Lonely Hannibal Shadow (Iso game)

[Jellybug]

@krikav what's your priority on scientific method/ communism? after steel obviously, but communism before rifles or after?

 

[Fish Man]

@krikav what's your priority on scientific method/ communism? after steel obviously, but communism before rifles or after?

Always communism after rifles, though immediately after. It will hurt your economy a LOT, but enemies (even peaceful ones like Mansa) will get rifles or at least grens and cuirs 90% of the time by the point you land. Going unprotected-cannons against such forces is a death wish, even if they are weak and have like 5 units every city.

 

[krikav]

I was going to say "it depends", but as @Fish Man says, you really want to keep your cannons safe.
But if you have well promoted elephants, and a large sturdy stack of muskets (perhaps even some promoted guerilla?) you can feel safe even w/o rifling.

But communisms value is relative too. Here in this map I didn't really build any workshops on my starting island. So no bonus from that.
You also don't _need_ communism for the economical benefits until you have 3+ cities offshore comming out of revolt, and even still if there is courthouses in some of those you can possibly delay abit longer.
But if you aren't careful, colony expenses will sooner or later completely tank the economy, and communism takes care of that entierly.

 

[konata_LS]

@krikav
Certainly big thank to @ Henrik75 ! I'm going to watch his videos soon. Playing along before watching videos makes the game more fun

For experienced Deity players like you, it's certainly possible and fun to apply some original and creative military actions, like attacking with mounted units + Airships in an Iso map . But for noobs like me who play the Iso for the first time, Cannons remains a safe choice, though a little boring .

Spoiler :

Thanks for your detailed suggestion!

Yes, going straight to Steel saves many turns, especially on higher levels when techs become more expensive. I went for Lib mostly for Communism after lib, as without State Property, it would be hard to afford the captured cities on the other continent. But research Steel and other military techs before Communism would be more optimal, for earlier attack date.

By the way, I find Hannibal's UB suits well this map, because it enables you to enjoy benefits under SP while all your coastal cities have +1TR like Free market. Besides, Cothon is a building which may survive in the captured cities.

Put whipping overflow combined with chopping to finish Granary, I've rarely used it before. I thought I should only whip after building a Granary .

So Theocracy and OR would be the most frequently used religion civics. Thanks for telling me that!

You mentioned GAges, that reminds me another weakness in my game. In this game, I only generated 4 GPeople. I didn't have a spare GPerson to start a golden age. For an Isolation/Fractal game who lasts around 300 turns, how many great people should be generated?
I think I'm not the only player who have this weakness about great people management, IIRC, @ Fabled also talked about it in the last Cathy NC

 

[Fish Man]

@krikav
Certainly big thank to @ Henrik75 ! I'm going to watch his videos soon. Playing along before watching videos makes the game more fun

For experienced Deity players like you, it's certainly possible and fun to apply some original and creative military actions, like attacking with mounted units + Airships in an Iso map . But for noobs like me who play the Iso for the first time, Cannons remains a safe choice, though a little boring .

Spoiler :

Thanks for your detailed suggestion!

Yes, going straight to Steel saves many turns, especially on higher levels when techs become more expensive. I went for Lib mostly for Communism after lib, as without State Property, it would be hard to afford the captured cities on the other continent. But research Steel and other military techs before Communism would be more optimal, for earlier attack date.

By the way, I find Hannibal's UB suits well this map, because it enables you to enjoy benefits under SP while all your coastal cities have +1TR like Free market. Besides, Cothon is a building which may survive in the captured cities.

Put whipping overflow combined with chopping to finish Granary, I've rarely used it before. I thought I should only whip after building a Granary .

So Theocracy and OR would be the most frequently used religion civics. Thanks for telling me that!

You mentioned GAges, that reminds me another weakness in my game. In this game, I only generated 4 GPeople. I didn't have a spare GPerson to start a golden age. For an Isolation/Fractal game who lasts around 300 turns, how many great people should be generated?
I think I'm not the only player who have this weakness about great people management, IIRC, @ Fabled also talked about it in the last Cathy NC

Wait, what difficulty are you on? If it's emperor or below, no need to go rifling before communism, actually. Cannons + whatever will do, and you may clear the map without anybody ever even reaching rifling by the end. I was under the assumption you were on deity, for some reason.

