LK76 - AWE - Pangea, No armies, Random Civ

[meldor]

1780 AD (0)
I wake up an elite infantry and take out a 1hp Flak. I draft some infantry to shore up the defenses. We will get REfining this turn but we can't research anything else until ToE is finished in 3 turns. I swap scientist to still get it done in 1 but will turn research off after that. We could do with some upgrading. Civil engineers were already hired in Roosendaal to get the temple next turn, I leave it be. I don hire a CE in Gordium.
(I) We lose an infantry in the open, kill one mech and retreat a cav. Refining comes in a steel is next. Haarlem Cav->Cav, Amsterdam Inf->Inf, Groningen and Eindhoven Arty->Arty, Roosendaal Temple->Walls, New Eindhoven and New Arnhem Walls->Settler. Gouda looses a citizen due to disease.

1782 AD (1)
Pound a rifle near and then kill it with our fresh Cav. I redline 1 infantry and two rifles in Choyr. An elite Cav that had already spawned a leader redlines taking out the 1 hp infantry. The other eleite easily kills a Cav and produces a leader. I lose a Cav but we kill off 4 more rifles to raze the city (they must have had the other rifles resting there). I lose a Cav but take out a stack of 4 guerillas and two Flak. Groningen gets a rush factory.
(I) We lose the walls at Bactra, an infantry and the Treb it was protecting and one exposed Cav that I thought they couldn't reach.

1784 AD (2)
Pound some units near Sidon and pull a leader killing off a redlined Cav. Pound a lot of units but only get to kill 5 Cav, a mech and a rifle. I found two cities to try and move our borders out to the inland sea and try to cut down on defensive line.
(I) We lose one infantry for 4 Cav in the new city with the oil. Two mechs attack an infantry on a hill and retreat. We get ToE and go for Hoover's. We end up working on steel with scientists due in 14.

1786 AD (3)
Swap palace to Hoover's due in 7. Kill 2 Cav, 2 infantry, 3 rifles and one Jag Warrior. It looks like the Babylonians have changed the object of their desire again as they turn and start moving down the mountain chain. I pound as many units as I can and pound the units that healed in the north and come into arty range. The pinged units at Bactra are heading towards Summeria to heal now.
(I) Lots of movement. The only atttacks were on a lone conscript infantry on top of a mountain. He retreats both a Cav and a Mech but doesn't promote.

1788 AD (4)
Pound the replacement Mongol city near Tabriz and use our two new cav to take out the 2 redlined rifles. We found a city to replace it. I killl two mechs and a Cav but lose two Cav. Pound as many units as I can.
(I)They lose two Mechs and a Tank. Lots of Mechs move into our territory. They land a Sumerian tank behind our lines.

1550 AD(5)
Kill 2 Mech but it cost me 2 Cav to get rid of the redlined tank that was dropped off. bombard a rifle on the hill outside Tabriz and move the settler and its protectors into place to found the city next turn. Getting rid of Tabriz will kill a lot of the Mongols culture border on that side and make things a lot easier for us on that end.

I got three more cities up on the line. One more next turn. If we get two more up the coast of the inland sea, it will cut down our exposed cities.

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)
Zwingli
hotrod0823
Meldor

Our general game plan:
1) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it. Please - NO taxmen.
2) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
3) For the most part raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder

Remember 5 to 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies

 

[LKendter]

1790 AD
I pull back some infantry that I don't understand what they were up to on a hill and we finally have some defense in case of marines.

It is nice to see the expanded borders at Roosendaal and the end of that healing zone for the AI.
(IT) I notice the Aztecs are still bombarding the same two cities.

A terrible start as Sumerian bombers takes out the walls in Gordium. Due to this the city is attacked and we lost 2 conscripts and 1 merc while killing just 1 mech. (1-3).


1792 AD
I kill 4 mech, 5 infantry and 2 riflemen. I lost 2 cavalry to 1 hp infantry. (12-5)
I capture an obsolete bucket. I clear out all of the units in the way to attacking Tabriz.
One of the units killed was a landing behind our lines.

