LN1 - "Great works are performed, not by strength, but by perseverance."

[namliaM]

I think for now we want numbers over quality, to get more exploration. But we probably want an archer for settler escort duty, once we reach that point. A bear or two barbs at once is always a risk.

Never escort a settler, fogbust ahead of it that way you prevent nasty situations like that.

He almost ended up dead, and is spending more time healing than exploring, though.

My post was "shouldnt" instead of should. I agree use CC (anyone know that series The Nanny??) for jungle scouting.

Pottery also opens one path to Writing.

So does AH... Granary, with low hammers we would have to whip it... or use settler overflow... It will surely pay for itself...
With my given idea for builds, the settler will not be out anytime soon... needing the AH. So yes, probably Pottery = better.

Speaking of connecting stone, we need to find time to research Sailing for coastal trade connections. Or else build a bunch of road. (Which we will want eventually, but for now we have better things for our worker(s) to do.)

Sailing is up there allright, if only to connect us to Joaoaoaoaoaoa, presuming he is coastal.

Something like Pottery>Myst>AH>Writing>Sailing>Masonry>Math seems like a nice path... Tho if we want to go for Hedge and Mids we will want masonry much earlier.

I'm more used to Epic speed, and expected the mining to take longer. I'll do better next time.

Dont sweat it, I like Epic more too. Just trying to be critical of play (as per request in the original post IIRC)

Archers and axes will be needed to keep our copper mine intact.

Agreed not to long... but atleast 2 warriors... maybe a third... but that should be about it. And we can allways build Archers even without Copper.
Yes it will cost a worker turn, but I think it is worth it. (jump up and speak up if you disagree!)

I think our first city should be the gold one! Get the commerce flowing + the GSs popping with writing.

 

[namliaM]

We have 0.97% of the domination limit in land tiles. At 12 tiles.
Joaoao has 2% => His capitol must be completly land (or he must have allready planted a settler??

I researche Pottery => AH Next research target: Writing?? So we can start a library in New York?

I produced what I suggested.
Our surroundings

Not much new, I drew the cities I proposed on the map.
Also I signed the warriors
1) Up north the Stone scouting warrior
2) SW of the capitol the Fog Busting warrior
3) CC down south-east with still 2 more turns to heal after beeing malled by another Lion.

Also I drew some additional cities...
G = Gold city, prio 1 I think
P = Pigs city, #2 for now
C = Cows #3 for now, but nothing to special
B = Banana, much later but nice coastal production city if we can clear the jungle.

If we really want to go Quality over quantity, maybe we should merge B and C to one city and move P south one tile... eventho it is 1 off the coast to grab that copper

Suggested production in Washington, Workboat (soon finish) => Warrior => Settler
Maybe insert a turn or 2 into a granary or library.
Build the settler to anything close to but over 60 hammers left whip for 3 and overflow into a granary?

Bumpety bump Chris !

 

[ChrisFromLux]

Just checking in to let you know I'm still around.

I didn't have much time today, and I won't be able to play my set tomorrow either.

But I should be able to post my comments tomorrow morning, and play my set on Thursday evening, a bit less than 48 hours from now (GMT+1)

 

[ChrisFromLux]

I have no idea. I suppose it could be. I was able to load and run the save, though, so it doesn't seem too important. Let's see if anyone else sees the same odd behaviors.

I experienced the same. I have Civ configured to automatically start-up using the most recent HOF-Mod.

And when loading the save-file itself, without starting BtS first, I loaded with HOF-Mod, only to give that same error that the mod 'None' was needed.
But when starting BtS first, unloading the mod, and then loading the file from in-game, there's no error

 

[haphazard1]

I experienced the same. I have Civ configured to automatically start-up using the most recent HOF-Mod.

And when loading the save-file itself, without starting BtS first, I loaded with HOF-Mod, only to give that same error that the mod 'None' was needed.
But when starting BtS first, unloading the mod, and then loading the file from in-game, there's no error

Thanks for confirming I'm not losing my mind _quite_ yet.

I also have my BtS configured to start with the latest HOF. I'll try unloading that and then opening the game file.

 

[haphazard1]

Nice set, namliaM! Not a lot of "big stuff" happening, but important prep for the glorious future of our people.

We have 0.97% of the domination limit in land tiles. At 12 tiles.
Joaoao has 2% => His capitol must be completly land (or he must have allready planted a settler??

