LK147 - world map, China
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
Its rare that knowing we don't have coal is good news 
We may have a goal for our next war....
We may have a goal for our next war....
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
The #1 tech and richest civ in the game - India...
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
Well, at least we'll have some money to buy friends with... Besides, they are bound to have rubber in all that jungle too... I hope... And we'll have Rifles too, right, and Cavs? (at least I expect we should). I think we'll be ok.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
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900 AD
I gain Aztec and German TM.
(IT) The Iroquois are the largest nation in the world.
910 AD
I declare war on Germany. A rider kills a German knight, and our golden age begins.
930 AD
This sucks - Germany gets rifles the turn I am ready to hit Berlin.
(IT) India signs a trade embargo against us. A lot better than an alliance...
A couple of Germany knights appear out of nowhere and steal 2 workers.
940 AD
Berlin served its purpose. Trying to hold it is crazy, so I abandon it.
I give Greece theology for token cash and WM.
Russia gets silks for $24 / turn.
(IT) We start the military academy in Beijing.
950 AD
We are in the trade time suck zone. I am picking up lots of stray cash with WM trading.
Every dollar is worth it. I already used up a lot of our spare cash upgrading riders to cavalry.
(IT) The war vs. Germany is now getting ugly. A lot of units are heading toward our silks city.
960 AD
I finally find a civ with cash to spare. Metallurgy goes to France for $51/T.
We will lose a city to the Iroquois. Anyang with a regular spear won't survive a knight and ancient cavalry. I give them democracy for WM, $8, and $14/turn. OUCH - we must have been getting the stupid war happiness. I am forced to up luxury tax to 10% after this deal.
Map trading is really paying off. Only three civs have any cash left, and we got several token cash per turn for it.
970 AD
Germany still refuses to talk and end this useless war. The bombardment of Munich begins.
Munich is now under our control. Let us see now if Germany will talk.
We can't get cash fast enough. I manage to upgrade some of the riders in Munich, but run out of cash again.
Babylon has cash, so he gets magnetism for $44/T, $40 and WM.
Monty gets medicine for $87/T.
I gain Aztec and German TM.
(IT) The Iroquois are the largest nation in the world.
910 AD
I declare war on Germany. A rider kills a German knight, and our golden age begins.
930 AD
This sucks - Germany gets rifles the turn I am ready to hit Berlin.
(IT) India signs a trade embargo against us. A lot better than an alliance...
A couple of Germany knights appear out of nowhere and steal 2 workers.
940 AD
Berlin served its purpose. Trying to hold it is crazy, so I abandon it.
I give Greece theology for token cash and WM.
Russia gets silks for $24 / turn.
(IT) We start the military academy in Beijing.
950 AD
We are in the trade time suck zone. I am picking up lots of stray cash with WM trading.
Every dollar is worth it. I already used up a lot of our spare cash upgrading riders to cavalry.
(IT) The war vs. Germany is now getting ugly. A lot of units are heading toward our silks city.
960 AD
I finally find a civ with cash to spare. Metallurgy goes to France for $51/T.
We will lose a city to the Iroquois. Anyang with a regular spear won't survive a knight and ancient cavalry. I give them democracy for WM, $8, and $14/turn. OUCH - we must have been getting the stupid war happiness. I am forced to up luxury tax to 10% after this deal.
Map trading is really paying off. Only three civs have any cash left, and we got several token cash per turn for it.
970 AD
Germany still refuses to talk and end this useless war. The bombardment of Munich begins.
Munich is now under our control. Let us see now if Germany will talk.
We can't get cash fast enough. I manage to upgrade some of the riders in Munich, but run out of cash again.
Babylon has cash, so he gets magnetism for $44/T, $40 and WM.
Monty gets medicine for $87/T.
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980 AD
We finally start to load our empty army. The first 3 cavalry are loaded.
(IT) LOL+++
Greece joins Germany in the war. The only reason it hurts us is we were getting a few token GPT from them.
Too bad there isn't a Greek city near us.
I show mercy to Brazil and give in to his demand for Monarchy!
990 AD
I switch Beijing to bank, and will rush military academy next turn.
