LK166, Dutch, CCM, UN victory target

[Elephantium]

Pre-turn, 900 BC:

Military is a concern. We have 1 Archer, 4 Warriors, and 5 Spearmen to cover 4 cities and 2 Worker stacks. I'll build at least one more Spear and one more Archer.

Amsterdam reassigns a citizen to a grassland tile. We lose 1 happy face but gain 1 food, Harbor still due in 1.
Brussels needs more roads.
Rotterdam will complete its Temple and grow once during this turnset. It's not going to need much attention.
Seaside Heights is about to complete the Lowlands Flag. At size 1, it won't need much attention, either.

Research is on Literature. I'll leave that as-is and keep an eye out for trade opportunities.

IBT:

Canada warns us about our troops near Montreal. We apologize for the mistake.
Enslaver pops
Amsterdam: Harbor > Northern Spearman
Seaside Heights: Lowlands Flag > Harbor

T1, 860 BC:

Russia, Italy/Rome, Scandinavia, and Spain know Riding and Seafaring.
Greece/Byzantines know Riding but not Seafaring.

Trade 219 gold, Horses, and 20gpt to Russia for Seafaring.
Trade Seafaring to Greece in exchange for Riding.
Trade Writing to Canada in exchange for Silks and 5 gold.

IBT:

Italy/Rome warns us about our explorers. We apologize.
We lose our supply of Furs.

T2, 820 BC:

Japan is broke, and we're not having happy face problems, so I don't re-buy Furs (yet).

IBT:

Apprentice pops.

T3, 780 BC:

I spoke to soon. Brussels grew and is cranky now. I send Mysticism to Japan for Furs.
I send Mathematics to Brazil for 28 gold and 2gpt.

IBT:

The Coffee deal expires.
Spain complains about our ship. We apologize.
Amsterdam: Spearman > Archer
Brussels: Academy > Spearman

T4, 740 BC:

Russia and Spain know the Republic! This one is going to take a bit before we can trade for it.
We can't really afford to renew the Coffee deal I hire a tax man in Brussels to avoid riots.

IBT:

Zzz...

T5, 700 BC:

Enslaver kills Mongolian Archer.

IBT:

Brussels: Spear > Marketplace
Maghreb complete Hammurabi's Code.

T6, 660 BC:

Greeks, Austria-Hungary, Russia, Italy/Rome, Spain, and Scandinavia now know Code of Laws.

Our southern ship meets Korea! They're pretty broke, down Riding/Construction/Seafaring.

IBT:

Italy/Rome extorts 26 gold from us.
Korea complains about our ship. We promise to move on.
Amsterdam: Archer > Archer
Rotterdam: Temple > Slavery

T7, 620 BC:

I look for trade deals, but there's nothing worthwhile.

IBT:

Zzz...

T8, 580 BC:

A bunch of civs learned Riding over the IBT, so maybe I was too stingy.
I sell Mysticism to the Mongols for 34 gold.
I sell Mysticism to Brazil for 31 gold.
I sell Mysticism to Canada for 13 gold and 5 gpt.
I trade Construction to Germany for Code of Laws.

Now I switch Brussels to Administrative Center.

IBT:

Zzz...

T9, 540 BC (T80 in-game):

Well, my fog-gazing is officially busted. There was nothing there.

IBT:

Clan pops.
Amsterdam: Archer > Merchantship
Seaside Heights gets a culture expansion. Incense is within our borders now -- just need to build a road!
Aztecs complete Temple of Kukulcan.

T10, 500 BC:

Zzz...

IBT:

Brussels: Administrative Center > Christian Community
India completes Worldreligion Hinduism

T11, 475 BC:

We sell Mathematics to Canada for 23 gold + 6gpt.
We meet China. They're down Construction, Code of Laws, and Seafaring. They're pretty broke.

IBT:

China complains about our ship. We apologize and promise to move on.
Amsterdam: Merchantship > Archer
Brussels: Christian Community > Spearman

T12, 450 BC:

I notice that Daidu's culture border has expanded to cover one of the Wheat tiles. That's going to be interesting once we settle there.

