Long Winded Changes (LWC) Mod

[Lovro]

Originally posted by Plutarck
It appears to me that somehow, early on after a release (or some small time thereafter), some people download the file and rather than getting the new version, they get the old version!

...

1) Caching. Either through browser, proxy, or 'other', the page/file is somehow being cached. For the page itself this makes sense, but not with the file.

It's definitely caching. I've had a problem with it as well when changing the attachment through editing posts.

 

[Puffer Fish]

'So actually I believe that aircraft _should_ be able to sink ships, and they _do_ sink ships in real life, but in Civ3 they _can't_ - which is what I meant there

See, I'm perfectly innocent'

Aren't we all . Yes sorry didn't mean to offend - I'm probably taking it all too literally these days and this is a problem with game really.

Another thing I think they've really missed is the modern day culture - what about cinemas, theme parks, tv etc to keep large populations content. It's not all about temples !

 

[lloigor]

When I load a world map (or any map) into the LWC mod with Civ3CopyTool, I cannot build naval units. I don't know if this applies to other units as well, but I know the Coracle, Galley and other early ships never become buildable. If I play the mod on random maps (without loading a map into the bic file), everything works fine. Why does this happen?

 

[Joben]

Anyone easle getting this or did i screw up the install.
Just got ERP4 and installed it. havent played a game with it yet but going back to my current standard rules game.
i found that in he build que and the garrison list some units have the wrong graphic. (also the loaded unit popup for armys)
My Army leader looks like a rifleman and my workers are marines or machine gunners or something, settlers are some other infan unit.

I figure some of the stuff in the graphics files got out of order?
Or perhaps its in the unit INI files.

As far as i can tell the units apearance on the worldmap is correct.
its the garrison, build menu and loaded units lists that are messed up

(Edit) BTW my game is in the industrial age.

 

[chosen5]

It seems as though once I build an aqueduct in a city; I can no longer build the Forbidden Palace in that city? Is this Civ3 or the mod? Beats me!

 

[Plutarck]

Well I found the problem, and it applys to all improvements which give a defense bonus.

In short, if a city is Size 2 Civ3 will not allow it to build an improvement that has a defense value, alla "Walls".

So Forbidden Palace and National Bank can only be built in Size 2 citys, which was the same as in erp3 but apparently noone noticed it...go figure.


*sigh* Well, I'll be removing the defense bonus from forbidden palace and national bank, but I think I'm just going to leave it on Palace anyway. The effect is just too good.

Yet another example of why hard-coding such things is pure, unadulterated, idiocy, but nothing much I can do about it.

I'll hold off on releasing ERP5 to fix this problem, as well as trying to fix a minor unit icon problem (I swore I had it fixed...), in case any other such bugs manage to popup their ugly little heads.



Joben: Yup, that's one of those "can't get around it" things, because I have to modify the file the default game uses so it will be correct regarding the LWC Mod.


Illoigor: Don't know why that happens, but you might try asking Gramphos about it. Could be a bug in the copytool.


Puffer Fish:

True, but I'm not really sure that happiness isn't already entirely managable. With Shrine, Temple, Colleseum, and Cathedral, that gives 7 happy people. Along with the 1 citizen born content on Diety, that means you could have at least a size 15 (or 16) city without requiring any entertainers, luxury taxes, or luxury resources. And that doesn't count any Marketplace bonuses.

But perhaps as culture-only improvements, but A) it seems the culture victory is easy enough and B) would it really be worth building it?

It could reduce war weariness, though...perhaps that and a little culture, maybe a happy person or 2, and that would make it a worthy improvement.

What tech to put it with, though? And which particular improvement?

 

[ChadQFlannigan]

Good job on ERP4, but whenever I try to build a coracle, I get a Civilization3.exe error. I'll work around it, but I thought you should know.

 

[Joben]

Originally posted by Plutarck

Joben: Yup, that's one of those "can't get around it" things, because I have to modify the file the default game uses so it will be correct regarding the LWC Mod.

hmmm ok.

lost track of all the pics ive switched for this. :crazyeyes
what is the name of the file or files that have those icons in them?
might wanna switch them back and forth when i play diff rules.


nice work btw.
One of the nice little things i like is the ZoC on archer units and other long range attack units.

What does the bombard streangth and rate of fire do on no artilary combat units?........
*thinks about arty* O!! does this meen they once per turn take a free shot at
a unit that attacks them? damn thas cool makes sence that long ranged units should get a volley off before the battle is joined. and i was just gona complain that crossbowmen (and their standard rules predicesor longbowman) had a idioticaly weak defence value.

 

[krenn]

Plutark: Possible bug. Cannot convert entertainers into scientists or taxmen. Tried right and left clicking on the entertainer and nothing happens.

 

[J C Woodman]

Originally posted by krenn
Plutark: Possible bug. Cannot convert entertainers into scientists or taxmen. Tried right and left clicking on the entertainer and nothing happens.

