LK56, Something Conquest, Demigod

[Rubberjello]

Errr.... I hate to criticise the decision of a previous player, but I *THINK* I know why they did it (to provide more challenge at the end?)

Anyway, on my turn 2 Carthage came begging to renew the oil we gave them 20 turns ago. I said "no way!" (and wouldn't have done the first trade 20 turns ago!). Anyway, is it the group concensus to empower the Carths for another 20 turns? Or castrate the buggers?

I vote castrate 'em.

Of course, they could just demand it anyway next turn and declare war, which would not be a very good thing since we're not ready for them yet. *Points to Meldor's spy message where they have about 4 times our military*

 

[LKendter]

I never would have given Oil to Carthage. I think we have to risk war with them. The question is how close are we in pop / territory? Can we squeeze a few more towns for a few more squares?

 

[meldor]

I think we are at about ~50% and need 66%. The pop situation is worse but I spent my whole turn irrigating the outlying cities to get there pop up for either taxmen or engineers.

We need to steal MotTran and get to the next age.

Is Diplo victory enabled? If so we need to beat them to the UN.

It shouldn't take long to take out the Babs and Incans. We would then have several footholds on the Carthage island. Us with tanks and them without would make the game over before they know it.

 

[Rubberjello]

Pre-turn: I just hit "enter" because I trust Meldor so much.

1505 (1) Gahhhhh!!!!! I shouldn't trust Meldor so much! (Just kidding - nothing happened!) Safely steal Motorized Transportation from the Carths, start a bunch of Tanks. Sink a Bab Cruiser. Forces approach Carcemesh (Last Bab city on their small island) Invasion force for the main Bab area is starting to accumulate. Rush a few builds. The maruading Infantry Army has more fun pillaging.

1510 (2) Oh Dear - The Incas invade by landing a single Longbow on our mainland. A Tank accidentally ran over them on their way to the staging area. The resistance in Cuzco finally ends. Found Dordrect on a ruined Bab city near their only Oil. I continue on with Meldor's agrification program in the conquered lands. These Civil Engineers are fun to play around with! When these cities all have Temple/Barracks/Walls/Aqueduct, then they are put on Markets with one or two Civil Engineers to help along the process without affecting growth too much.


1515 (3) Carcemesh (Babylonian) bombarded and razed with no losses. Invasion force for Bab mainland launched from 2 directions. Successfully do a safe steal of Radio from Carthage, and enter the next age. Fearing the worst, I check to see what Carthage knows - They are only up Rocketry and Amphib Assault! I check to see if we could research Fission for ourselves, but the "Dumb Dutch" moniker holds true. Our much-neglected educational system could only get Fission in 14 turns at a deficit run at 80%. Well, "Once a thief, always a thief." should be our motto for this game. Min run set for Fission, and start saving up money.

1520 (4) Hmmm....Babs enter the modern age and draws Fission. It starts the UN. Carthage is sure to trade for Fission next turn. I start a competing pre-build in Rotterburg. Somebody sabotages production in Whaleburg. Our landings go off without a hitch.

1525 (5) Renew our 3 for 2 Lux deal with Carthage, and we have to kick in 125 gold. Carths start UN and Manhatton. 8 Bab Cavs attack our invasion forces, and all of them die. Massive movement of Bab forces to the Western invasion force. Failed steal attempt for Fission results in no repercussions. Bombard and raze Akkad with 2 tank losses against 4 Infantry. Bombard and Capture Samarra with no losses against 3 Infantry. I will have to abandon/replace it later because I didn't have a settler with me, and 100% of the 11 population is in resistance right now. Leeds built one regular Tank before I noticed it didn't have a Barracks. Bad me!


1530 (6) I decide to use our spy in Babylonia do a risky steal for Fission, and it works! Rotterdam switched to UN due in 10. Healing turn. Land another force near Babylon's Capital.

1535 (7) Bombard and capture Babylon. (Magellon's and Knight Templar Wonders) I was pretty lucky because I only lost 2 tanks versus 9 Infantry and 5 Cavalry. It might be worth the flip risk to keep Magellon's, so that's the reason I didn't raze it. Bombard and capture Elipi. Babylon is folding fast, so we might as well keep the cities here on out.