We give Germany back Munich back with no buildings and pillaged terrain for peace. Our real target needs to be India and that coal.
(IT) Germany kicks our troops, and I am happy out it. We get a little closer to home.
Greece has left the game.
Germany and Egypt sign an MPP.
Summary:
Next set will be quite. We can't even start to talk about when to attack India until those troops are back from Germany.
One of my war goals vs. India is for Japan to become 100% Chinese. The iron city needs to be raised and replaced. The other is worth a capture. That galley needs to unload its workers, and start to shuffle troops to Japan.
This is our primary target to raise and replace. We need that coal.
With India being number #1 in tech and filthy rich world war will break out when we declare. We need to have plans to at least keep the powerhouses of Egypt and Persia away from us. We probably need more civs on our side.
ROSTER:
LKendter (just played)
Todd Marshall (up)
Greebley (skip until 11/26)
CKS (on deck)
We finally start to load our empty army. The first 3 cavalry are loaded.
(IT) LOL+++
Greece joins Germany in the war. The only reason it hurts us is we were getting a few token GPT from them.
Too bad there isn't a Greek city near us.
I show mercy to Brazil and give in to his demand for Monarchy!
990 AD
I switch Beijing to bank, and will rush military academy next turn.
We give Germany back Munich back with no buildings and pillaged terrain for peace. Our real target needs to be India and that coal.
(IT) Germany kicks our troops, and I am happy out it. We get a little closer to home.
Greece has left the game.
Germany and Egypt sign an MPP.
Summary:
Next set will be quite. We can't even start to talk about when to attack India until those troops are back from Germany.
One of my war goals vs. India is for Japan to become 100% Chinese. The iron city needs to be raised and replaced. The other is worth a capture. That galley needs to unload its workers, and start to shuffle troops to Japan.
This is our primary target to raise and replace. We need that coal.
With India being number #1 in tech and filthy rich world war will break out when we declare. We need to have plans to at least keep the powerhouses of Egypt and Persia away from us. We probably need more civs on our side.
ROSTER:
LKendter (just played)
Todd Marshall (up)
Greebley (skip until 11/26)
CKS (on deck)
darski
Regent in Training
Whoa... that is quite a turn set. 
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I see that I am up and will try to play tomorrow. Looks pretty good, but I can't look at the save right now, so can't comment further.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I've played 7 turns, but am stopping for the night and will finish tomorrow. We'll almost have the catapults home in time for CKS' turn, but not quite as the Persians are bing a pain at blocking nearly every tile, even in Russian lands 
It appears that India and Egypt are the only technological threats. If we can weaken them, we should have the game in hand imo. More tomorrow.
BTW: I can get 20 turns of coal from Egypt for 450g and we can get started on the railnet. I think I should do that, but since I wont finish for like 18hrs, you tell me.
It appears that India and Egypt are the only technological threats. If we can weaken them, we should have the game in hand imo. More tomorrow.BTW: I can get 20 turns of coal from Egypt for 450g and we can get started on the railnet. I think I should do that, but since I wont finish for like 18hrs, you tell me.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
Get the coal - the big human advantage in Civ3 starts with coal. Get our cities connected with a thin-net.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
I've finished, but will not be able to post till tomorrow night.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
pRETURN ANALYSIS - Lessee. So far my turns have been: Just make settlers and increase our city count, make a city to grab the silks, fight a defensive war (OK, I did get to raze and replace one city), and finally a post war builder turn. Next up... a post war builder turn 
(Note, I say this in good humor, this is not intended to be taken as complaining!)
We're doing self research on Eletricity, with the obvious goal of building ToE for Atomic and Electronics/Rep Parts. Looks ok. If our research rate was just a little better, I think I'd swap off to Sanitation with the intention of brokering a Tech the AI nearly always ignore, but it's probably not worth the risk in this case.
I don't like running luxuries when we're doing research when it can be helped, and in this case, I think it can be helped.