IBT:

Seaside Heights: Harbor > Christian Community
Maghreb complete the Hanging Gardens

T13, 425 BC:

Enslaver captures an Austria-Hungary Scout
We sell Seafaring to Germany for 63 gold and 11gpt.
We sell Construction to Brazil for 30 gold.

IBT:

Austria-Hungary Scout 'attacks' our Enslaver and loses, of course. That was odd.
Brussels: Spearman > Marketplace

T14, 400 BC:

Enslaver dies to Mongol Warrior
Enslaver kills the Warrior. No slave.

I notice that Japan has captured Santiago! All is not quiet in the south.

IBT:

Our Warrior exploring near Spain fights off an Enslaver.
Amsterdam: Archer > Slavery

T15, 375 BC:

We sell Seafaring to Brazil for 22 gold and 5gpt.
We sell Riding to Canada for 23 gold and 2gpt.

IBT:

Canada and France both warn us about explorers. We make our apologies and promise to move.

Austria-Hungary makes an embassy with us.

T16, 350 BC:

We sell Construction to Japan for 25 gold and 3gpt.

IBT:

Our Warrior near Spain gets killed by another Enslaver.

T17, 325 BC:

The Hague founded next to the wheat.

Scandinavia now knows Monarchy!
Unfortunately, they would be insulted by any offer we could make.

IBT:

Italy complains about our explorer. We apologize.

Seaside Heights: Christian Community > Slavery
Greeks and Russians are building Worldreligion Christianity. They must have learned Philosophy from another civ

Egypt completes Dome of the Rock.

T18, 300 BC:

Philosophy and The Republic are fairly widely known. If we could afford Monarchy, I'd say we could manage a three-fer. Unfortunately, the best we can get to is "I doubt they would accept this proposal."

We sell Seafaring to Korea for 53 gold.

IBT:

Zzz...

T19, 275 BC, Turn 90 in-game:

Russia and Spain know Monarchy now, but we still can't quite make a deal.

I'm going to hand it off here. Brussels is almost done building a Market, but it could switch to Siege Workshop and finish it next turn. Seaside Heights is working on Slavery, but it could switch to SW.

The Worker stack by Seaside Heights is there to hook up the Incense.
The stack near Rotterdam was working on roading to The Hague.

The 'stray' Workers near Rotterdam and Amsterdam should join up when their current assignments are done.

 

[LKendter]

Please don’t trade horses again. I suspect they will be the military unit we hit Mongolia with. It is going to be ages until we get iron. The southern iron spot will NOT be ours. I see two different civ borders by it.

My vote is for siege workshop ASAP. The market in Brussels can be switch to it now losing no shields. Hardwood ASAP will be us build the Ballista Shop after that in Brussels. I feel we need military now.
I want to start building up for the war with Mongolia. Let us take advantage of them being backwards.
Mongolia is the best path toward any iron with the iron and hardwood spot.

Incense isn’t that important to us. It is required to build a few wonders. Some of those wonders are already built. It is outside of the city range, so no supply center building gained.

Please recall the exploring enslaver ASAP. We badly need workers, but any gained that far away will be useless. A single worker IMO is worth far more than map knowledge.

Do we want to try for the Great Library? It won’t last long, but it should give at least 1 or 2 free settlers.



ROSTER:
LKendter (on deck)
Jersey Joe
Elephantium
Greebley (up)

Goal is winning by UN vote.

 

[LKendter]

Keeping this up front. The "W" city has been put.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I vote that we take a long range view and wait until we can put the Siege Workshop in Daidu. Just compare the base shield production after we become a Monarchy.
Once Daidu is ours and we mine the hills it will be our most productive city. With all hills mined Daidu will have 36 base shields before railroads and 45 base after rails.
Brussels (working a mined mountain and mined forest) is a poor substitute with 18 base shields before rails and 20 shields with rails

For now Brussels should complete the Marketplace and begin building regular Spears and Archers which can replace the Veteran units now guarding our cities and maybe follow that up with Horsemen.

Good Job on the trading Elephantium.

 

[LKendter]

If we delay siege workshop that long, then where are we getting the troops to beat Mongolia? That is multiple free units not in the attack.