1540 (8) No Bab reprisals to speak of. Incas drop off some more buzzard-bait troops near Tikal. Refuse to renew the ROP with Carthage. Clean up the Inca trash (Including using 2 Elite Medievel Infantry in a shameless leader-bait effort). Bombard and capture Nineveh and gain control of J.S. Bach's. (1 tank loss) Destroy a big stack of approaching Bab older units (No Leaders)

1545 (9) Bab Destroyer sneaks out and nails one of our empty transports. Capture Ashur with one tank loss. During the battle for Nippur (On Carthage's continent), Henry Hudson was generated from a Cav victory over an Infantry. We also eventually capture Nippur, even though we ended using up Infantry to do it. (1 Tank, 1 Cav, and 1 Infantry loss). Sink that Bab Destroyer with one of our Cruisers. Sink an Incan Galleon with one of our Destroyers.

1550 (10) Only 3 Bab cities left. Eridu falls to our Infantry and Cav armies with no losses. Eulbar falls with a loss of 2 tanks. There is a bloodbath at the last city - Uruk. 5 Tanks fall before the Babylonians are no more. Woohoo!

Our UN is due in 6. Carthage's UN is due in 10 (I did an Investigate City on them). We are now at 54% area, and 51% world population. There are 6 more Incan cities to conquer, and some transports with tanks are on the way towards them. I doubt we can gain domination without attacking Carthage. If we want to speed up Pop, we should rush Granaries in our conquered lands.

Sorry for leaving the forces in Babylonia in such a mess, but I barely was able to get all their cities in my turn allotment here. (Everybody has moved, but everybody is also wounded and scattered) We now have 43 Tanks, and a brand-spanking new Tank Army. But I have not built a single Air or Flak unit. I have not played Conquests into the modern age yet, so I think we need more air power than we did in PTW, but I'm certainly no expert. We are still weak compared to the Carths Militarily, and they managed to build 22 Tanks before we shut off their Oil supply.

The Save (1550)

 

[hotrod0823]

I'm up right.

I've got it.

I am still having problems with LK58 and have to finish my remaining turns before I start this.

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by hotrod0823
I'm up right.

I've got it.

I am still having problems with LK58 and have to finish my remaining turns before I start this.

What is going on with this? You are at 4 days. This is way outside typical LK response. Please comment under LK58 to not junk this thread to much.

========================


LKendter (on deck)
Ridgelake
meldor
Rubberjello
hotrod0823 (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

 

[meldor]

Good going RJ. Glad to see you finish off the Babs. Carthage is Infantry heavy and with our tanks should pose no real threat.

 

[Rubberjello]

Thanks! But they are building those new TOW Infantry. It's not going to be a picnic in the park either.

 

[meldor]

As long as you continued to build up the arty it will be...We have a foothold on their land mass and they can't see it coming.

 

[LKendter]

With Carthage's culture make sure to raze everything. Even those small islands are important, as most of them have expanded borders. Replace those cities with optimal locations to replace tiles. The key is we have very little time left.

Make sure to get more settlers ASAP. File in the gaps, 2 Carthage cities on our landmass, strays on territory mostly ours, etc.

30 turns is very little time left to win. A few razed Carthage cities and less culture may give us a few extra turns. Screw the pink Civ - Hotrod must attack Carthage ASAP or we lose.

 

[Rubberjello]

In that case: (More notes for Hotrod!)

I would recommend 2 turns for reorganization/healing.
Heavily fortify our foothold city with all of our artillary and infantry and 15-20 tanks for counterattacks (Basicially all our forces in the north except for our Armies). Create a kill zone and target so that we don't have to worry about a whole bunch of Carth amphibious landings on our scattered holdings. Try to get some AA defence in there also. Don't put our Armies in that city or it would scare them off???

(On second thought, it may take more than two turns to set this up!)

Conquer the two Carth cities on our continent, the Carth city on the former Mayan continent, and divert our transports towards the two Carth islands. Right now some of our transports are unescorted. Carth has lots of ships, so protect these guys well once war is declared! After the Carths have "shot their wad", we could make our second or third invasions (The choke point in the SE at the pink cities looks attractive.)
BTW The Carths are in Democracy now (They were in Fascism during my last round). It appears they are gunning for a peaceful victory.