Joao does get cheap settlers for his imperialistic trait, but probably it is just a land-locked capital. Washington has a LOT of water tiles. In fact, we should consider the Moai Statues (dependent on our plans for other national wonders). Lighthouse and Moai would give us a lot of 2/1/2 tiles, with plenty of food to grow over time as we raise the happy cap. Maybe not what we want for our capital, though.

I researche Pottery => AH Next research target: Writing?? So we can start a library in New York?

Writing seems like a good goal. Library and some scientists will really get our research moving. Depending on just when our settler will be done, we need to keep Sailing in mind so we will be networked.

Also I signed the warriors
1) Up north the Stone scouting warrior
2) SW of the capitol the Fog Busting warrior
3) CC down south-east with still 2 more turns to heal after beeing malled by another Lion.

Excellent. Stone scout should quickly reveal whether we can get a half-decent city with stone. (I note you conspicuously left the stone site out of your dot map. ) If the site is a dead loss, then we have a tough decision for our Pyramid plan. If there is something nice to the east, we can make plans.

CC sure is having a struggle, isn't he? A couple more victories, and Charismatic will give him another promo.

Also I drew some additional cities...
G = Gold city, prio 1 I think
P = Pigs city, #2 for now
C = Cows #3 for now, but nothing to special
B = Banana, much later but nice coastal production city if we can clear the jungle.

Much depends on stone scout's findings, and whether horses appear anywhere with AH. I like Gold city, despite the overlap with the capital. Close == less maintenance, plus lots of food, a pre-calendar happy resource, and a strategic chokepoint. (We need to get someone exploring across that land bridge.)

C and B are both suspiciously lacking in resources. I'm guessing there is at least one hidden resource in that region. Maybe horses (would be nice), but that jungle may have oil (nice later, useless for a long time to come). That whole southwest-to-south coastline is oddly barren of seafood as well. Still, B is a nice production city in the future.

I also rather like the area where CC is healing. River, rice, sugar, some hills -- pretty tasty.

I kind of like P one south, to include the copper. But I hate settling one off the coast. Hopefully there are some horses somewhere on all that grass, and we can fit two good cities (P and C).

Suggested production in Washington, Workboat (soon finish) => Warrior => Settler
Maybe insert a turn or 2 into a granary or library.
Build the settler to anything close to but over 60 hammers left whip for 3 and overflow into a granary?

Whip for 3? Will we have 6 pop by that time? We're at 4 currently, right? (Haven't had a chance to open the save yet.) I think we want the settler pretty quick, definitely. Do we wait until we hit size 5 (building an escort in the meantime), or do we start the settler as soon as the workboat is done?

I would like to get the granary soon, especially if we are going with 2 and 3 pop whips. That's a pretty brutal cutback, even with all the food in Washington.

One item I would like to raise: money. Specifically, our treasury is empty. Are random events on for this game? If they are, we should think about accumulating a cash reserve so we can take advantage of/mitigate them.

"Build more marketplaces, sire, so that the finest goods (strokes cloth along arm) will be traded in our cities."

Oops, sorry, had a flashback there.

Usually a hut or two gives some initial cash. Not that I'm complaining about the two techs LN popped for us. But we are flat broke.

To summarize my thoughts:

0) Nice work, namliaM!
1) Build a settler Real Soon Now
2) Destination TBD based on stone scout's exploration and AH revealing horses
3) Writing after AH, or possibly Sailing if our second city will be founded before both would be finished.

And oh yeah, keep CC swinging that club!

 

[haphazard1]

Never escort a settler, fogbust ahead of it that way you prevent nasty situations like that.

I usually try to do some of both. Two-move barb animals can spring a nasty surprise. Plus your fogbuster may meet a bear or two units.

Dont sweat it, I like Epic more too. Just trying to be critical of play (as per request in the original post IIRC)

No problem. Constructive criticism is good -- I want to learn and improve my game, and this is one of the best aspects of SG play.

I think our first city should be the gold one! Get the commerce flowing + the GSs popping with writing.

Let's see what stone scout finds, and whether there are any horses nearby. If there is nothing to improve the stone site, I agree that gold city should be first. We will be able to build a second settler pretty quickly, and having a second strong city with gold to fund maintenance/research and keep us growing while the capital is busy with a wonder will be crucial.

But if there is a good food source (or silver or gems) up near the stone, I think it's Pyramids all the way. We should be so lucky.