Only Brazil is more backward, so I think this is justified for now anyway. It cuts 3 turns off the time for Electricity. I considered getting a 2nd from someone like Australia, which is falling behind, but we're running specialists in only 4 cities, so I don't. I also swap Steam Power to Babylon for WM and 168gpt
I swap Ningpo from a Colosseum to a Cathdral... It REALLY needs a courthouse... Swap Iron Now from a rifle to a Courthouse, Vascilate over changing Hovd from Rifle to Duct, decide the terrain there at present sucks enough to wait on the duct... we REALLY need the FP soon. Tsingtao goes from Cathedral to Courthouse... it really needs both, but I'd rather run specialists or peel off a couple of workers,
I'm going to say we need to build/rush it in India so we can stop bleeding so many shields and coins, but I'll defer if others disagree.
Argentina comes demanding Military Tradition... I probably should tell him to kiss off, but I decide to cave. French want to trade world maps, I decide to see what they'll offer for ours... 3gold. Might as well.
Of course, this happens
Beijing: Military Academy -> Army
Canton: Rifle -> Rifle
Nanking: Cathedral -> Library
Ereen: Barracks -> Library
Kaifeng: Temple -> Library
1010 - Do another round of map trading. We probably only a little more than break even, but we reveal a lot more map. Move troops home/towards India.
IT -
Iron Now: Courthouse -> Grainery (we'll want a hospital here, so we might as well build this)
Xinjan: Aquaduct -> Cathedral
Maccao: Rifle -> Rifle
1020 -
IT -
Testerleg: Courthouse -> Cathedral
New Darhan: Rifle -> Library
Poting: Cannon -> Cannon
1030 - The Persians have, quite annoyingly, set up a fairly effective blockade through their lands, forcing us to do some off road manouvers to get home :sigh: I trade Magnetisim to the Iros for Ivory, WM, 25gpt, and 32g. We didn't NEED the ivory, but it was either take it or don't, so I did.
IT -
Ta-tu-Two: Rifle > Library
Canton: Rifle -> University
1040 - Theology to the Songhai for WM 19gpt and 37g
IT - Argentina and India ally vs Australia
Iron Now: Granery -> University
1050 - Steam to the Aztecs for 151gpt and change.
IT- Brazil and Egypt ally vs Austria
Shanghai: University -> Cavalry
Hovd: Rifle => Rifle
Mandalgovi: Cathedral -> Library
1060 -
IT - Persia and Egypt ally vs Australia... anyone left that isn't at war with them? For fun, they also ally vs Zulu... figures, too late to get out of our way... France and Efypt ally vs Zulu
Ereen: Library -> Granery
New Darhan: Library -> Granery
1070 - Based on the responses received, I make this deal.
Honestly, if you had said no to that, I"'d have been shocked, but as I was stopping for the night, I figured I'd ask. In other news...
Magnetism to Australia (of all people) WM, Incense, 170g and 103gpt... Starting to regret not building Marketplaces, but then again, we may not have these luxuries the whole game. I dono. Probably a mistake, we'll see. Magnetism to the French for 23gpt. It's fairly well known, and maybe they won't by ToG and trade to slingshot themselves and someone else. I swap some things off of Cathedrals to everywhere that it doesn't waste shields... We don't need the happiness at the moment, and if we do later, we'll deal with it later. At this point it dawns on me that with this much happiness, I should skim some drafted rifles off the top of our size 12 that are pop maxed... but there are only two cities that are?!. Ordinarily, I'd feel compelled to go about doing some irrigation, but not durring a golden age or when rails need making...
IT -
Ta-Tu-Two: Library -> University
Ningpo: Cathedral -> Courthouse
Testerleg: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Nanking: Library -> Cannon
chengdu: Aquaduct -> Barracks
Hangchow: Cathedral -> Granery
Maccao: Cavalry -> Cavalry
India is building Sufferage... Not good.
1080 - Working on getting rails up. Most of the workers were not near the large cities, so they are building the rails where they were stationed.
IT - Russia wants alliance vs Zulu but will only offer 1gpt. No thanks. Persia and Egypt sign an MP!!!,
Shanghai: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Iron Now: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Tsingtao: Courthouse -> Library
Xinjian: cavalry -> Cannon
Shantung: Cavalry -> Library
Anyang: Temple -> Barracks
1090 - Nationalism to Azteca for 39gpt and 92g
IT -
1100 - It appears that Russia did oddly deviant research and picked up Industrialism, and traded it to Egypt and Germany, who had only Facism at the start of the turn. They all three have both now. but all lack Communism still.
