LK73 - AWE, Pangea, Civ = Random*

[LKendter]

I don't think this critique is even a bit appropriate. Your dot-map work is not wasted by me keeping an AI city that is beneficial to us. All but one city I founded were on the proposed locations - and I would like to stress the word proposed here. As you are far more experinced in SGs it may be my misunderstanding, that it should be possible to make an own deceision based on the planning made before and based on the actual game situation that arises once you play.

The overall state of this SG does not look like it was hurt too much, but if you think I am ruining your fun in this particular game, feel free to ask me to drop out and I will comply. I would miss this interesting game though.

I apologize to you for the overreaction. While I realize the Tabriz flip chance was low, I was very unhappy seeing 2 armies at risk in an AI city. I *have* lost major troops to flip before. My mistake was not to make the focus clear. We are in sync overall. My issue is your not razing everything (unless a wonder).

As for an interesting game this one has turned our too easy. It was a lot later in LK71 before the outcome was clear. We haven't had a real threat to our core.

I won't deny you have right to make your own decisions. I don't want you to resign.

 

[LKendter]

Do we really want to merge all our workers in? I felt we were behind on improving our lands and didn't have sufficient foreign workers to do so on my last turn.

I checked our science rate. We would need almost 20 turns to research gunpowder. Once the GL is gone that is to slow of a science rate. Unit cost is one of the factors unit support. That is what I was trying to avoid.

We are getting an absurd amount of workers right now. There are still at least 6 workers just trying to get home. The only issue is some of them need to get to our rear-line cities.

 

[Tarkeel]

Not bothering to report unit builds except for changes
(0) 450 AD
MM some, save Teotihuacan from rioting.

IBT:
Kill 1 Jav
Spain lands settler and spear near incense.
Maya start Sistine

(1) 460 AD
Tenochtitlan: Library->MDI
Tlateloco: Settler->Settler
Malinalco: Aqueduct->Treb
Mongols and Maya get Chivalry
Kill 1 AC and settler
Move the western settler 1 NE to have it in range of Cempoala as well

IBT:
Jaen and Bengal are founded
Theology and chivalry pops from GL

(2) 470 AD
Teotihuacan: Market->Library
Tula: Harbor->Market
Chiconautla founded in the west: Walls
Kill 2 LB and 1 settler

IBT:
Gunpowder pops from GL

(3) 480 AD
Kill 1 AC, 1 spear; Raze Jaen (0g)

IBT:
kill 1 horse

(4) 490 AD
Tlaxcala: Settler->Settler
Upgrade 2 horses to knights
Kill 2 LB, 1 spear, 2 horses

(5) 500 AD
Tepexpan: Walls->Barracks
Kill 3 horse, 1 LB, 1 spear
Pillage Mongol saltpeter

IBT:
Delhi builds Leo

(6) 510 AD
Tepexpan: Barracks->Aqueduct
Tlateloco: Settler->Settler
Tlalmanalco: Barracks->Aqueduct
Maya have education, so start research on Chemistry @ 70%, due in 16 at -31gpt
Kill 1 spear, 1 ac, settler; raze Karakorum(0g, 9 workers)
Found Zitlaltepec and Coyotepec

IBT:
Maya start Sistine and Knights Templar

(7) 520 AD
Coyotepec: Walls->Barracks
Corman Coral: Court->Library
Kill 3 archers, 1 jav, 1 LB, 2 spears

IBT:
Tikal builds Knights Templar

(8) 530 AD
Education will pop next turn
Kill 3 LB, 1 MDI, 4 spears; raze Almarikh (0g, 3 workers)
Found Tequixquiac

IBT:
Lose 1 pike

(9) 540 AD
Education pops from GL
Teotihuacan: Library->Knight
Teayo: Library->Aqueduct
Malinalco: Treb->Harbor
Ixtapaluca: Barracks->Aqueduct
Kill 3 LB, 1 MDI, 4 spear; Raze Erdenet (0g, 0 slaves), Santander (0g, 0 slaves)

(10) 550 AD
Tzintzuntzen: Court->Library
Build Jilotzingo

Status:
The mongols are pretty much gassed. They have 3 cities left.
The Mayans have a few units coming at us in the former Mongol territory, there is a force in Zitlaltepec to take care of them. The 2 frontline armies are covering 5 workers, and could fall back to mop up/meet an escort for them
We can spot Indian and Mayan borders over the seas in the west
Our main problem isn't unit costs, but lack of roads in core cities. We only have 229 total income, before corruption, 150 after.

 

[LKendter]

Spain lands settler and spear near incense.

That area of the board seems to be the main landing site.

==========================

Gunpowder pops from GL

Do we have any saltpeter?