I send a suicide explorer to pillage the oil by Isin. It is the ONLY oil connected by Sumeria.

New Delft is formed near Tabriz and we control that choke point.
(IT) Gordium is a bloodbath again as we lost 3 infantry (some conscripts) and 1 merc. We killed 1 mech and 1 tank. (14-7)


1794 AD
I killed 1 infantry and 5 mech. The RnG is really getting an attitude I lost 3 infantry (all elite) and 3 cavalry. (18-11)
I am really getting sick of cleaning up AI landings as 3 more units had to be cleaned up behind our lines. In case you are wondering why attacking infantry - that were the only 5 hp units available to attack.

My planned assault on Tabriz is cancelled due to the RnG shaft.
(IT) I killed 2 injured cavalry that tried to kill a conscript infantry promoted it to regular. (20-11)

Bombers are a pain again as 2 pop is lost in Bactra. 2 tiles are pillaged.


1796 AD
I kill 1 knight and 2 cavalry. (21-11)
The knight was yet another landing behind our lines. I am glad for the rest opportunity.
(IT) I killed 2 cavalry, but lost 1 conscript infantry (23-12)


1798 AD
I kill 5 cavalry, 1 rifleman and 6 infantry. (35-12)
One of the cavalry was yet another landing.

I razed Tabriz for $2 and 3 workers.
(IT) I killed 2 cavalry and 2 mech. I lost 1 infantry attacked by 2 injured Aztec cavalry. (39-13)

I *HATE* Sumerian bombers. Once again the walls at Gordium were destroyed.
Sidon was scary and held with just 1 hp.

Hoover Dam is completed and we get the badly needed production boast.


1800 AD
I killed 1 mech, 2 riflemen, 3 infantry, 1 guerilla and 2 cavalry. (48-13)



Summary:
At the start of my turn we had 9 cavalry, 32 artillery and 53 infantry.
At the end of my turn we had 14 cavalry, 34 artillery and 47 infantry. The pounding in Gordium really hurt us.

It is still ugly as there are just too many Babylon stacks walking around our territory. We are in the race of tanks to hurt Sumeria / Babylon before modern armor appears. Enough modern armor at once could still cost us the game. I never thought I could have an AWE game at 1800 that could still be a loss.

Kill ratio was lousy, but Hoover Dam and another destroyed Mongol city helped. The Mongols are becoming a non-player.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LK76-1800AD.zip


The below is the next piece of the expansion plan. A settler with several escorts is already on red dot.

Red dot gives us backup rubber in case a meltdown in Gordium. In addition it greatly shortens the front lines. Yellow dot simply shortens the line. Green dot gives us luxury #5 and hopefully luxury tax to 0%. These cities will let us get rid of 2 more Mongol towns.

 

[Zwingli]

I send a suicide explorer to pillage the oil by Isin.

That is a good piece of news. If we can keep oil away from Sumeria it will be the end of tanks, mechs, and eventually bombers from them. Unfortunately, these will be replaced by TOWs and perhaps marines, but it is still a more favorable matchup.

 

[meldor]

We have already passed the half way point. When my turn ended we were at 33%land/35% population and we have some pretty small cities. If we keep making gains, and can find cities to get settlers out of (maybe we need to get a round of settlers out of our core cities with full food boxes), I think this one is in the bag. If we can hit the cities with the bombers, that would help as well. With the tech level as high as it is, I assume that some of our opponents are short on resources.

On the lux side, I saw some ivory next to the only visible Sumerian town.

 

[Greebley]

I got it. I will work on grabbing us the 3 city sites.
mentioned.

[Edit: Do we want to head straight for Tanks before flight? There was some talk of wanting to make the game not become bomber based. This would be a good way to acchieve this.]