There are plenty of deals that we should almost assuredly make before clicking next turn, not the least of which is more than 100gpt from Australia for ToG.
If we need to use the Army as a prebuild for ToE, then be careful. the one that is completing now is, by my count, the next to last one we can make before getting more cities, so keep that in mind. I expect us to be 2nd to Electricity behind India, who will hopefully detour to Rep. Parts.
I'm not thrilled with the turnset, largely because I should have 1) Built more marketplaces and 2) Pulled workers off almost all in progress tasks to start making rails immediately, but I didn't. I guess I thought we wouldn't have a problem finishing a network in 20 turns, but we will... All I can say is sleep deprivation sucks (I literally fell asleep at the keyboard on the last turn last night) I really honestly should have asked for a skip this week instead of trying to get this turn in, but with a 4 minus 1 man team, I didn't want to hold up the game. Hope I didn't screw too much up.
(Note, I say this in good humor, this is not intended to be taken as complaining!)We're doing self research on Eletricity, with the obvious goal of building ToE for Atomic and Electronics/Rep Parts. Looks ok. If our research rate was just a little better, I think I'd swap off to Sanitation with the intention of brokering a Tech the AI nearly always ignore, but it's probably not worth the risk in this case.
I don't like running luxuries when we're doing research when it can be helped, and in this case, I think it can be helped.
Only Brazil is more backward, so I think this is justified for now anyway. It cuts 3 turns off the time for Electricity. I considered getting a 2nd from someone like Australia, which is falling behind, but we're running specialists in only 4 cities, so I don't. I also swap Steam Power to Babylon for WM and 168gpt
I swap Ningpo from a Colosseum to a Cathdral... It REALLY needs a courthouse... Swap Iron Now from a rifle to a Courthouse, Vascilate over changing Hovd from Rifle to Duct, decide the terrain there at present sucks enough to wait on the duct... we REALLY need the FP soon. Tsingtao goes from Cathedral to Courthouse... it really needs both, but I'd rather run specialists or peel off a couple of workers,
I'm going to say we need to build/rush it in India so we can stop bleeding so many shields and coins, but I'll defer if others disagree.
Argentina comes demanding Military Tradition... I probably should tell him to kiss off, but I decide to cave. French want to trade world maps, I decide to see what they'll offer for ours... 3gold. Might as well.
Of course, this happens
Beijing: Military Academy -> Army
Canton: Rifle -> Rifle
Nanking: Cathedral -> Library
Ereen: Barracks -> Library
Kaifeng: Temple -> Library
1010 - Do another round of map trading. We probably only a little more than break even, but we reveal a lot more map. Move troops home/towards India.
IT -
Iron Now: Courthouse -> Grainery (we'll want a hospital here, so we might as well build this)
Xinjan: Aquaduct -> Cathedral
Maccao: Rifle -> Rifle
1020 -
IT -
Testerleg: Courthouse -> Cathedral
New Darhan: Rifle -> Library
Poting: Cannon -> Cannon
1030 - The Persians have, quite annoyingly, set up a fairly effective blockade through their lands, forcing us to do some off road manouvers to get home :sigh: I trade Magnetisim to the Iros for Ivory, WM, 25gpt, and 32g. We didn't NEED the ivory, but it was either take it or don't, so I did.
IT -
Ta-tu-Two: Rifle > Library
Canton: Rifle -> University
1040 - Theology to the Songhai for WM 19gpt and 37g
IT - Argentina and India ally vs Australia
Iron Now: Granery -> University
1050 - Steam to the Aztecs for 151gpt and change.
IT- Brazil and Egypt ally vs Austria
Shanghai: University -> Cavalry
Hovd: Rifle => Rifle
Mandalgovi: Cathedral -> Library
1060 -
IT - Persia and Egypt ally vs Australia... anyone left that isn't at war with them? For fun, they also ally vs Zulu... figures, too late to get out of our way... France and Efypt ally vs Zulu
Ereen: Library -> Granery
New Darhan: Library -> Granery
1070 - Based on the responses received, I make this deal.