==========================

settler; raze Karakorum(0g, 9 workers)

Now that had to hurt the Mongols
Won't argue with another 9 workers either.

Our main problem isn't unit costs, but lack of roads in core cities. We only have 229 total income, before corruption, 150 after.

Sounds like we need to push the free workers toward the core. I think we have enough of a worker force, but it might not allocated correctly.

==========================

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Tarkeel (on deck)
Greebley
Meldor
Grs

==========================

Our general game plan:
1) Pure 3 apart cities with NO exceptions. If we want a critical city 4 tiles away then we build a tightly packed city between it. I refuse to have another Copan / Budapest like LK71.
2) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
3) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
4) Raze all cities unless they have a wonder.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

 

[Greebley]

We certainly had a nearly ideal set up in this game. Meeting once civ and being able to kill it before meeting the next; and it looks like we have been able to kill the second before any real troubles with the rest.

I believe I am up and will try to play tonight. I will try to lay down more cities (balanced with defenders too); I have found that corrupt cities with scientists is a huge boost to ones science rate and well worth it.

My thought is to fill the land we have before any major advances into new territory. Once we have consolidated our hold on the lands we can continue. The armies though will continue to attack and avance (barring at least one for defense). They can pillage if nothing else.

I haven't looked at the game recently, so if we have already grabbed the available land, then I will look to attacking. It was a lot of land, so I am guessing we still have a lot to fill.

[Edit: It sounds like with all the razing, we may very well have sufficient workers. I will work on roads.]

[Edit2: Lee, I am up right? Your cross-post says otherwise, but I am guessing it was a cut-paste error]

 

[Tarkeel]

No saltpeter hooked up, but 2 in the desert and the mountains in the center. Next setller should go where the barb camp is, just have to take care of Chittagong, and we have an army there for that.

Edit: I've left an exposed worker near Tlalmanalco

 

[LKendter]

I have found that corrupt cities with scientists is a huge boost to ones science rate and well worth it.

I couldn't agree more. LK71 proved the power of specialist. I think some of the far western cities already fit that description.

==================

My thought is to fill the land we have before any major advances into new territory. Once we have consolidated our hold on the lands we can continue. The armies though will continue to attack and avance (barring at least one for defense). They can pillage if nothing else.

A bettle map of the world won't hurt either. We do want to keep the armies out causing havoc. Most of our offensive units are in the armies.

==================

[Edit2: Lee, I am up right? Your cross-post says otherwise, but I am guessing it was a cut-paste error]

Yep, cut and paste, but forget to shift currently playing down.

Signed up:
LKendter
Tarkeel
Greebley (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)
Grs

==========================

Our general game plan:
1) We want to stick with pure 3 apart cities. If we want a critical city 4 tiles away then we build a tightly packed city between it. I refuse to have another Copan / Budapest like LK71.
2) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
3) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
4) Raze all cities unless they have a wonder.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
>> Starting with LK68 the LK series is on patch 1.22.

 

[grs]

I won't deny you have right to make your own decisions. I don't want you to resign.

Thanks! I am happy to stay

 

[LKendter]

I got a chance to look at the game. Cempoala starts the hopelessly corrupt line. We can hire 3 scientists in the city. It is time to start having some specialist cities.

Now that I looked at the game I agree with Tarkeel that the next city should be built on the barb camp spot by Chittagong. After that I would suggest the city further down that row (3 north of Tamuin) to give the saltpeter city additional support.
What is crazy is that I cleared a barb camp from that exact spot during my turns.

Raging barbs and AWE is a royal pain. We do need to fill in those filler dots in the east to cut down the barbs. No reason for an updated dot map at this point as there are still several eastern filler dots to build.

 

[Tarkeel]

Some statistics before I hit the sack:
Area: Us 16%, Spain 17%
Pop: Us 38%, Maya 16%

We're also second in score, 643 vs 652 for the Mayans

 

[Greebley]

Early: My first elite victory gets us a leader which will be another army (knight).
Settle a few towns. Attack and destroy Salamanca.

Mid: Pillage a Spanish iron - It is his only one. No more knights which is good.
Destroyed an Indian city near our lands.
Get Another Leader with Lee's Swordsman. Thats 2 leaders off that unit!

Late:
We can almost get Chem in 1 so I switch over to some scientists for a turn to do so.
I see an Indian Elephant troop by.
Destroy a Mayan town.

Notes:
We are up to 7 armies.

IMHO, I don't think we have enough workers and the worker merge was a net loss. With 9 more workers we could have used them to irrigate and support a lot more than the 3 scientists we would need to break even. We still have a lot of squares to improve. Not sure if it is too late to be worthwhile now to build some however.