 

[meldor]

Don't forget that we have flight. Burn a slave and get us a second airstrip on the toehold incase the city gets bombed down to nothing. We don't need the transports to get re-enforcements into the main island.

 

[hotrod0823]

Lk56 (0): With a foothold already in place on the carthage continent I will try to get a sizeable force to hit them hard once war is declared. Rush a few Settlers in the Old Myan holdings. Carthage Population is huge and there culture is at 59852 only 20k from winning. Need a couple turns to move the units from Old Babylon to our Foothold. Also have to ship the settlers and workers to the Carthage Continent. Tempted to draft on our mainland to pull infantry from those cities without leaving them bare. Don't want to kill population though so I hold off for now and only move the inner city defense to the coasts.

1555 AD (1): Rush the airport at Nippur. Load up a few settlers (5) and Move them towards Nippur next turn. Start on a round of mostly TOW and Tanks. Moving all units towards Nippur. Will wait for the Army to heal in Bab territory before moving them. Short Rushed on the Mainland via the worker/Cruise missle. Getting a few infantry, ToW and tanks next turn for 280 each.

1560 aD (2): Build a few units . Start on a couple Mobile SaMs. Again short rushing where I can. Nippur builds its Airport . Send a few new units. Rush a Library for some quick culture. Investigate Thaene to see what I need to leave behind and notice that he only has 1 aluminum and it is on our continent. Safely exposed the Carthage Spy but lost ours in the process. So I planted a new one. Demand Ecology so what is a guy suppossed to do. I declare war killing our rep. Capture Sippar, Capture Ake. Moving on Nora with a stack of 8 tanks.

1565 aD (3): carthage counters with a few cruise missles. They try an amphibous Assult at Nippur and fail. They manage to kill the Knight army but not before it took out 3 tanks. Capture Thaenae. A rediculusly hard fought battle for Sabrath, lost 5 tanks to a redlined infantry. Razed the city and replaced with. Take out a few random tanks and infantry. Lose a couple more tanks to redlind infanatry.

INBT: Ake flips taking a wounded tank.

1570 AD (4): Raze Ake. Rush the Bab Temples. Moving a combat settler and his followers within Artilery range of a size 31 city of Leptis Magna. Take out a battleship and an aircraft carrier.

1575 AD (5): Up lux to 20% as cities were about to riot due to WW. A large SoD of ToW are approaching Nippur. Will drop in a few more units as well as begin the bombing of Leptis Magna. Redline the units, kill a few citizens and take it with 4 tanks, and no losses. A size 31 city is no more . Short rush a few tanks to replenish at Nippur. Moved them out and have too many ToW and Infantry.

1580 AD (6): Many tanks, short rush more. UN completed couldn't justify wasting all the shield on something else or the Manhattan Project. Riots again even with 20% lux. Busting the stacks of infantry surrounding NIppur. Kill about 15 infantry and a few of the TOW. Carthage is down to 92 infantry, from 117, 6 tanks and 28 TOW.

1585 AD (7): Zero Counters from Carthage. Found Middelburg outside of size 28 Rusicade. Hitting it hard redlined all the units, took 4 off the pop. Carthage has pillaged the roads around Nippur, can't get the tanks to hit Rusicade this turn will wait and take it next. Cleanup all random units in the area of Nippur. Would short rush more tanks but don't have enough cash with the extra lux needed. Tempted to make peace with Incas but not sure if that will effect the WW because we are at war with Carthage. Manuvering Ships to take some tanks to hit the Islands in the south. 2 landing parties outside of Kaminajuyu and Calakmul. In an attempt to Lower WW I make peace with the Inca. They are backward and broke but I dont want to waste ships and time killing them. Well that was NO changes. Up Lux to 40% All the way up to 70% and it has zero effect.

1590 AD (8): WW is nuts. Capture Kaminaljuyu easily and raze the city. Have some new settlers in the area to replace it next turn. Get my first Leader in the battle for Ruscide. Raze and replace Rusicade a size 28 city. Found Breda at the choke. We have a shiny new tank army. I tried to avoid this but I think we need to revolt back to Monarchy. Calakmul is razed. Very tempted to revolt but don't want to lose the producion. I decide to drop lux to a reasonable level and deal with the riots as they come up. Our core cities (the ones building all the tanks ) are uneffected and haven't been rioting at all. Just the conquested civ cities. Drop lux to 50% almost the break even point. Have to hire many many entertainers but I think it is better than the alternative of revolting. We don't have many turns left as it is we can't afford to waste them by revolting.