 

[LKendter]

I had several standby settlers at the end of my turn. A couple of our cities are growing scientists quickly in the core (the former border cities). Most of our junk cities are building settlers. Any city with 2+ specialist is a city to strip a settler out of.

The empire will be in much better shape once my proposed 3 cities are in place. This will make our borders shorter and easier to defend.

The next big race is to get tanks. At the end of my turns steel was close.

The best improvement vs. last round is the number of Mongol troops is way down. We "only" have large Babylon and Sumerian stacks to deal with. Even those Aztec cavalry can be a pain...

 

[LKendter]

[Edit: Do we want to head straight for Tanks before flight? There was some talk of wanting to make the game not become bomber based. This would be a good way to acchieve this.]

I was already thinking tanks for the double attack ability. They would be very effective at getting rid of double cavalry and rifle stacks. This should give us a lot of promotions, and hopefully leaders. We will have a lot of cities lacking banks, stock exchanges, and some even universities.

 

[Greebley]

I took the first interturn and steel dropped to 1 turn. The Aztecs just got it. We are not last in tech as we have Atomic theory over them.

I think we may also want to go for Espionage soon, perhaps after tanks. The reasons are that it will be cheaper to steal modern age techs than research. We can also steal world maps and know where to target resources and also be able to see enemy units. Knowing how many modern armor a civ currently has will be helpful in planning defense.

I think leaders will be better rushing Banks and Stock Exchanges since we will want cash for steals rather than science in the near future. It would also be nice to get to wall street and the 50 gpt bonus.

 

[LKendter]

I won't argue with spies to know get the world map. That and general knowledge of troop strength would be nice. However, I don't want to depend on stealing techs. I don't want to risk wasting several thousand on a failed steal.

I agree that stock exchanges will be nice. It will take awhile to get up to the needed $1000, but an extra $50/turn will help.

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley (currently playing) (vacation Nov 20th to Nov 30th)
Zwingli (on deck)
hotrod0823
Meldor

Our general game plan:
1) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it. Please - NO taxmen.
2) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
3) For the most part raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder

Remember 5 to 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies

 

[meldor]

I had thought about going after espionage even before steel, but decided that tanks first would be nice. I don't think stealing is a bad way to do it, especially to get caught up in tech. Once we get past the critical point (and we are almost there) we can steal tech and steam roll the AIs. I would be suprised to see much MA.

 

[LKendter]

I still am not a big fan of the plan to steal our way to techs. We could actually take longer to get the techs if some steals fail. My preference is still stick with research.

I still would like to propose that we get flight before spies. I am really sick of bombers and would like some flak / fighters to put an end to the bombings. The annoying Sumerian bombers have cost us a lot of pop points, not to buildings, and almost cities. I want that to end.

 

[Greebley]

I played 10 turns because I have a suspicion the game will be won by the time I get back (depending on how fast people play) so this may be my last turns of the game.


Preturn: Things look pretty good. A few minor tweaks.

IBT: Gordium is Assaulted fairly heavily. We lose a few conscript Infantry, but they lose some Mechs.

1802 AD: Lose two Cavalry attacking a single 1hp Infantry who goes to elite on the second. Lose a Cavalry to a 1hp Mech. Kill a tank that was landed, a bunch of Cavalry. Replace the defenders in coastal towns. Build new Breda.

IBT: Win all but 1 battle, losing an infantry.

1804 AD: Bombard and kill about 10 units without loss. Get a Leader which will rush a stock exchange in Amsterdam.

IBT: A bad round. We lose 3 battles of Injured Mech Infantry vs fortified infantry in Gordium (1 infantry was elite). We win only 2. We spot a Babylon TOW

1806 AD: Several attacks. Lose an infantry and a Cavalry to redlined troops. Settler the New den Helder in the next spot.

IBT: No losses.

1808 AD: Lose a Cav vs a Mech. Starting to drive the Babylons back again.

IBT: Dang! They bomb out Gordium's walls.