One other thought on tech path: with our settler being fairly soon, we also need Mysticism so it will be able to pop borders without waiting millenia. So Mysticism + Sailing by the time we found the second city -- maybe Writing should wait a bit? It seems likely the capital will be busy with another settler pretty quickly, whatever happens, so the library isn't quite as urgent.

 

[Lush Ninja]

Whoa. It seems I signed on some post whores. Not that I wasn't looking for that

When I get back from work I'll give this a rundown.

One thing I must say, is thank god this is a SG. If I had played this regularly, I would've been whupped (mistakes already ).

Mysticism + Sailing works to save our worker for more important tasks (also to claim any resources that may be had round our second city).

I say whatever city we found should be towards Joao, as the gold city will be easy to get. The gold is the only thing....

 

[haphazard1]

Whoa. It seems I signed on some post whores. Not that I wasn't looking for that

Sorry for the verbosity -- I've had some time available the last couple days. I won't always be like this, really.

When I get back from work I'll give this a rundown.

One thing I must say, is thank god this is a SG. If I had played this regularly, I would've been whupped (mistakes already ).

I made a couple unforced errors in my turnset as well. But learning is part of the SG experience. Along with relying on our teammates to help bail us out of trouble.

Mysticism + Sailing works to save our worker for more important tasks (also to claim any resources that may be had round our second city).

We will want more workers for road networks (speed movement and internal defensive lines) and for clearing jungle. Plus developing resources, of course. But our first couple cities will be up before we have worker turns available to connect everything.

I say whatever city we found should be towards Joao, as the gold city will be easy to get. The gold is the only thing....

We don't know for sure where Joaoaoaoaoao of the very large hat is. His archer appeared to the NE, but he could be from the southeast as well. Due south or west seem very unlikely, given the position and time when we spotted him, but they can't be ruled out completely. And of course there could be other AIs in those directions.

What map type did we end up on? I forgot to check when I had the game open -- is it Big & Small or Hemispheres? With 6 AIs, we might have only one or two neighbors reachable until later in the game, in which case trade could be non-existent. Most AIs will not trade if they only know one other civ.

Hopefully stone scout or Cougar Clubber will spot Portugese borders at some point, and we'll have a better idea where the land will be contested.

 

[Lush Ninja]

Hey, don't be sorry! That's what I wanted. Just jozzing ya.

Well, as for Jo's direction, I believe that starting placements are not usually in the jungle, thus a due easterly direction is the most logical place for him to come from. He could have beelined for us, but he met us pretty early (with an archer, right?) which means that he's not all the way across the jungle (the other possibility).

Excellent turns Namlia. Continue to point out our errors, we'll appreciate it in the future. As for next steps, I say we can skip AH for now. We have copper, so I think Mysticism then Sailing/Writing (whatever works for a second city, though without Masonry sailing is pointless).

The map type is big and small, with interspersed islands, so we only need a galley/work boat to find the rest of the civs (which should be our aim ASAP).

For builds, finish getting the rest of the clams with another work boat, then if we already have 3 units, we should claim that stone site (if there's another resource there). If not, the pig/copper site is good because of the fact that (as I said) the gold city we can claim anytime. The queue Namlia suggested sounds good.

The first thing we should be building in our new city should be a monument, what do you all think?

 

[namliaM]

Depending on just when our settler will be done, we need to keep Sailing in mind so we will be networked.

If we do go for G, it will be networked regardless of Sailing or not. One can trade on coast withing cultural bounds regardsless of tech.

I note you conspicuously left the stone site out of your dot map.
....
I like Gold city, despite the overlap with the capital. Close == less maintenance, plus lots of food, a pre-calendar happy resource, and a strategic chokepoint.

Well I am still not sold on the stone city, and I think we should go for the "strong(er)" cities first... that IMHO are G and P.

That is not a chocke point... as far as I can tell only water surrounds it.

I also rather like the area where CC is healing. River, rice, sugar, some hills -- pretty tasty.

Yes definatly, but... I thought it was
1) To much unrevealed in the immediate area
2) Jungle
3) Distance
to even think about how to fill that up...

I kind of like P one south, to include the copper. But I hate settling one off the coast.

Some more scouting may reveal a nice city to pick up the copper later in another city.

Whip for 3? Will we have 6 pop by that time?

Not quite, workboat => Warrior will see us to size 5 and +10 food.
Which would give us 3 turns to grow to size 6...