1595 AD (9): Our Infantry army protecting our combat settler takes some bomber damage. Mobile SaMs do squat. Found Hilversum within artillery range of the Carthage Capital Will bomb and possibly attack this turn. Successfully bomb and Raze the Capital of Carthage. Dyes are in the area and may help or WW problems. Found New Amsterdam to grab the dyes now. Found New Rotterdam on the Small island in the south. Our victory will come soon. We are sitting at 63% of Area and 65% of Population.

1600 AD (10): Very little in terms of counter from Carthage. They completed manhattan project. Use my last combat settler to build a city just out side of Leptis MInor. Bomb and easily take Leptis Minor. Consider holding it to see about winning the game right here. Found New Utrecht. Found New Grongingen on our Southern tip. Find 2 more settler and try to place cities strategically to get more tiles. Found New Eindoven and New Arnhem. With only a few more tiles needed I will go OT and finish this off.

1605 AD (11): Found another city on the Carthage continent and hit 66/68

End the turn and wait. We win !

here is the save: http://civfanatics.net/uploads6/LK56-1605AD.zip

 

[LKendter]

I didn't think Carthage would collapse that fast. I thought my turns would be the race for enough territory before his culture kicked in.

Of course you did just what I hoped for in getting all the junk Carthage outposts taken over with good replacement points.


Either way - we win. [dance]


Down to 2 LK games waiting for patch (plus past holidays at this point).

 

[hotrod0823]

It's pretty easy when your opponent doesn't have tanks of his own.

As far as new units I liked the TOW, they have the bombard on defence like archers and longbows but not on offense. They are stronger then infantry and have a good defence to IIRC they are 12(6),14,1.

The Mobile SaMs I can't figure out they are 1.6.1 but don't seem to do much. Didn't see them hit any planes, Do they?

The AI was not very strong. He walked right up to Nippur with a huge stack, something like 15 infantry 15 ToW and our artillery/tanks mowed them down easily. The core Carthage cities were huge but they were each only protected by 4/5 infantry or TOW. Hitting units first every time with artillery makes taking the city easier. You don't waste time hitting libraries, temples or Granaries.

One other thing I found interesting was the use of Cruise missles. I don't recall ever seeing one used against me before but he used 7 or 8 over the 10 turns, maybe more.

Our superior navy helped things along as well, Bombing and destroying transports was fun and easy. Did get hit with a sub once or twice though .

WW was way high towards the end. Not sure if that was changed or not. In the end had 50% lux and many entertainers. Getting Dyes was a big help.

Overall a good military style game. Some nice wars in all the ages. Swords vs. spears. Mace vs. Pikes. Cavs vs. rifles and ofcourse tanks vs. infantry. We hit them all.

And the new features of the Armies Rock. Pillage at will and the Blitz are nice!

Besides the Lack of FP and GPT issues it was a fun game.

Still unsure what the deal is with the rails and the cities. I also noticed that razed city sites have no roads is that new too?

Hotrod

 

[hotrod0823]

I didn't think we would be that close either but after his core cities were razed we had the population portion easily. Getting that last few tiles was the key for the last 2 turns. Before I realized it I was out of combat settlers. Rushed the last one in Nippur and that gave us the win with about 7 or 8 new tiles when that city was formed. Rushing the Bab temples helped too.

Hotrod

 

[Ridgelake]

An enjoyable first game on C3C! Thank you, Lee for letting me join you and play.

 

[Rubberjello]

Great job finishing this one off Hotrod!
'Twas a tough game. Lizzie in our face at the beginning. No FP. Rather limited trading opportunities in the midgame and end. Tough domination phase late midgame and end. I think it shows that Seafaring Civs have a fairly good advantage in the early game for contacts/maps/trading and can keep up with the AI much easier than other types of civs during that stage.

I need some practice with the new C3C units and rules in the modern age. I was completely lost in knowing what units are cost-effective to build. I may play Hotrod's turns over (if I have time) to just experiment with some things.

Thanks all for the enjoyable game!

 

[meldor]

Great game all, nice finish Hotrod!