Honestly, if you had said no to that, I"'d have been shocked, but as I was stopping for the night, I figured I'd ask. In other news...
Magnetism to Australia (of all people) WM, Incense, 170g and 103gpt... Starting to regret not building Marketplaces, but then again, we may not have these luxuries the whole game. I dono. Probably a mistake, we'll see. Magnetism to the French for 23gpt. It's fairly well known, and maybe they won't by ToG and trade to slingshot themselves and someone else. I swap some things off of Cathedrals to everywhere that it doesn't waste shields... We don't need the happiness at the moment, and if we do later, we'll deal with it later. At this point it dawns on me that with this much happiness, I should skim some drafted rifles off the top of our size 12 that are pop maxed... but there are only two cities that are?!. Ordinarily, I'd feel compelled to go about doing some irrigation, but not durring a golden age or when rails need making...
IT -
Ta-Tu-Two: Library -> University
Ningpo: Cathedral -> Courthouse
Testerleg: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Nanking: Library -> Cannon
chengdu: Aquaduct -> Barracks
Hangchow: Cathedral -> Granery
Maccao: Cavalry -> Cavalry
India is building Sufferage... Not good.
1080 - Working on getting rails up. Most of the workers were not near the large cities, so they are building the rails where they were stationed.
IT - Russia wants alliance vs Zulu but will only offer 1gpt. No thanks. Persia and Egypt sign an MP!!!,
Shanghai: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Iron Now: Cavalry -> Cavalry
Tsingtao: Courthouse -> Library
Xinjian: cavalry -> Cannon
Shantung: Cavalry -> Library
Anyang: Temple -> Barracks
1090 - Nationalism to Azteca for 39gpt and 92g
IT -
1100 - It appears that Russia did oddly deviant research and picked up Industrialism, and traded it to Egypt and Germany, who had only Facism at the start of the turn. They all three have both now. but all lack Communism still.
There are plenty of deals that we should almost assuredly make before clicking next turn, not the least of which is more than 100gpt from Australia for ToG.
If we need to use the Army as a prebuild for ToE, then be careful. the one that is completing now is, by my count, the next to last one we can make before getting more cities, so keep that in mind. I expect us to be 2nd to Electricity behind India, who will hopefully detour to Rep. Parts.
I'm not thrilled with the turnset, largely because I should have 1) Built more marketplaces and 2) Pulled workers off almost all in progress tasks to start making rails immediately, but I didn't. I guess I thought we wouldn't have a problem finishing a network in 20 turns, but we will... All I can say is sleep deprivation sucks (I literally fell asleep at the keyboard on the last turn last night) I really honestly should have asked for a skip this week instead of trying to get this turn in, but with a 4 minus 1 man team, I didn't want to hold up the game. Hope I didn't screw too much up.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,064
Summary:
We need those troops by Shantung shuttled to Anyang in Japan. We lose that city next Iroquois war if we don't reinforce it.
You weren't kidding about a traffic jam.
Lonely iron should hire two scientists. That city is pretty useless, and we will get more support from the scientist. Every beaker counts in the race to ToE.
One concern is all cavalry, and no rifles. We do need at least a few defense units being built.
With 4 grand in hand, we should look at upgrade some of our vet units. That cash won't last through my turn...
Our number one goal is a thin rail net connecting cities - forget improving cities for now. The rail net puts us in better shape for war with India. We need to take a bite out of the number 1 civ.
ROSTER:
LKendter (on deck)
Todd Marshall (just played)
Greebley (skip until 11/26)
CKS (up)
5th slot still open if somebody interested.
We need those troops by Shantung shuttled to Anyang in Japan. We lose that city next Iroquois war if we don't reinforce it.
You weren't kidding about a traffic jam.
Lonely iron should hire two scientists. That city is pretty useless, and we will get more support from the scientist. Every beaker counts in the race to ToE.
One concern is all cavalry, and no rifles. We do need at least a few defense units being built.
With 4 grand in hand, we should look at upgrade some of our vet units. That cash won't last through my turn...
