enough food to let us hire multiple scientists.
We already hurt our good cities with the two new cities placed in our core. Shield output dropped in larger cities with established buildings. I don't want to shove more cities around our productive core.
I really don't see the value from the one near Ta-Tu two. The other once near the capitol at least puts a fish to use and should eventually get some scientists hired.
Right now out best hope for more science towns is to hope a few islands haven't been claimed. Harbor and temple is about all those cities need. Put them by fish, and we should get 2 to 3 specialist at just size 6.
Most our small cities will be pretty corrupt. IMO they will only be useful further out from the core if they have enough food to let us hire multiple scientists.
We already hurt our good cities with the two new cities placed in our core. Shield output dropped in larger cities with established buildings. I don't want to shove more cities around our productive core.
I really don't see the value from the one near Ta-Tu two. The other once near the capitol at least puts a fish to use and should eventually get some scientists hired.
Right now out best hope for more science towns is to hope a few islands haven't been claimed. Harbor and temple is about all those cities need. Put them by fish, and we should get 2 to 3 specialist at just size 6.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Siberia is mostly a moot point now anyhow, as the AI has settled virtually all of it by now, but settling loosely there would have been fine with me, especially if it could have worked some coastal tiles or hired a sepcialist or two, since we eventually need that land to win anyhow.
I agree with Lee about Paoting(SP?). It brought in exactly one new workable tile, which was a desert, and it is mostly just stealing flood plains away from other cities. If it brought in a mix of FP and hills and could be a production center, then maybe, but that city looks to me like a net drag in the short term. It's not a horrible mistake, as with that many FP around there, it can grow big enough to hire lots of specialists, and probably give the cities in the area still 12 tiles to work, but I personally wouldn't have done that.
I agree with Lee about Paoting(SP?). It brought in exactly one new workable tile, which was a desert, and it is mostly just stealing flood plains away from other cities. If it brought in a mix of FP and hills and could be a production center, then maybe, but that city looks to me like a net drag in the short term. It's not a horrible mistake, as with that many FP around there, it can grow big enough to hire lots of specialists, and probably give the cities in the area still 12 tiles to work, but I personally wouldn't have done that.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Just a heads up. I'll not be able to play tomorrow night, and may not be able to post a got it till Thursday, but should be able to play Thursday night.
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[460 AD]
I don't understand why we built Paoting. This city will never be more then 1/2 a city, and ups the corruption numbers for our larger cities.
Macao at least gained the fish and some new ocean.
Please, no more 1/2 cities. I am not building a city on the island by Tsingtao. It gains far to little to justify it.
[470 AD]
(IT) France joins the Zulu in the war. Since France is getting pounded by Persia, I will really be surprised to see any troops get to use.
[500 AD]
We build an iron colony. We then sell it to Russia for $68/turn. I crank the science slider to the max.
[510 AD]
(IT) Persia gets $27.
[540 AD]
(IT) Our next target is Feudalism. Welcome to the middle ages.
[560 AD]
Chinan grabs the last site on Japan.
(IT) WOW - Indian demands territory map.
I then trade wm for his tm and $60.
[570 AD]
I give Persia contact with Brazil for contract with Songhai. The Songhai isn't that far ahead of us.
Russia gets WM, contact Brazil for TM.
Egypt is expensive - 2 contacts, WM and $75 just for TM.
[580 AD]
Egypt gets silks for $28/turn.
[600 AD]
(IT) We are now a monarchy.
SUM:
We have 3 settlers heading toward Australia hoping for an unclaimed island.
It is 11 turns to feudalism. Greece and Songhai still lack it. We only need a handful of backwards civs to get back in the pack.
ROSTER:
LKendter (just played)
Todd Marshall (up)
Greebley (on deck)
CKS
I don't understand why we built Paoting. This city will never be more then 1/2 a city, and ups the corruption numbers for our larger cities.
Macao at least gained the fish and some new ocean.
Please, no more 1/2 cities. I am not building a city on the island by Tsingtao. It gains far to little to justify it.
[470 AD]
(IT) France joins the Zulu in the war. Since France is getting pounded by Persia, I will really be surprised to see any troops get to use.
[500 AD]
We build an iron colony. We then sell it to Russia for $68/turn. I crank the science slider to the max.
[510 AD]
(IT) Persia gets $27.
[540 AD]
(IT) Our next target is Feudalism. Welcome to the middle ages.