1810 AD: Destroy the Amarikh near the dyes. I end up putting our town one square ahead from your dot map, Lee. That way it is right on the dyes (defending them in front of the city is very hard), and it allows us to get to Isin in a single turn with Cavalry, plus if we get a border expansion, we can get a square that can bombard Isin from inside our territory.

The dyes allow us to go to 0 lux, with a bit of work, and to 50% science which reduces the time to Combustion a good bit.

IBT: Units mostly go around my cities.

1812 AD: Kill two Babylon stacks.

IBT: Lose an Infantry to enemy attacks. Lose a pop point in Gordium.

1814 AD: Cavalry lost attacking redlined mech. We get a leader. Another stock exchange.
We have a stock exchange in Amsterdam, Groningen, and Rotterdam (hand-built). The Hague is building a bank and Eindhoven has a bank as well. These can be our 5 cities for wall street.

1816 AD: Mostly defend. A few more units killed. Kill 2 redlined mechs without loss. Get another leader

IBT: Bad round. We lose 3 attacks in Gordium costing us 3 infantry.

1818 AD: Send an attack force toward Isen. Get another leader

IBT: It appears my attack force is now just within range of Babylon bombers. We lose 2-3 infantry.

1820 AD: Artillery pounds Isen until the defenders have 1 hp left. We then use our numerous Elite* Cavalry to assault Isen. We lose 3 and 2 more will be lost in the next IBT, but Isen falls.

Notes:
The reason we are at positive gold is to build Wall Street
We have 4 Stock Exchanges and a last turn one turn from building a bank. We also have one leader which can rush the last stock exchange, or wait 4-5 turns for the town to build a stock exchange and use the leader to rush Wall Street.

There are a LOT of infantry piled on our Artillery stack to protect vs the bombers. I don't want it to fail. Next turn bring them back into our territory. We do not want to advance into the range of the Babylon Bombers.

I saw my first Marine this turn. When the infantry get back, defend all coastal cities. Core Coastal cities should really have 2-3 defenders now. I played in a game where the AI launched 4 marines at a city once.

The other towns have reduced defense. When the Isen assault force gets back we should have enough defenders for the coastal towns.

Other advances may also bring us into range of the Babylon bombers. It might be better to go for flight first just so we can build anti-air. Sumeria is getting a lot of bombers and Babylon has more.

Sumeria probably reconnected the oil. I forgot to build a explorer to repillage it.

The attack on Isen meant less damage to units the last two turns, so the next player will need to clean up some of the units advancing into our territory.

I sped up the Temple in New Harlington. If it remains unbombed for 3 more turns we will get a much needed border expansion. It is currently starving so you will need to switch it when the walls complete.

Stats:
17 Cavalry, 52 Infantry (some drafts), 25 Cannon, 40 Artillery, 15 Swiss Mercs.
City Counts: Us - 45, Sumeria - 9, Babylon - 11, Mongols -10, Aztecs -11
Mongols and Aztecs do not have Combustion. We are 5 turns away at +73 gold, 311 gold in the bank (50% science is just about even money).

We have 37% of the land and 47% of the population. Our power graph is up to about 40% We are still weak compared to the Babylons and Sumerians, but strong vs the Mongols and Aztecs.

The one artillery that the enemy will capture was one from Isen. It jumped on a hill to look around. The others (workers and another artillery) were disbanded.

 

[Greebley]

Oh, on the tech issue - if the cost of stealing is 1/2 the cost of researching, you will on average break even. It has been my experience that the cost of stealing can be 1/3 or less the cost of research in the modern era. That may not be true at Emporer difficulty though. We will see.

Anyway, here is the new map:

 

[Zwingli]

Looks like solid progress on the number of cities as we've advanced to the gates of Ur and Karakorum. If the Babylonians have a lot of bombers, it will be really tough to break through the yellow line without flight. Still, Ur makes a tempting, if very costly, target as it contains Leo's, Copernicus, and probably the remaining Sumerian bomber fleet. Aside from Ur, there don't seem to be worthwile targets outside of Babylonian bomber range, so I will try to fill in the existing space.