Our number one goal is a thin rail net connecting cities - forget improving cities for now. The rail net puts us in better shape for war with India. We need to take a bite out of the number 1 civ.
ROSTER:
LKendter (on deck)
Todd Marshall (just played)
Greebley (skip until 11/26)
CKS (up)
5th slot still open if somebody interested.
ToddMarshall
Maniac - Stellar Wingman
The traffic jam you can curremtly see is nothing compared to the one back a couple of cities where I literally had to leave the road network twice.
I built some Rifles at the beginning, but switched off at coal. With a railnet coming, defensive units are less important because we can "teleport" them around and draft some conscripts in a pinch. Plus, we have some pikes we might want to upgrade?
I assumed the stack near Japan was there to ferry to Indian territory when the war started, but you're right, the Rifle at least should be ferried over. My mistake.
I was saving the cash for the returning troops, figuring we'd want to upgrade at least some of the cats to cannons.
Giving it some thought, we should probably try to peel off a few more workers places where there are no shields in the box or are stuck at size 6. Thirteen is kind of light, even with being Industrius and having lots of slaves...
Actually, looking over the map and doing some thinking, I'm completely daft. If we just make a handful of workers, like 3 or 4, and make an effcient use of our workers, we should have absolutely no trouble finishing a railnet long before the coal deal runs out. Probably in like 10 turns or so, which means we can probably be in position to attack India durring Lee's turn. I feel significantly less stupid, though no less tired, so I'm going to bed now
To all the American players/lurkers, happy Thanksgiving in advance
I built some Rifles at the beginning, but switched off at coal. With a railnet coming, defensive units are less important because we can "teleport" them around and draft some conscripts in a pinch. Plus, we have some pikes we might want to upgrade?
I assumed the stack near Japan was there to ferry to Indian territory when the war started, but you're right, the Rifle at least should be ferried over. My mistake.
I was saving the cash for the returning troops, figuring we'd want to upgrade at least some of the cats to cannons.
Giving it some thought, we should probably try to peel off a few more workers places where there are no shields in the box or are stuck at size 6. Thirteen is kind of light, even with being Industrius and having lots of slaves...
Actually, looking over the map and doing some thinking, I'm completely daft. If we just make a handful of workers, like 3 or 4, and make an effcient use of our workers, we should have absolutely no trouble finishing a railnet long before the coal deal runs out. Probably in like 10 turns or so, which means we can probably be in position to attack India durring Lee's turn. I feel significantly less stupid, though no less tired, so I'm going to bed now
To all the American players/lurkers, happy Thanksgiving in advance
I've got the save. I probably won't be able to play today - we've got guests - but I should be able to play tomorrow.
I think I read that automated workers on rail-to will keep going until they finish, regardless of whether the coal runs out. I guess they reserve the coal ahead of time. We can try this if it doesn't look like we'll finish our net in time, though I think we will. (I don't think I've ever tested it myself.)
I think I read that automated workers on rail-to will keep going until they finish, regardless of whether the coal runs out. I guess they reserve the coal ahead of time. We can try this if it doesn't look like we'll finish our net in time, though I think we will. (I don't think I've ever tested it myself.)
- Joined
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Upgrading the pults -> cannons is fine. I don't care what is upgraded, so much that we do so. IIRC that returning stack includes some riders to upgrade. The only things I don't want to upgrade is regular troops. Even upgrading the galleys at sea would be good to get faster.
I never test that piece of worker automation, so I don't know. I *hate* automated workers, as that is one things civ really does bad. I still recall wathcing them obsessing with mining mountians that could never be used.
No rush to play as Greebly is still out of the loop, and with the holidays I don't know if I will be able to do much before Sunday night.
I never test that piece of worker automation, so I don't know. I *hate* automated workers, as that is one things civ really does bad. I still recall wathcing them obsessing with mining mountians that could never be used.
No rush to play as Greebly is still out of the loop, and with the holidays I don't know if I will be able to do much before Sunday night.
plarq
Crazy forever
lurker's comment: Even if worker automation leads to coaless rail building, it breaks LK's house rule twice: Worker automation and game exploit.
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