[560 AD]
Chinan grabs the last site on Japan.
(IT) WOW - Indian demands territory map.
I then trade wm for his tm and $60.
[570 AD]
I give Persia contact with Brazil for contract with Songhai. The Songhai isn't that far ahead of us.
Russia gets WM, contact Brazil for TM.
Egypt is expensive - 2 contacts, WM and $75 just for TM.
[580 AD]
Egypt gets silks for $28/turn.
[600 AD]
(IT) We are now a monarchy.
SUM:
We have 3 settlers heading toward Australia hoping for an unclaimed island.
It is 11 turns to feudalism. Greece and Songhai still lack it. We only need a handful of backwards civs to get back in the pack.
ROSTER:
LKendter (just played)
Todd Marshall (up)
Greebley (on deck)
CKS
To me, planting more cities when our unit support costs are sky high and we want to start researching seems like the thing to do. Yes, corruption goes up a bit with more cities, but it'll go down when we get a real government and/or build the forbidden palace. I thought it was worth it. I still do - we got monarchy in 18 turns instead of 43, and that wasn't all because of selling iron 14 turns in. However, if the team wants to play differently, I do my best to play the way the team feels comfortable.
More discussion ahead of time would help with this. I've never played with any of you before, and clearly our styles are different. I don't like being told _afterward_ that you wanted something different, especially when topics arose before. (Paoting was planted where I thought Greebley wanted it; when I suggested planting lots of tundra towns, people wrote that they didn't think it would be possible, not that they didn't want to do it or that they didn't think the towns would be worth it. That came later.)
So, how about a discussion of short and medium range plans? For research, chivalry, then military tradition? How tightly spaced do we want cities - CxxxC or CxxxxC? Raze and replace or take and retake? How should we balance military, infrastructure, other costs? What rules do you take advantage of and what tricks do we avoid? What should we be doing towards starting our next war, and who should it be against? What about embassies?
More discussion ahead of time would help with this. I've never played with any of you before, and clearly our styles are different. I don't like being told _afterward_ that you wanted something different, especially when topics arose before. (Paoting was planted where I thought Greebley wanted it; when I suggested planting lots of tundra towns, people wrote that they didn't think it would be possible, not that they didn't want to do it or that they didn't think the towns would be worth it. That came later.)
So, how about a discussion of short and medium range plans? For research, chivalry, then military tradition? How tightly spaced do we want cities - CxxxC or CxxxxC? Raze and replace or take and retake? How should we balance military, infrastructure, other costs? What rules do you take advantage of and what tricks do we avoid? What should we be doing towards starting our next war, and who should it be against? What about embassies?
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The following tactics are PROHIBITED:
RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.
Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war.
Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.
Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship in the same square not using any movement, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.
The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.
Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.
Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another landmass.
Worker baiting - You can't spread around and sacrifice workers to an oncoming attack. This is often done to avoid losing real units or cities. This takes advantage of the AI failure to prioritize targets.
Worker blockades - You can't fortify a bunch of workers along the coast to prevent invasions, or shut down the borders with workers. The workers must be actively doing something.
Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.
2) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.
3) You may not declare war on a civ if you are currently shipping cash and / or goods to the civ. The ONLY exception is a pure per-turn deal if it is the last war of the game. I still don't like this, but this is a concession to the SG community standards.
4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.
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Actually, the iron sale is the main cause of faster monarchy. Research was 50% bleeding cash, and after the sale I could up it to 100% gaining cash. That sale effectively doubled our research rate.
My vote is the tech with best trade potential. We have plenty of AI vs. AI fighting, but several civs are multiple techs ahead of us. I chose feudalism for 2 possible trades.
I hate ICS, and won't support that.
I don't have a specific spacing plan. Macao gained a good food tile (fish), and has enough unclaimed tiles to add value.
At this point I really don't know if we have another decent spot inside our territory.
At this point take, with the exception of a city holding a critical resource (replace those). Most of our new cities will simply be science farms. We have to take the flip risk.
At the moment we are in builder's mode. Post feudalism we can start buildings pikes and MI and start to disband our regular / vet spears.
Possible targets = India, Egypt or Persia. They are all ahead of us with techs. I saw Indian muskets, Persian knights, and Egyptian nights. The next war is one of opportunity, so I can't predict when. We need to keep our eyes out for one of those AIs getting dog piled.
At this point I don't care. I am way more worried about catching up in tech and want to save money for that.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I got it.