Isn't there another small wonder coming up giving barracks? Can we use that one in Daidu?

I'd like this debate settled before Greebley plays. My vote stays with Brussels. I want the troops now.

 

[Elephantium]

Please don’t trade horses again

Agreed. I thought it was OK at the beginning of my turnset, but I wouldn't renew the deal now. We'll want to be building Horsemen in Amsterdam and maybe Brussels for a bit.

GLib: Maybe in Rotterdam? Brussels has the shields to throw at it, but I suspect we'll want 20 Horsemen instead (400 shield cost).

Incense: Ugh, I keep forgetting that it's not a luxury resource in CCM

Re: Siege Workshop, I'd rather build it in Seaside Heights than Daidu:

Daidu has 9 hills, 3 BGs, and a cow. That's 34 shields, 43 with rails.
Seaside has 8 hills and 10 water tiles, and one gives a bonus shield. That's 27 base shields, 37 with Dockyards, 45 with rails.
Brussels (for completeness) has 12 shields now, add mined mountain and forest = 18, 20 with rails.

Also, build time. We can build it in Brussels now. We can build it in Seaside in, what, maybe 30 turns? Or we can build it in Daidu in ??? (30-40 turns plus conquest time...easily another 20 turns, so 50-60, maybe 70 turns).

Another factor: Storm of the Steppes. We don't want to take so long to invade that the Mongols can throw us back with Golden Horde units!

Putting all that together, my vote is for Brussels. It will be a weaker city than Daidu when we're producing tanks, but ... we have to take over the Mongols before we can worry about Knights, much less Tanks.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Elephantium you make a good point about the Mongols getting Storm of the Steppes.
For expediency, I agree with building Siege Workshop in Brussels.

Daidu has 9 hills, 3 BGs, and a cow. That's 34 shields, 43 with rails.

If you check the map, Daidu gets 3 shields not 1 from the hill with Gold on it and, from what I can tell, that hill is not mined. Gold (per the biq file) should only give 1 extra shield, I have no idea where the extra shield comes from.

 

[LKendter]

ROSTER:
LKendter (on deck)
Jersey Joe
Elephantium
Greebley (up) <<

Goal is winning by UN vote.

My vote is for siege workshop ASAP. The market in Brussels can be switch to it now losing no shields. JJ and Elephantium now agree.

 

[Elephantium]

If you check the map, Daidu gets 3 shields not 1 from the hill with Gold on it

I did -- I looked at the map in the current save and one from the previous game. Somehow I missed 3 shields from Gold

My count was 3 shields per hill * 9 = 27, +1 Gold = 28, +3 BGs = 31, +1 Cow = 32, +2 city center = 34... but gold is +2, so that's 35, 44 with rails. Still pretty close between Daidu and Seaside.

 

[Greebley]

Ok I got it

 

[Civinator]

If I am aware of such a sale for Civ 3 Complete I will do a post here.

Civ 3 Complete now again is on sale at GOG for € 1,29 (or the equivalent amount in dollar) until 4th April:

https://www.gog.com/game/sid_meiers_civilization_iii_complete

Don´t do the Galaxy installation. You should install it with the offline installation as here you don´t receive automatic updates that can spoil your current succession game, but you also receive electronic installation files that are working like a former CD for later new installations.

Spoiler :

 

[Greebley]

About half way done. Still can't afford Monarchy unfortunately.
We do have the siege workshop.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Switch to Seige Workshop
IBT: Great Wall completed

250 BC: Agree with Lee on the Enslavers. Both are far from our borders and will probably die before getting home. There are units near our border they could be snacking on.

IBT: South America completes the Great Library. Other continent clear took a different route in tech. Hebrew City of Samaria completes Jewish Worldreligion.

225 BC: Still cannot afford Monarchy or Republic. We can build Horsemen now.
Traded Sail for Silks with Canada.

IBT: Moscow build Circus Maximus Thebes completes Islam.

200 BC: We could get Republic now but I don't see a way to get Monarchy afterward.
Captured a Scout with a recently built Enslaver.

IBT: Greeks got Christianity in Athens.