We need a new dot map. Some of the towns got placed off the previous dot maps which means to correctly place the cities near them - they also had to be off. Note that all the spots did follow the 3 spacing rule. They just weren't exactly the same as the dot map.

[Edit: Note that we have 5 settlers moving toward the front.]

 

[Greebley]

Here is a zoomed out picture of the front lines:

 

[grs]

Hmm, just from looking at the map I would say, we are not able to fill the space between our front and our core fast enough with the 3-spacing rule. As we are not going to keep enemy cities, we might think about founding some (at least 3) cities near the Spanish territory. To form a healing area.

As an alternative we could put every size 6 city to a settler to fill the space fast, but that would hurt our military production very much and I doubt we can afford it just now.

 

[meldor]

Got it, but it will be tomorrow night.

 

[LKendter]

We need a new dot map. Some of the towns got placed off the previous dot maps which mean to correctly place the cities near them - they also had to be off. Note that all the spots did follow the 3 spacing rule. They just weren't exactly the same as the dot map.

I will do another dot map up. I know some of the cities would be place off the dot-map. This is why I had an issue with one city being changes on the map. It causes a chain reaction of more cities going on the map.

=====================================

...we might think about founding some (at least 3) cities near the Spanish territory. To form a healing area.

Our position is awesome and we don't even have cavalry yet. We have enough armies in the field to damage the AI. Armies can heal anywhere. I really don't want a pocket that is difficult to defend. I don't want to do this.

=====================================

As an alternative we could put every size 6 city to a settler to fill the space fast, but that would hurt our military production very much and I doubt we can afford it just now.

I agree there is no way to push settlers faster. It looks like we are already pushing the limits as I see an undefended city with Coyotepec. It looks like we need to slow down the settling pace and push more military.

 

[Greebley]

I agree there is no way to push settlers faster. It looks like we are already pushing the limits as I see an undefended city with Coyotepec. It looks like we need to slow down the settling pace and push more military.

The cities have already been switched to pikes for this reason. As you state we will need to continue working on them as we are currently behind. I think the towns now building settlers are ones not suited to build military, but you may want to check this.

We also need knights badly too. The armies absorbed a lot of them. Note that one army has only 3 knights and needs another.

Note that I have observed that the AI continues to go for the same frontal city regardless of whether cities in back are empty or not. I believe this is due to the lesser defense of the leading city (one pike). I have observed this in other AW games in conquest; the AI will only go around a city if there is decent defense - somewhere around 2-4 defenders. Otherwise all cities are treated the same empty or not.

 

[LKendter]

Note that I have observed that the AI continues to go for the same frontal city regardless of whether cities in back are empty or not. I believe this is due to the lesser defense of the leading city (one pike). I have observed this in other AW games in conquest; the AI will only go around a city if there is decent defense - somewhere around 2-4 defenders. Otherwise all cities are treated the same empty or not.

It will also depend on luxuries / resources. I have watched the AI get stuck trying to get to a city with iron, etc.

The AI will bypass a strong hold city. If they do, then the empty rear line city tends to be next target.

This game seems to be almost exclusively down the path of the silks toward our core for attacks. The west seems to be quite for the moment.

 

[LKendter]

I agree there is no way to push settlers faster. It looks like we are already pushing the limits as I see an undefended city with Coyotepec. It looks like we need to slow down the settling pace and push more military.

This above was an understatement. Now that I look at the game we have 3 undefended cities, 5 settlers looking for cities spots, 1 settler being built, most of our cities on buildings, and a barb heading toward one city. It is time for a military push for more units.

The only place we need a building is Chiauhtia. This city broke the interlinking cities rules and needs to build a temple. Two cities should have been built at the black and blue dots. The goal with the 3 spacing rules isn't just city support. It is to also gain interlocking borders for cultural control toward domination.


The below is the dot map for current batch of settlers. IMHO this is it for expansion until the military catches up. The goal here is to get a safety zone around our silks supply.

 

[Greebley]

Sorry about the horrid placement of Chiauhtia. I was trying to follow the dot map for that one and simply messed up. Not sure how. Building a temple or lib does seem best.

We can get pikes fairly quickly. Our capitol builds them every 2 turns and I think 2 other cities were building them too (assuming I didn't switch to knights). We need 6 or 7, I would guess. I would just grab pikes to follow the settlers and then backfill as they are built in the central cities.

I agree completely on building military for a while to offset the settler building I did during my turns. The armies were doing a very good job of removing military threats so I took the opportunity to expand. No enemy unit in our lands ever had more than 1 hp at the end of our turns and mostly the Trebuchets were idle.

 

[Tarkeel]

We aren't building pikes anymore though, but muskets which cost a tad more.