Not sure if this is the whole issue but "Taxman/Banker" and scientist's now have pre-requsites before they can be "switched". Not sure of the top o me head what the pre-req's are... check the read me and change log. Hope this helps. :crazyeyes

 

[J C Woodman]

Great Job!!! Ran a large map game w/irrigation and unit icon mod w/erp-4... Ran darn near perfect! Plutarck I doubt I will ever play regular Civ3 again

The only points of critique are: The National bank Def- bonus thing noted above, not a show stopper but it puzzled me (Big news there!).

Also on the very minor... When ordering a War Caravelle on the city screen the art is for the Bomber. I thought for a second i might be on the verge of a techno-coup... Imagine the astonishment of the Aztecs in this case as a fleet o very irregular "War Caravelle's" Bomb thier landlocked cities to oblivion
Alas no, i got regular war caravelles, No crash though!

And not to beat the horse again but... Resource depletion is quite a prob. I find my game driven always by the search for Iron specifically, and horses to a lesser degree. The other resources seem to be less of a prob. if @ all. This is the only point that seems better w/ the original civ3. BUT... I wonder if this may be a result of 1. Changes to the game via patches 1.08-1.16, or 2. possibly by the addition of more units and "stuff" using iron, ponies ect.?? just guessing. End result- I hate this issue, i am thinking of changing the Depletion ratio down as Plutarck suggested but am not clear on the technical method of how and where? I am not the brightest w/ file changes ect. anybody clear on the detail of how and where?

 

[DanPMN]

I have a question.

When you build the national consitution, forbidden palace etc., I know it counts as a palace but does it really give the same effect as a palace as far as the possibility of a culture flip? I remember reading somewhere else that it doesn't and if this is true, then it seems like you should remove the defense bonus from the palace so that we can move it. An alternative would be to create a new city improvementonly for the city with the palace that cost virtually nothing (I don't know if 0 is possible, but 1 is the same for practical purposes) and had no maintenence. Great Job on the mod, I've been playing it a lot lately and it's great!

 

[Joben]

played some ERP4.

im enclosing a game save with some odd stuff.

First off fruit doesnt seem to work. i am suposed to have some some fruit but it doesnt do anything and its not in my luxery box.
There is a colony on it marked as gettting fruit. there is a road to the colony right to my capitol.

second: if you play it some horses will aprear near one of my citys on the
next turn, all fine and dandy but when i go back to look for them as soon as i can move the screen again they arnt there!
just press next turn and it should do it.
I know they are suposed to jump around a bit but this is too much
is it a fluke or a bug? I didnt get a 'supply exhausted' message

 

[Joben]

ooopsie i took it down for editing to give it a recogizable name and i cant get it back up.
So i put it here:

 

[Quellious]

As Puffer Fish mentioned, this game really lacks the modern time culture. This was partially addressed with Ahenobarb's 'Mass Culture Modpack'. However, this is a very complicated issue, which requires several new techs, improvements, small and big wonders, perhaps new population type (I like the idea of Celebrity that upgrades Entertainer).
Seeing you put a lot of thought and careful planning in your modpack, I'm sure you wouldn't just 'throw in' couple of things to represent modern culture. I suggest that you first complete and release the modpack as it is, and then work on modern culture.

Keep up the great work you're doing!

 

[Selous]

spent the last few days playing lwc4 ... good good stuff .... i kept a log of bugs for u also


"Well I found the problem, and it applys to all improvements which give a defense bonus.

In short, if a city is Size 2 Civ3 will not allow it to build an improvement that has a defense value, alla "Walls".

So Forbidden Palace and National Bank can only be built in Size 2 citys, which was the same as in erp3 but apparently noone noticed it...go figure."

this is NOT the case!! ... i built the forbidden palace in a size 6 city in my recent game ... national constitution in a size 8 city

u cant build to close to your other capital citys! .. mebey u are doing that? but i DEFINATLY built em im my game (got some saves for ya to )

anywho ... some bugs .... well lots of the small pictures for stuff ... i got a bit of a list if u want em ....small fries
the infantry doesnt have a pillage command ... mebey some other units also ... something for all the kiddies to look out for u
the stratigic resorces at the top of the city screen, if u have another one it will begin to clutter and foul the top info

i think this time u have got most of the resorces spot on!! exept horses ... they seem to dissapear alot (and reapear alot ... but dissapear more) ... and it does seem that im not getting messages about dissapearing resorses .... or new ones sometimes ... but with labels on the resorses it very easy to find em

and did u know that resorces that resporn are coming up in other places that they couldnt have been when the map was generated

do u want all the nitty gritty graphical bugs yet? ... there are lots ... but isnt really important yet .... at least i dont think so (balance and coolness are priority now) ... anywho .. great mod! and happy modding

 

[Joben]

Originally posted by Joben
First off fruit doesnt seem to work. i am suposed to have some some fruit but it doesnt do anything and its not in my luxery box.
There is a colony on it marked as gettting fruit. there is a road to the colony right to my capitol.

*whacks forehead* 'fruit' is a bonus reasorce right? Boy is my face red.
I thought of that as soon as i posted the above but i had already shut down my comp.

 

[Lovro]

Originally posted by Joben

*whacks forehead* 'fruit' is a bonus reasorce right? Boy is my face red.
I thought of that as soon as i posted the above but i had already shut down my comp.