 

[Jellybug]

I asked the question with a mind to Immortal, which seems to be kind of a tweener

 

[Fish Man]

I asked the question with a mind to Immortal, which seems to be kind of a tweener

IIRC I played a Hammy lonely hearts club a few years ago, and only the very last AI at the end got rifling (which was a moot point because I had, y'know, artillery by then). I would say, "it doesn't really matter often, so do rifling first to be safe" - usually, even if it takes you a bajillion years to reach communism, as long as you keep your economy even slightly afloat, rifles + cannons will be able to tear through enough AIs to secure you the win.

 

[konata_LS]

@Fish Man
I play at Monarch. As you predicted, my Cannons didn't meet AIs' Rifles until the last two AIs. Towards the end of game, I just sent my Rifles + Grens + Arty to zerg Pacal's Infantries .

 

[Fish Man]

I asked the question with a mind to Immortal, which seems to be kind of a tweener

Oh btw, sorry, I mean Hammy LHC (lonely hearts club), not noble's club.

 

[krikav]

@Fish Man Was it this one...? https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...rm-fractal-nh-ne.612863/page-41#post-15355970 pre-T200 dom win is kind of crazy in iso.

 

[krikav]

@konata_LS
I would say that in iso, you should start planning GPersons already around when you know the layout of the island.
Getting the first 3 out reasonable quickly is most crucial, since you often want an academy and you almost always want 2 scientists to bulb astro.
But you also want to get started with a fourth GPerson during the long isolation phase, so that you are not too far away from getting a fourth guy out, that being the golden age kickstarter.
Noteworthy is that this doesn't have to be a scientists. So when the third city spawns it's GSci, you can start hiring engineers/merchants/artist/whatever in this fourth city, just to get a GPerson out.

That one you keep until some phase where you have alot of large cities and preferably also when you have religious spread and can run caste+pacifism for 8 turns.
If you do that, then you can generate 4-5 additional GPersons during that golden age.

On this current map me personally I went for one big city where I build national epic instead. And that city took care of most of my GPerson needs.
Here is that city (T202)

Spoiler :

Was out of sync and couldn't bulb astro on this map, so second GSci bulbed education instead. GPerson #4 was a merchant who went on a trade mission abroad, likewise the GMerch from economics did.
The #5 GPerson is standing outside ready to run a GA.

Was a few days since I checked this game now, but i think I was sort of ready to start this GA, the idea being that Bismarcks/Montys cities should be out of revolt I think.

If you are only generating 3-4 GPersons during a game, then you are leaving alot of potential on the table. The first 10 Gpersons are quite cheap compared to the yield they return.
In games where you find yourself behind in GPerson generation, turn your attention to that cookie-jar of goodieness around the time you get constitution.

In games where you front-load GPerson usage (Cuir breakout being notable, both by bulbing then by GMerchant upgrading) then that cookie jar of goodiness is pretty much empty by the time you start swringing cuirs. Once the next GPerson cost 1000+ GPP and you don't have much in the bars in some cities already, ignoring their further generation for the rest of the game becomes natural.
So in some sense... cuir breakout are much more do-or-die strategies than they might appear.

 

[Fish Man]

@Fish Man Was it this one...? https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...rm-fractal-nh-ne.612863/page-41#post-15355970 pre-T200 dom win is kind of crazy in iso.

That game was one of my highlights, but I was more talking about a slightly less OP situation, this.

 

[krikav]

That game was one of my highlights, but I was more talking about a slightly less OP situation, this.

OOOOoooOoh, THAT map!
No spoilers please!! Thats one of my all time favourites. It's a map that I revisit almost every year.
I have played that one to optics a few times but I have never met the AIs.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T225 :

Ran a golden age, stayed in organized religion for most of it getting factories/coal plants up.
Conquered Wang mostly with the well promoted upgraded numidians (they are amazing!) and airships, with 3 2-moving artillery they was working quite nicely.
Bribed Pacal on wang and did a few ceasefires to save units.

Accepted capitulation right when it was on offer. Having him as a cushion against Joao etc is good.
Up at industrialisation now and got flight in trade from Wang.

Don't think manhattan have been built yet. The fiends forced me into universial suffrage with UN so no more police state.
Still no cultural threat. Should probably just be a matter of revolting and then mass-whipping tanks, but it's so much micro that I'm not sure I can be bothered.

 

[konata_LS]

@krikav

Thanks for your advice!

Yes, I planned GS generating too late in my game. When I could bulb Astro, I only had one GS available - my second GS only came after a dozen of turns. So I had to slow tech the rest of Astro . I should have planned GS generating much earlier.

Spoiler :

In your game, Joao seems dangerous with his 14 cities. Universal Suffrage from UN is annoying - Police state becomes unavailable, and HR for boost relationship with Pacal/Joao also disappeared.