So Mysticism + Sailing by the time we found the second city -- maybe Writing should wait a bit?

Like I said we dont need Sailing if G is the target. + G will grow like crazy, barrow the Clams from Washington (while Washington grows) and the Pigs and Corn... I havent done the math yet... but size 6 shouldnt be THAT far away to whip the lib for 3 and start working scientists . Then again we probably want a monument anyway (unless we wait/hope/pray for Hedge) for the happyness... So yeah maybe get a monument in ASAP (whip it?)
It will have 2 hammers while working the Pigs (AH!!!!) that is 15 turns to hand build the Monument. On the other hand if we dont whip it... means we can whip a granary faster and a library faster

On workers, I think we need to go something like Settler / Worker / Settler Worker. Maybe G or P can even build a worker, but with 10 surplus food in Washington and the 7 hammers, thats 17 production towards those = 4 turns for a worker... 6 for a settler if we deside to hand build it. Seeing as we are a little strapped for hammers ATM I can see merit in Whipping everything for max overflow hammers Worker >= 31 (2 pop) hammer left and settler >= 61 (3 pop) or >=31 (2 pop)

Expanding towards the AI is allways a good idea, but skipping the gold ??? at 6 GPT?? Hell no... gold = golden IMHO

Worker actions IMHO should include to finish that road after the workboat => Warrior combo. Then start roading towards the gold.
Workboat => Warroir = 5 turns.
Wait 3 more turns (Granary? or another warrior?) hit size 6
2 turns into the settler, whip it for 3.
Total 5 + 3 + 3 before the settler actually hits the ground.
In those 11 turns the worker should preferably (assuming the gold city)
1) Road the forest SE of Washington (walk around the river) 3 turns
2) Road the forrest East of the Copper (hooking up copper, so time it with the warrior build) 3 turns
3) Road the tile south of the copper 2 turns
That allows the settler to get to the goldhill in 1 turn instead of 3.... That road should take him 8 turns...

 

[Winth]

The dotmap sounds good. Good idea with splitting all four resources into several cities - originally I had thoughts to hook bananas, cows, gold and corn all in the same city, but you, sir, just rock.

Get our cities up and running. Granary is a top priority. Grow those cities, we have no real penalty for a city upkeep

Colossus seems even more viable with the city marked "G"...

 

[namliaM]

B as it currently is with IW can be a real powerhouse city...

I think settling a city 2 SE of G would make one overpowered city and make the Pigs unworkable. That pig hill looks like "the end" for land there.

Can we/will we build any cottages at all or are we going "pure" SE?

I am totaly not sold on getting a granary in Washington at this time...

Also, an alternative to waiting for size 6 to whip the settler for 3 is to build it at size 4-ish.
Wait 2 turns for the workboat to finish, start the settler @ 13 hammers/turn build it to >30 hammers (70/13) 5 turns, whip it for 2 overflow into something else.
Which would put it on the ground in 8 turns from now, which is 3 turns earlier than the 3 pop whip.
In those 8 turns we can also (just) finish the same road... So it works too

 

[haphazard1]

Well, as for Jo's direction, I believe that starting placements are not usually in the jungle, thus a due easterly direction is the most logical place for him to come from. He could have beelined for us, but he met us pretty early (with an archer, right?) which means that he's not all the way across the jungle (the other possibility).

Joao's archer showed up after 1 or 2 turns of my set, so about turn 22. Given a not entirely straight path, figure 15-20 tiles from us. That might barely be enough for a straight NW-SE line to somewhere south of the jungle, far SE. But you're right that pretty much directly east is the most likely.

Excellent turns Namlia. Continue to point out our errors, we'll appreciate it in the future. As for next steps, I say we can skip AH for now. We have copper, so I think Mysticism then Sailing/Writing (whatever works for a second city, though without Masonry sailing is pointless).

We're partly done with AH, and I think we do want it. If we go gold city, we can immediately improve the pigs. Plus, it will reveal horses -- I'm hoping for some out on all that grass to our ESE.

Mysticism is definitely needed for a monument in our new city. It doesn't look like we are going for Stonehenge -- we have settlers to build, plus some more workers and infra (granary, library), which are likely to payoff better than delaying our growth for 12 or so turns.

I think we also want Sailing for connectivity, although namliaM had some thoughts on that (see below). River and coastal trade will be useful in any case, lighthouses, plus we may want a galley or two for exploration and ferry service.