CKS, don't fret too much. You're doing fine as far as I'm concerned. Your "mistake" isn't going to be the difference between victory and defeat. Not even close. (And we ARE going to win this game
)
Dense builds are fairly standard on this level on normal sized maps for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is defensibility and unit support, and that city you planted there isn't terrible. Because of the excess food. and lack of shields in the area in general, it'll be an ok science farm in the long run. Just because I would not put a city there (and I would not have) doesn't mean it's horribly wrong. On a smaller map, it might even be the best play.
In general, on a reasonably sized map, I'd say make sure that any city that isn't planted just to grab a resource has AT LEAST 12 good tiles to work if it's an earlyish core city, and more the farther out it gets. On this size map we don't want many cities that dense beyond the first ring, and a science farm should probably only be planted to grab tiles towards domination.
FWIW, I haven't played much with Lee either, and have never played with Greebley, so I'm liable to "screw up" a fair bit too. I'm also a big proponent of lots of discussion. During one of Charis' games, he once forgot he was up because we had like THREE PAGES of discussion between a single turn set, which earned us the name "the endless discussion team"
Hopefully the rest of the team feels this way also, but I'm going to say that if you need to ask questions before or during a turnset, please don't hesitate to do so. I'm going to say that for my part, I'd rather you pause and ask questions if you want help making a decision. I know I will do so. Turns are going to come around quick enough with only 4 of us on this team anyhow.
-----
Regardng the timing of the next war, I vote we plan to make good use of our UU. I know it requires an optional tech, but I think it's worth it. The AI is terrible at defending against 3 move units, so lets try to start smakcing people around with Riders.
I will look at the game tonite, but will not play till tomorrow night, and try to post it late tomorrow or Friday morning. Any suggestions are, as always, welcome.
CKS, don't fret too much. You're doing fine as far as I'm concerned. Your "mistake" isn't going to be the difference between victory and defeat. Not even close. (And we ARE going to win this game
)Dense builds are fairly standard on this level on normal sized maps for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is defensibility and unit support, and that city you planted there isn't terrible. Because of the excess food. and lack of shields in the area in general, it'll be an ok science farm in the long run. Just because I would not put a city there (and I would not have) doesn't mean it's horribly wrong. On a smaller map, it might even be the best play.
In general, on a reasonably sized map, I'd say make sure that any city that isn't planted just to grab a resource has AT LEAST 12 good tiles to work if it's an earlyish core city, and more the farther out it gets. On this size map we don't want many cities that dense beyond the first ring, and a science farm should probably only be planted to grab tiles towards domination.
FWIW, I haven't played much with Lee either, and have never played with Greebley, so I'm liable to "screw up" a fair bit too. I'm also a big proponent of lots of discussion. During one of Charis' games, he once forgot he was up because we had like THREE PAGES of discussion between a single turn set, which earned us the name "the endless discussion team"
Hopefully the rest of the team feels this way also, but I'm going to say that if you need to ask questions before or during a turnset, please don't hesitate to do so. I'm going to say that for my part, I'd rather you pause and ask questions if you want help making a decision. I know I will do so. Turns are going to come around quick enough with only 4 of us on this team anyhow.
-----
Regardng the timing of the next war, I vote we plan to make good use of our UU. I know it requires an optional tech, but I think it's worth it. The AI is terrible at defending against 3 move units, so lets try to start smakcing people around with Riders.
I will look at the game tonite, but will not play till tomorrow night, and try to post it late tomorrow or Friday morning. Any suggestions are, as always, welcome.
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Feel free to play 11 turns to finish feudalism. That will be a nice point to figure out the next trading round.
Your turn is pure building. The following round we can start to build pikes to replace our spears.. We can't afford more units, but better units will help.
Your turn is pure building. The following round we can start to build pikes to replace our spears.. We can't afford more units, but better units will help.
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Aslo, keep your eyes open for more civs hitting map trading / contract trading. It will probably be a few more from Asia. It would be nice to know what the world looks like. We have a ship north of Siberia doing this, ship near Greeland - keep exploring that area, ship near South America, and one near Australia. The more we know about the map, the easy domination gets.
Plus, I still want to find where the nearby source of wines is. A third happy resource would really help. We know they are in Eurasia somewhere.
Plus, I still want to find where the nearby source of wines is. A third happy resource would really help. We know they are in Eurasia somewhere.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Preturn analysis:
Lets look at our opponents, and note things of interest.