I notice the Sumerians have generated a leader, although I doubt they will build an army. I'll get it tomorrow, but will definitely only go 5 turns.

 

[LKendter]

just within range of Babylon bombers.

Now two nations hitting us with Bombers.

The reason we are at positive gold is to build Wall Street...

We are 5 turns away at +73 gold, 311 gold in the bank (50% science is just about even money).

I agree as long as science is at maximum positive. I don't want 40% if 50% is still a positive cash flow. I am sick to death of fighting mechs with cavalry, I want tanks NOW! While I agree Wall Street will help, I just can't stand the thought of another turn with without tanks.

Aside from Ur, there don't seem to be worthwhile targets outside of Babylonian bomber range, so I will try to fill in the existing space.

I doubt there is much space to back fill. Most of the areas need a temple at the most to fill in the gaps.


I notice we still have the Babylonian troop line inside our borders. Some things don't change.

Where did all the crater damage on the map come from?

=============================

Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley (vacation Nov 20th to Nov 30th)
Zwingli (currently playing)
Hotrod0823 (on deck)
Meldor

Our general game plan:
1) Science research must be aggressive. Please - NO taxmen and all scientist.
2) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
3) For the most part raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder

Remember 5 to 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies

 

[meldor]

There looks to be plenty to fill in towards Ur. That citiy should be our next target and if IIRC it has ivory which would be good to deny to the AI. Ur is also a city that is likely close to the Capital and crippling or eliminating another Civ would be nice.

 

[Greebley]

We can run also run with a small deficit at 50% science if we wish. Wall St. can be built in 5 or 6 turns if we hand build the last Stock exchange and then rush Wall St. That means in 25 turns we will break even in terms of science since we get additional gpt if we keep 1000 gold in the bank.

Alternatively, we can raise science for the last push for tanks so we go to zero gold. Since Wall St generated extra gold, we get tanks faster.

In other words, getting Wall St in 5 turns and saving up some cash can get us tanks faster than putting all our gold into science now.

The absolute fastest way to get to tanks is to be at 1000 gold in 5 turns; stay at 1000 gold as long as possible, but then raise science to 100% on the final tech to end up at 0 gold on the same turn we get tanks.

Finally, if the Aztecs and Mongols get combustion, the price will be cheaper, meaning we can put less beakers into it. We don't know if this will happen, but if they do get it in 4 or less turns, then we will get it on the same turn no matter what science rate we run.

I guess the point is that saving money up doesn't necessarily mean slower tech as you can later raise the research rate and use up the money to get the tech on the same turn. With Wall St can actually mean you can get a tech faster by saving up first if you are willing to burn the gold reserve for the tech.

--------------------
So given we want Tanks as fast as possible I would:
1) Hand build the Stock exchange in The Hague (the city the leader is in).
2) Use the leader to rush Wall St.
3) Save up 1000 gold on the same turn we get Wall St.
4) Raise science to 100% when we are on the last tech and go to 0 gold again.

Of course, step 4 will slow down getting planes, but we will get tanks a turn or two faster than we would if we just researched at full.

 

[LKendter]

We can run also run with a small deficit at 50% science if we wish...

The absolute fastest way to get to tanks is to be at 1000 gold in 5 turns; stay at 1000 gold as long as possible, but then raise science to 100% on the final tech to end up at 0 gold on the same turn we get tanks.

If 50% science = deficit, then we need to stick with 40% for now. I misread somehow and thought 50% was a slight plus and for me that was good enough.

Once we hit $1000 I don't want to give it up. An extra $50/turn does help our weak economy.

My problem is the tech situation in the game is frustrating me big time with fighting mechs with cavalry. I really feel if we avoided the little things that slowed down science rate that we would have tanks already.


Now if the game didn't start with the Arbela military disaster...