The map type is big and small, with interspersed islands, so we only need a galley/work boat to find the rest of the civs (which should be our aim ASAP).

We should consider whether to build a galley or two and send them out exploring opposite directions, with an eye on the circumnavigation bonus. We would likely meet an AI or three, and get a head start on fast ships and learning who is where.

The first thing we should be building in our new city should be a monument, what do you all think?

If it is gold city, monument first will be needed to pop the borders and get all our resources in range. Stone city really depends on other resources -- if there aren't any, then the monument could probably wait quite a while.

If we do go for G, it will be networked regardless of Sailing or not. One can trade on coast withing cultural bounds regardsless of tech.

Are you certain on this? I thought the tech was required, even inside cultural boundaries. But I am not certain. I would hate to not be connected and miss out on the extra commerce; 2 free commerce is a big boost at the moment.

Well I am still not sold on the stone city, and I think we should go for the "strong(er)" cities first... that IMHO are G and P.

Stone scout should pretty quickly (4-5 more turns) reveal if there is anything else useful near the stone. If not, gold city all the way. But leaving the stone until city #4 or later probably means no Pyramids.

Maybe gold city, with stone as #3? I agree that a strong second city is key to growing our civ rapidly.

That is not a chocke point... as far as I can tell only water surrounds it.

I thought it looked like a land bridge, probably connecting to the land we can see across the water from Washington. Is it definite there is no land crossing?

If not, we need to build a galley fairly quickly and get a unit over to the sheep landmass to explore. Close to the capital, sheep at least -- we will want a city over there.

Yes definatly, but... I thought it was
1) To much unrevealed in the immediate area
2) Jungle
3) Distance
to even think about how to fill that up...

For now, certainly. I was just thinking to the future (something like city #7 or 8, maybe). Jungle is a pain and requires lots of worker-turns to improve, but the resources make it worthwhile over time. By the time we expand that far, we'll have Iron Working and Calendar and will want the happy resource for our larger cities.

Some more scouting may reveal a nice city to pick up the copper later in another city.

I am just wondering if Joao will claim it so he can build axes and spears. He did swap to slavery at the end of my turnset (should have mentioned this), and his archer wandered right by there. So if he doesn't have copper anywhere closer, he is going to beeline that site with one of his cheap imperialistic settlers.

Not quite, workboat => Warrior will see us to size 5 and +10 food.
Which would give us 3 turns to grow to size 6...

Like I said we dont need Sailing if G is the target. + G will grow like crazy, barrow the Clams from Washington (while Washington grows) and the Pigs and Corn... I havent done the math yet... but size 6 shouldnt be THAT far away to whip the lib for 3 and start working scientists . Then again we probably want a monument anyway (unless we wait/hope/pray for Hedge) for the happyness... So yeah maybe get a monument in ASAP (whip it?)
It will have 2 hammers while working the Pigs (AH!!!!) that is 15 turns to hand build the Monument. On the other hand if we dont whip it... means we can whip a granary faster and a library faster

This is a lot of whipping, for a city with no granary. I don't think we should be doing multi-pop whips without a granary first.

On workers, I think we need to go something like Settler / Worker / Settler Worker. Maybe G or P can even build a worker, but with 10 surplus food in Washington and the 7 hammers, thats 17 production towards those = 4 turns for a worker... 6 for a settler if we deside to hand build it. Seeing as we are a little strapped for hammers ATM I can see merit in Whipping everything for max overflow hammers Worker >= 31 (2 pop) hammer left and settler >= 61 (3 pop) or >=31 (2 pop)

Again this is aggressive whipping -- I'm not sure it is needed. If we are building a settler in 6 turns anyway, where is the need to whip? We need to get a granary ASAP if we are planning this much whipping, either with the first overflow or whipped outright once the settler is done. Cutting down our population to save 1 or 2 turns doesn't seem that worthwhile to me. Finish the settler by hand and save the big whip for a library -- AFTER we have a granary.

Expanding towards the AI is allways a good idea, but skipping the gold ??? at 6 GPT?? Hell no... gold = golden IMHO

Stone scout will reveal what is east of the stone before we have a settler. We should also know if horses appear and alter the options.

Get our cities up and running. Granary is a top priority. Grow those cities, we have no real penalty for a city upkeep

I agree -- granaries early. Maybe after a monument in a new city which needs a border pop to use all its resources.

Colossus seems even more viable with the city marked "G"...

Mmmm, wonder mongering. I like it.