175 BC: Lost furs so had to raise Lux.

150 BC: Built more Horsemen

125 BC: Enslaver retreats from Warrior.

100 BC: Built another set of Horsemen.

Notes:
Stopping here (turn 97) because it is possible to get Monarchy:
1) Lower lux from 30% to 0 or 10%
2) Trade Horses, our gold, and 56 gpt for Monarchy from Scandanavia (or one of the others)
3) Trade Monarchy + gpt for Republic from France
4) Recoup cost and pick up Philosophy trading Monarchy and Republic with everyone else. We should be able to get several Luxuries as well to reduce our Lux rate.

I really don't think this deal will last much longer and should still be able to pursue the war as described below:

This costs us Horses, but we now have 5 horsemen, 3 chariots, plus the 3 building now I think can complete giving us 8. The Horsemen, chariots, and 3 Spear could move on Diadu, or wait for some Archers.

I would wait for the 3 horsemen to complete and then switch govt to Monarchy. We could start the war with 11 fast units after coming out of revolt. We should be able to get Daidu at least and can build a few Archer to cover agains any units moving on our home cities.

 

[LKendter]

Got it.
Debating if monarchy is worth the cost. We really need horses to fight Mongolia.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Storm of the Steppes requires the Mongols learn Dark Ages. So we have some time to build up our invasion forces.
Monarchy, besides removing tile penalties, gives us faster workers. We need to get things done like mining the Brussels' mountain so it can 1 turn build Horsemen, Archers, and Spears.
If we trade away Horses and spend 10-12 turns building Spears, Archers, and maybe Warriors in Rotterdam plus the anarchy time before we declare war I do not think we will be that bad off.

 

[Greebley]

Ya I think since we have some Horsemen we can can deal with having Archers as backup . They have the same attack but lack retreat when attacking, but have defensive fire.

It seems unlikely the 3-fer will last long and if we can afford Monarchy straight up then most civs have Monarchy and there is no trades to get back gpt.
The faster workers is big as well.

 

[Jersey Joe]

If Elephantium (and Greebly?) have gotten the Flintlock patch running we could swap to using that right now.

 

[LKendter]

100 BC (0)
Our military is weak compared to Mongolia.

I really hate giving up horses again, but I go for the big trades.
I find no difference in prices. I’m going to avoid Spain and Italy since I find them close to us. I have no clue on Russia and Scandinavia in distance. I give Russia horses, $56/T and $1070 for monarchy.
I give Brazil monarchy, $9/T for republic.
I give Germany monarchy for philosophy, $10/T and $74.
I give China monarchy for gems, $30/T and $52.
I give Japan monarchy for furs, $4/T and $34.
I revolt to monarchy.


75 BC (1)
I continue to bring the enslavers back home.
(IT) Our civ is now a monarchy.


50 BC (2)



25 BC (3)



1 AD (4)



25 AD (5)
Income has gone negative. I solve it by giving China republic for $79 and $18/T.
It isn’t great, but I give France monarchy for $30 and $10/T.
(IT) An enslaver heading home was killed by an enslaver.


50 AD (6)

(IT) I really don’t want any wars. I give Scandinavia $37.


75 AD (7)
An enslaver kills a Mongolian archer and gets us a badly needed worker.


100 AD (8)
(IT) Greece completes Hagia Sophia.


125 AD (9)
Bruges is founded at the dear spot. It is a bit weak until worker actions. I want that resource online eventually. Long-term this should be a nice city.


150 AD (10)
An enslaver captures a scout.
Burgess gets a rushed Christian community. I want to get culture into that city quickly so that jungle fruits are inside our borders.

[End of session 1]

 

[LKendter]

Summary:
The good news is Mongolia is still way behind in tech. Income is hurting. That is why Amsterdam is building a marketplace. Once that is done, please swap back to troops. We are still weak vs Mongolia.

Amsterdam is now at 20 SPT. Once the forest is mined, Brussels should also be at 20 SPT.
The workers by The Hague want to get roads up toward Daidu along with water to the wheat.
Bruges wants mines on the 2 dear tiles to get 3 SPT from them.


ROSTER:
LKendter
Jersey Joe (up)
Elephantium (on deck)
Greebley

Goal is winning by UN vote.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I got it.