Greeks lack Feudalism and are screwed: They have only their capital and 2 useless tundra cities remaining. Our Horse demand from them expires in 1 turn.
Russia will offer 18gpt for silks...
Zulu want 200g for peace (not happening)
Persia has wines they will trade for Silks, but they have no gpt
France wants 60g for peace (not happening)
Irros are winning the war vs America and have Ivory, but no gpt to offer
Australia has Incense, but no gpt.
Songhai lack Feudalism and Engieneering
Venezuela has gems, but is smaller than us, so wont trade them straight up for silks
Argentina will give us Dyes and 2gpt for Silks
I've no idea why we haven't hooked up that pillaged silk yet. Our rep is already shot, we can't unshoot it, and it's worth either 18gpt or or a lux and 2gpt right now. Unfortunately, there are no workers in the area at all. In fact, it'll be near the end of my turn before I can get those silks hooked...
I notice that our horse demand from the Greeks will wear off in 1 turn, so I go looking to shop our own, but come up with no takers. Pretty much everyone has them, and the few that don't are broke, or at war with us.
I briefly consider taking the deal with Argentina, but: With 2 Lux, a temple, a cathedral, a colesseum, and 3mp units, we're happy to size 12, so it seems like there is not a huge rush to do this. I decide to hold out for a better deal.
Looking through the cities... I move a unit into Ta-Tu-Two so I can fire the scientist and keep it growing.
I swap Tatung from a Harbor to a Courthouse. It needs both, badly, but at 1 coin/1 shield, I think the court takes priority. Everything else looks fine... I hit next turn.
IT - We get 2 notices at once, both pictured...
Not good that someone can already build Smiths... OTOH, the WLKD knocks a turn off our research time
We also get notice that Lahore has completed Bach's.
620 - We sink a French Galley with a curragh.
Greeks now so small, they won't even offer 4gpt for horses.
IT - Babs and French make peace... We might see some French units now...
Shanghai: Settler -> Colosseum
630 - The French only need 40 gold for peace now. Seems crazy not to take it rather than risk them buying in someone who might be an actual threat. Meanwhile, the Greeks now have lots of gpt... Like, more than 20. But they are so small, they won't offer squat for our horses, so I get creative and offer them this "deal"
I don't see the downside. We aren't going to declare war on them to take their one decent city in the next 20 turns, and we need the money...
IT - Testerleg: Library -> Colosseum
Ereen: Temple -> Library
640 -
IT - Babs and Greeks make peace.
Iron Now: Library -> Duct
Hovd: temple -> Walls
Moscow completes Smiths. India starts Magellans
650 -
IT - We get this gem of a notification
660 -
IT - Hovd: Walls -> Library
670 - Songhai now have Feudalism...
IT - Beijing: Colosseum -> Wealth (Nothing useful to build for 2 turns)
680 - We FINALLY get a reasonable return for our spare horses
IT - Hangchow: Market -> Library
690 - The Greeks now have Feudalism. Swell. This was a complete bust. No broker for us.
IT - We keep getting our ships evicted by Australia. I don't think there is anywhere useful left to settle anyhow, but I'll let somone who knows the map better make that decision.
We learn Feudalism, too late to do any good, but we learn it. I select Engineering, but feel free to change the path.
Nanking: Courthouse -> Library
I have left the boats near Australia. I have no idea what to do with them. I tkink I know where we were trying to go from looking at the mini map, but Australia is determined not to let us go there, and it's probably settled anyhow.
Summation: This turnset was a complete bust really. Engineering is a 10 turn research path, and only Songhai don't have it, but the only other tech is Monotheism, and EVERYONE has that, except Brazil, of course. At this point, I'd suggest we trade Brazil everything we have, and hope they research Monotheism for us. I really don't know what else we can do.
Cleo appears to be the lead AI, and is likely only short Magnetism from entering the industrial era. I'm a bit surprised the tech pace is going this fast with all the waring going on, but it is. We're going to need a rabbit soon, or this game may actually go south on us afterall.
I'll upload the pictures and the save shortly
Lets look at our opponents, and note things of interest.
Greeks lack Feudalism and are screwed: They have only their capital and 2 useless tundra cities remaining. Our Horse demand from them expires in 1 turn.
Russia will offer 18gpt for silks...