With a lot of coast and islands, the Colossus would be nice to have. But unless we go for an Oracle -> Metal Casting sling, it is a long ways off.

 

[haphazard1]

I am totaly not sold on getting a granary in Washington at this time...

I do not understand why we would not want a granary in Washington. We're talking multiple 2- and 3-pop whips (settler, library, monument, ?). The granary will more than pay for itself just from regrowing after the settler and library whips.

I think we should put the overflow from the settler whip into a granary, and then finish the granary by hand as the city regrows. We will then have the full benefit for the later library whip, possible monument whip, etc.

Also, an alternative to waiting for size 6 to whip the settler for 3 is to build it at size 4-ish.
Wait 2 turns for the workboat to finish, start the settler @ 13 hammers/turn build it to >30 hammers (70/13) 5 turns, whip it for 2 overflow into something else.
Which would put it on the ground in 8 turns from now, which is 3 turns earlier than the 3 pop whip.
In those 8 turns we can also (just) finish the same road... So it works too

I like the build at size 4 option -- we do want that settler out and our second city growing. And I would like to see the overflow go into a granary.

 

[namliaM]

Are you certain on this? I thought the tech was required, even inside cultural boundaries. But I am not certain. I would hate to not be connected and miss out on the extra commerce; 2 free commerce is a big boost at the moment.

Yes I am absolutly certain. Coast, rivers and even Ocean withing cultural boundries ARE ways of connecting cities 100%

I thought it looked like a land bridge,

Nope definatly pig are a dead end.

Stone scout should pretty quickly (4-5 more turns) reveal if there is anything else useful near the stone. If not, gold city all the way. But leaving the stone until city #4 or later probably means no Pyramids.

Why? I mean we have like 9 forrests = 9*30 hammers (with Math) = 270 which is more than half the Mids anyway,even without stone... I am sure we can "whip-overflow" atleast 2 times, thats another 60 hammers making 330.
And with 13 hammers for the rest, 170/13 = 14 turns... thats not that long...

Again this is aggressive whipping -- I'm not sure it is needed. If we are building a settler in 6 turns anyway, where is the need to whip? We need to get a granary ASAP if we are planning this much whipping, either with the first overflow or whipped outright once the settler is done. Cutting down our population to save 1 or 2 turns doesn't seem that worthwhile to me. Finish the settler by hand and save the big whip for a library -- AFTER we have a granary.

Settlers and workers are build by food and we have plenty of it, but Granaries and Libraries are build by hammers for which we are currently a little short vs the food supply. Which is why I suggest we whip out the first settler, start a building to grow and then whip either the building or another settler/worker.
I would like to postpone any chopping to mathmatics... But get chopping asap... which IMHO means Math Beeline, in this case:
AH > Writing (get OBs with Joaoao) > Myst > Masonry > Math

I think...

So Maoi statues in Washington or New York (gold city)

 

[Winth]

I agree -- granaries early. Maybe after a monument in a new city which needs a border pop to use all its resources.

Where is my Stoneheeeengeee?

Mmmm, wonder mongering. I like it.

With a lot of coast and islands, the Colossus would be nice to have. But unless we go for an Oracle -> Metal Casting sling, it is a long ways off.

The Metal Casting grab with the Oracle has one big strength - we are going for Domination, right? A fast forge in our big cities will give us more production. Not only we will have faster units, our enemies won't for quite a long time (it's a hell of an expensive tech!). So let's print units and go go go. It will create a biiig synergy. And Colossus with Copper is usually so darn cheap (it's 200 hammers, our capital has about 10 hammers in its disposal) that we won't have problem snagging it. Metal Casting is also a tech that we can sell to our enemies for techs or...

...bribe warmongers to pushover the other AIs. I am not very familiar with Big&Small, but we can take another step by letting them beat each other - hampering their tech rate - buying us a time for a stack of advanced units.

I love it when a plan comes together... (I just watched an A-Team episode, the first episode of the series in my life. Sue me!)

 

[haphazard1]

Yes I am absolutly certain. Coast, rivers and even Ocean withing cultural boundries ARE ways of connecting cities 100%

OK. I've never seen (or at least seen and noticed) this before. Chalk one up to the SG learning experience.

Nope definatly pig are a dead end.

I think this increases the need to explore that land we can see across the water from Washington. We could send a workboat to explore, but a galley and a unit would be better. If it is a small island, we can claim it later for a sheep city. But if it is another sizable land mass, we will want a foothold on land that close to our capital.