While we're at it, I think fruit and oasis should be made a bonus resource after all. I just don't like my trade advisor saying "We have only one source of Oasis, let's trade with friends..." or it popping up in my negotiations.

 

[KALIROB2k2]

Originally posted by Lovro

While we're at it, I think fruit and oasis should be made a bonus resource after all. I just don't like my trade advisor saying "We have only one source of Oasis, let's trade with friends..." or it popping up in my negotiations.

Heh Yep I see that alot to, and the first time I thought I was seeing things. Kinda got funny after a few times So I agree with Lovro that it should be a bonus instead.

 

[Plutarck]

About Oasis/Fruit: They definately _should_ be actual bonus resources, but there's a fine reason I didn't make them that. In the editor try opening up the .bic, setting the 2 resources to Bonus, then have the editor generate a map for you (say no about "save changes?", so it won't interfere with your actual .bic file).

The result is the same problem as with Cotton, in that it becomes a Cotton World! It'll be Oasis and Fruit all over the dag-blame place, which is really obsurd in regards to Oasis.

So for as long as I can't control appearance ratios of Bonus resources, I have to have them as either Strategic or Luxury resources.

It would make sense if Fruit was a luxury (I might have to change it to Bananas, because it goes odd with Grapes...I think I'll do that now for ERP5), but A) I don't really want another luxury for now and B) it still wouldn't fix Oasis.




Now for the main reason of this posting, I thought I'd share a new item in the changelog (not available online yet):

-Horses, Iron: Both have a +10 disappearance ratio, which I'm hoping will just be enough to massage them down to still disappearing and reappearing a reasonable amount of time, without being too stable.

I personally saw the pleasantness of the moving around, as it certainly adds more urgency to things. At one time I had 3 sources of Iron, yet soon after I had only 1 source of iron, which I was already trading away! I believed I ended up cancelling that route, but I'm thinking it may have ticked off the Chinese (whom I was trading it too).

I also managed to tick off the entire world when I made peace with the Greeks, whom I got the entire world to declare war upon - just a middle link in a line of bad decisions, leaving me widely detested. But much like Microsoft and Bill Gate's, I'm left with all my bridges burned but with such a large resource and territory advantage - as well as a reasonable lead in technology (due mostly to unsavory political maneuvering, well-timed devastating invasions leading to the extinction of my greatest rivals/neighbors, and heavy funding to research and development) - that my new enemys (all of whom were my allies to various degrees in past times, turned enemys by my often ruthless opportunism as much as my political gaffes and lack of consideration of world opinion) can do nothing to stop me, and are too afraid (and too weak) to explicitly state their displeasure of me.

They may insult the memory of the War Charioteers and Horsemen that died in the service of "The Peerless Golden Age Army of Egyptian" history (the topic of so many legends, originally formed by but a comparitively few great men who overcame great odds to ensure Egypt's future as the grandest nation ever imagined) with their self-righteous ingratitude, shake their fists as my Peerless Cavalry cut down the infidels who seek the death and enslavement of us all, curse me as I utilize captured and refurbished artillery against the enemys who sought to use them to destroy this peerless land, and constantly nay-say our new Utensils of Defense (tentively refered to as "Tanks" and "Aeroplanes") - but make no two ways about it, when their so-called "Empires" are brought under the Enlightened Rule by The New Golden Age Army, these blasphemers will hang their heads in disgrace for but a few moments before becoming the kind of filthy mindless sycophants who dirty our streets, seek to steal our hard-owned gold, and all the while can speak only good of The Enlightened Rule.

No matter, they will serve us through life (whether they intend to or not) and perhaps one day their children will see the light of truth and join us brothers and sisters of Eternal Egypt.


But I wanted to leave Egypt's warlike past behind, I really did. I may be King, but I'm no despot. And as a sign of this I made a formal rival - the Greeks - my friends, only to have them invade my lands. After the quick destruction of their empire and the dubious peace deal that angered the rest of the world, I formed a full Democracy! Oh how we prospered...for a while. But as reperation for my past snubbing of my allies, and to gain back territory that had turned traitor after the war, I agreed to war the Greeks one final time. 2 completely decisive battles later the Greeks were down to but 1 city, ready to fall, when suddenly riots filled the streets in protest! How could these fools not see wisdom in this decision to rid the world of such a lying traitor?

Clearly, common Egyptians are not capable of ruling such a grand empire, so I have been forced to reinstate the Enlightened Rule and declare that this shall be a new Golden Age for Egypt, which shall see our homeland become united and impenetrable, leading to the fall of the primordial enemies of global welfare!


...good god, I've become a warmongering despot without actually wanting to. Hmm...kind of makes one consider the infamous figures of history in a less deified/putrified light.



Anyway, thus is one major problem with Civ3: It doesn't prompt you about doing something that'll offend another civ, leaving you guessing as to what does and does not violate treatys, leading to all kinds of problems presented by ill-explained game mechanics. *sigh*

But hey, it's actually quite fun. I think I'll go finish that game now *WEG*.