Zulu want 200g for peace (not happening)
Persia has wines they will trade for Silks, but they have no gpt
France wants 60g for peace (not happening)
Irros are winning the war vs America and have Ivory, but no gpt to offer
Australia has Incense, but no gpt.
Songhai lack Feudalism and Engieneering
Venezuela has gems, but is smaller than us, so wont trade them straight up for silks
Argentina will give us Dyes and 2gpt for Silks
I've no idea why we haven't hooked up that pillaged silk yet. Our rep is already shot, we can't unshoot it, and it's worth either 18gpt or or a lux and 2gpt right now. Unfortunately, there are no workers in the area at all. In fact, it'll be near the end of my turn before I can get those silks hooked...
I notice that our horse demand from the Greeks will wear off in 1 turn, so I go looking to shop our own, but come up with no takers. Pretty much everyone has them, and the few that don't are broke, or at war with us.
I briefly consider taking the deal with Argentina, but: With 2 Lux, a temple, a cathedral, a colesseum, and 3mp units, we're happy to size 12, so it seems like there is not a huge rush to do this. I decide to hold out for a better deal.
Looking through the cities... I move a unit into Ta-Tu-Two so I can fire the scientist and keep it growing.
I swap Tatung from a Harbor to a Courthouse. It needs both, badly, but at 1 coin/1 shield, I think the court takes priority. Everything else looks fine... I hit next turn.
IT - We get 2 notices at once, both pictured...
Not good that someone can already build Smiths... OTOH, the WLKD knocks a turn off our research time
We also get notice that Lahore has completed Bach's.
620 - We sink a French Galley with a curragh.
Greeks now so small, they won't even offer 4gpt for horses.
IT - Babs and French make peace... We might see some French units now...
Shanghai: Settler -> Colosseum
630 - The French only need 40 gold for peace now. Seems crazy not to take it rather than risk them buying in someone who might be an actual threat. Meanwhile, the Greeks now have lots of gpt... Like, more than 20. But they are so small, they won't offer squat for our horses, so I get creative and offer them this "deal"
I don't see the downside. We aren't going to declare war on them to take their one decent city in the next 20 turns, and we need the money...
IT - Testerleg: Library -> Colosseum
Ereen: Temple -> Library
640 -
IT - Babs and Greeks make peace.
Iron Now: Library -> Duct
Hovd: temple -> Walls
Moscow completes Smiths. India starts Magellans
650 -
IT - We get this gem of a notification
660 -
IT - Hovd: Walls -> Library
670 - Songhai now have Feudalism...
IT - Beijing: Colosseum -> Wealth (Nothing useful to build for 2 turns)
680 - We FINALLY get a reasonable return for our spare horses
IT - Hangchow: Market -> Library
690 - The Greeks now have Feudalism. Swell. This was a complete bust. No broker for us.
IT - We keep getting our ships evicted by Australia. I don't think there is anywhere useful left to settle anyhow, but I'll let somone who knows the map better make that decision.
We learn Feudalism, too late to do any good, but we learn it. I select Engineering, but feel free to change the path.
Nanking: Courthouse -> Library
I have left the boats near Australia. I have no idea what to do with them. I tkink I know where we were trying to go from looking at the mini map, but Australia is determined not to let us go there, and it's probably settled anyhow.
Summation: This turnset was a complete bust really. Engineering is a 10 turn research path, and only Songhai don't have it, but the only other tech is Monotheism, and EVERYONE has that, except Brazil, of course. At this point, I'd suggest we trade Brazil everything we have, and hope they research Monotheism for us. I really don't know what else we can do.
Cleo appears to be the lead AI, and is likely only short Magnetism from entering the industrial era. I'm a bit surprised the tech pace is going this fast with all the waring going on, but it is. We're going to need a rabbit soon, or this game may actually go south on us afterall.
I'll upload the pictures and the save shortly
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Go for engineering. We have to keep on a path with potential trades.
I agree with help Brazil idea. He is one of our only potential partners for trading.
I am also surprised at the tech pace. I don't recall the last WM game moving this fast. I wonder if starting with no barbs by mistake is affecting things
However, we had a smaller empire in the last WM game as Russia and still pulled it off.
We did get hurt this time with the Americas being a bust. Usually we find a trading partner there.
ROSTER:
LKendter (just played)
Todd Marshall (up)
Greebley (on deck)
CKS
I got it. I will play sometime this weekend.