Why? I mean we have like 9 forrests = 9*30 hammers (with Math) = 270 which is more than half the Mids anyway,even without stone... I am sure we can "whip-overflow" atleast 2 times, thats another 60 hammers making 330.
And with 13 hammers for the rest, 170/13 = 14 turns... thats not that long...

Chopping 9 forests will take more than 14 turns, even with a couple more workers doing nothing else. And it would take all our forests at the capital.

I think if we decide we want the Pyramids, we should settle the stone -- even if it is a sub-par city. The gain building the wonder is big enough, and a slow-growing commerce-centered fishing village has some value of its own. And having stone would be useful later as well -- cheap walls, castles, other wonders (including Moai, IIRC).

And I'm still hoping there is another resource east of the stone to make the settle-or-not decision an easy one.

Settlers and workers are build by food and we have plenty of it, but Granaries and Libraries are build by hammers for which we are currently a little short vs the food supply. Which is why I suggest we whip out the first settler, start a building to grow and then whip either the building or another settler/worker.
I would like to postpone any chopping to mathmatics... But get chopping asap... which IMHO means Math Beeline, in this case:
AH > Writing (get OBs with Joaoao) > Myst > Masonry > Math

I think...

This sounds good to me. I would just like the building we overflow into from the first settler to be the granary. Then we will benefit as we regrow, and will continue to benefit after later whips.

On the tech path, how will the timing work out for Mysticism and the founding of New York? Will it be done in time for us to start a monument in the new city?

<checks map again> For your suggested placement, I guess it may not matter. The pigs and corn will be in the inner ring anyway. But the gold will need a border pop.

So Maoi statues in Washington or New York (gold city)

I think New York will be a better choice -- it only has the gold hill (and borrowing copper hill from Washington) for hammers, and will get more benefit from boosted water tiles. Washingon has copper and two future grass hill mines for hammers, plus 4 fewer water tiles.

Where is my Stoneheeeengeee?

I admit that I still like the idea of Stonehenge myself. One larger project at our capital, rather than every city having to come up with hammers for its own monument. But we would need Mysticism and then a big push ASAP, which would mean delaying our first couple settlers. I think we need to found Gold City quickly, and another city not too long after (stone or pigs, depending on what stone scout finds).

The Metal Casting grab with the Oracle has one big strength - we are going for Domination, right? A fast forge in our big cities will give us more production. Not only we will have faster units, our enemies won't for quite a long time (it's a hell of an expensive tech!). So let's print units and go go go. It will create a biiig synergy. And Colossus with Copper is usually so darn cheap (it's 200 hammers, our capital has about 10 hammers in its disposal) that we won't have problem snagging it. Metal Casting is also a tech that we can sell to our enemies for techs or...

...bribe warmongers to pushover the other AIs. I am not very familiar with Big&Small, but we can take another step by letting them beat each other - hampering their tech rate - buying us a time for a stack of advanced units.

An Oracle -> MC sling is an attractive idea, although there are other nice possibilties as well, like Oracle -> CoL for early Caste and our own religion. Either scenario means we need to start thinking about teching to Priesthood and getting building, though. Facing 6 Monarch AIs, at least one of them will make an early grab for the wonder. And if they happen to be Industrious or have marble....

I love it when a plan comes together... (I just watched an A-Team episode, the first episode of the series in my life. Sue me!)

Oooh, where's the number for my lawyer?

 

[ChrisFromLux]

OK, I'm back again ... RL keeps me a bit busy these days ...

For now, I'll limit myself to my next 10 turns, and I hope to find the time to join the general discussions soon!


I'll just do what you've discussed; I see nothing I wouldn't agree with:
Techs: finish AH, start Writing
Washington: finish WB (2 turns), start Settler (5 turns = 65), whip for 2 pop, start Granary
Worker: road SE of Washington, then E of Copper, then S of copper. By then, the settler is out, so he moves to the pigs of that 2nd city?!?
Stone Scout: scout Stone-Area, then continue moving E
Cougar Clubber: heal (2 turns), then scout eastwards, while trying to stay in forests/jungles to profit from double-moves
Fog Buster: Ahem, keep fogbusting

 

[ChrisFromLux]

... an A-Team episode, the first episode of the series in my life ...

The first episode of your life???

That can't be true!?! I think I have seen them all ... 3 or 4 times