Note that if we capture Berlin we will be at tech parity with the leaders.
Note that if we capture Berlin we will be at tech parity with the leaders.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I'm not saying it IS hopeless, but it MIGHT be. I know lethal air bombardment, for example, was a big game changer.
I played more games of Civ III than any other game ever. Probably more than 5000, but TBH, I played so little with the Conquests expansion (Sid being beaten on the first try kind of disheartened me, and I hated most of the "additions" like marsh) that occasionally, I get surprised by things, so I'm holding out hope... It's really possible that the busted rep and lack of goods to trade are going to be too much to overcome, but I'm still game to try.
If nothing else, we've shaken off the collective rust and know what we did wrong in our re-education to the game, so I hope we'll try again if we can't manage this one.
EDIT: Crossposted. I'd forgotten TGL was that close. I'd say we'd best plan on capturing Berlin then
I played more games of Civ III than any other game ever. Probably more than 5000, but TBH, I played so little with the Conquests expansion (Sid being beaten on the first try kind of disheartened me, and I hated most of the "additions" like marsh) that occasionally, I get surprised by things, so I'm holding out hope... It's really possible that the busted rep and lack of goods to trade are going to be too much to overcome, but I'm still game to try.
If nothing else, we've shaken off the collective rust and know what we did wrong in our re-education to the game, so I hope we'll try again if we can't manage this one.
EDIT: Crossposted. I'd forgotten TGL was that close. I'd say we'd best plan on capturing Berlin then
Lurker's comment: I agree with CKS that you guys have a fairly wide spacing. You guys also have some squares withing your cultural borders which can't get used by any city ever... such as a square at the 7-7-4 spot starting from Beijing. You have a lot of defensive units... 33 spears and 29 swords!
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I agree we have a lot more defensive units tha I'd usually build. Combination of not having the tech or iron for swords when a lot of those spears were built and needing units for mp because of the lack of luxuries, but yes, we're going to have to build mostly offensive units going forward or we're not going to win. If our cities come under heavy attack, this game, we've already lost.
I really don't think there is anything that wrong with our bild pattern. A lot of the cities are placed the only place they could have gone when they were put down or weren't placed by us. Ideally, it would be a little tighter, but we settled the Mongol's leftovers reasonably well in my opinion. The 2 cities that were crowded in weren't that big of a deal either way to me. I'm fine with cities having 12 tiles, in the first ring or so, but it's really too late to be worrying about it now. and you do have to be careful with that on these beyond huge maps.
I really don't think there is anything that wrong with our bild pattern. A lot of the cities are placed the only place they could have gone when they were put down or weren't placed by us. Ideally, it would be a little tighter, but we settled the Mongol's leftovers reasonably well in my opinion. The 2 cities that were crowded in weren't that big of a deal either way to me. I'm fine with cities having 12 tiles, in the first ring or so, but it's really too late to be worrying about it now. and you do have to be careful with that on these beyond huge maps.
I have started play and there is a way to get to Berlin without fighting our way there. Just wanted discuss before we enact it.
That is to get ROP with Russia and every other civ to get to them.
I got Germany's map and it looks easier than it could have been. With Russia ROP we can take all our units and be 3 squares away (see picture)
So does it sound like a plan? We will get ROP with Egypt, (India or Persia), and Russia.
That means embassies for each plus some cash for the ROP. May take most of our cash.
It will take 5 turns to assemble the troops. I will play up to that point. I will play the rest tomorrow and start the plan if we want to do it.
I will take most but not all swords with me. We will want to build MDI for defense when the units are gone.
The alternative is to wait as we will start falling behind again. However, I would rather catch up now and then play the game we are dealt from there. Going to the modern era on the GLib always seems a bit much.
That is to get ROP with Russia and every other civ to get to them.
I got Germany's map and it looks easier than it could have been. With Russia ROP we can take all our units and be 3 squares away (see picture)
So does it sound like a plan? We will get ROP with Egypt, (India or Persia), and Russia.
That means embassies for each plus some cash for the ROP. May take most of our cash.
It will take 5 turns to assemble the troops. I will play up to that point. I will play the rest tomorrow and start the plan if we want to do it.
I will take most but not all swords with me. We will want to build MDI for defense when the units are gone.
The alternative is to wait as we will start falling behind again. However, I would rather catch up now and then play the game we are dealt from there. Going to the modern era on the GLib always seems a bit much.
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