looking for a dotmap request

[johnny_rico]

So I'm playing my second game on monarch. The map is a little weird. I've got 3 AI on my continent but none are very close to me. Looks like Toku will be doing some early warring with Asoka and Cyrus as he is sandwiched between them.

OTOH, I've got tons of real estate to work with. Additionally, I've popped 3 scouts, 1 warrior, sailing, and a bunch of gold. I've never experienced so many goody huts (8, in all, I think). Plus, just popped copper in the fat cross and have produced my first settler after going scout, warrior, worker. There was really no need for immediate tile improvement so I've yet to research agri, AH. Pottery is a priority, being financial with the Vikings and all.

I'm still thinking of a metal casting slingshot simply because I like it's trade value. I believe I can still chop the Oracle if need be.

I'd like to have uploaded my own dotmap as well just to compare but I don't know how to do that.

Appreciate the help.

JR

 

[patagonia]

I mapped out a few early sites.

1, 2 and 3 are all profitable after a single border pop and will pay for themselves very quickly. 4 and 5 make use of other resources and have some overlap with the capital so they'll be able to develop cottages for it while the happy cap is still fairly low. There's room of plenty more cities, but scoping out other sites will be easier once horses and iron have appeared. Over on the east coast, those peaks are a bit awkward, so I wouldn't rush to settle that site before calendar.



(click the image for a larger picture)

One thing worth mentioning:

You're surrounded by an enourmous amount of fog, aren't busting any of it and have next to no military. You're going to get a lot of visitors sometime in the next couple of hundred years so rather than building another worker, whip out a couple of axes to take care of the barbs and focus on settling some of this real estate.

 

[Wodan]

Here's my take on it.

I would go to the bottom left blue first, because of proximity and to get the stone. Stone and floodplains make that an awesome 2nd city. Next, I'd go to the west red site, for the 3rd city. Gold and floodplains. Note that all 3 of these cities work for either a CE or a SE, or a hybrid.

At this point, I would station fogbusters to the south and east. South tundra and ice I would probably never settle. Pink city gets you fur, that's it's main redeeming virtue. The 2 fish is nice and will make it a good city. Orange to the east will be a good commerce city but there's no rush. Again, I wouldn't go for the pink or orange cities just yet.

What I would rush to are the resources. One thing many people overlook at this stage of the game is snagging the goodies.

Survey of happy resources: gold, spices, sugar, fur. All within easy reach.
Health resources: cows, sheep, clams. (Harder but possible to get are banana, pigs, rice, wheat.)
Strategic resources: stone, copper. Others unknown. These two we already get with our capitol and 1st city.

So, happiness resources pretty much fall into your lap. Only 4 but not much you can do to get more. Health we have 3 easy, and 4 more that are harder.

Therefore, our priorities for expansion are to get those 4 extra health resources. This means we want the two green cities, followed by the yellow and upper left blue. Top priority is the right most green. Why? Only source of pigs and banana. Keep an eye on the rice, too... you want at least one of those.

I can't emphasize that enough. You want that pigs and banana city site. If you don't settle it, plan to conquer it soon. You have a ton of territory available for easy expansion. If you get complacent with settling all that, then the AI will get in to that site and entrench, and it'll be a bear taking it later. That's practically the AI's backyard, so if you want it you'll need to rush up there with a settler (or handful of Axes) soon.

Comparison to patagonia's map. City 1 is the same, but suggested 1st instead of 2nd (probably to get the gold for early research). That could go either way. If you want Stonehenge or Pyramids (etc) then definitely go for the stone. Otherwise, you can hardly go wrong going for that gold (with floodplains to allow you to work it early). Patagonia moves the site to the hill. I'd rather put the city in the desert to make it a usable tile. This removes the clam from the city but I plan to have the blue city take it over later in the game, so no harm done.

Patagonia also moves the site for the stone city. I'm not sure why. He's working extra tundra instead of grassland.

Patagonia moves the site for the fur city. Probably to have the extra fur in the fat cross. Frankly, I'd rather have more workable tiles. That city will expand to put the 3rd fur in your culture borders soon enough. And, you'll never work that fur anyway, so putting that ice into the fat cross is fairly useless.

Wodan

 

[Wodan]

One thing worth mentioning:

You're surrounded by an enourmous amount of fog, aren't busting any of it and have next to no military. You're going to get a lot of visitors sometime in the next couple of hundred years so rather than building another worker, whip out a couple of axes to take care of the barbs and focus on settling some of this real estate.

By the way, I agree with this. I would suggest going for Animal Husbandry to see if you have horses anywhere nearby. When you have cows or pigs (etc) in your capitol, AH is a great 1st or 2nd tech because it not only gives you the food resources, it reveals horses and tells you whether to go for chariots or axes. However, in this game, it might be too late for that already... Bronze Working might be a better bet.

Wodan

 

[patagonia]

My inclination to go for the gold city first, was that it'll have clams and floodplains to make it good for whipping and this early in the game, being able to work two gold mines at size 4 and still grow means you'll have the highest GNP for sure. Being a bit further out from the capital, it will be more of a reach initially, but do a better job of clearing fog for you.

Wodan's blue city site definitely makes for a stronger city than the one I'd placed slightly closer to the capital. I think the reason I'd gone for a bit of overlap there was to sandwich a fishing village between it and the coast to the southwest later on.

And I agree totally about the pig/banana site - it might be a bit of a stretch to take early, but you definitely want to control it by the time you've got iron working and calendar.

 

[johnny_rico]

Thanks for the detailed replies. I'm at work so I don't have access but will make decisions tonight.

Our ideas for cities are all about the same. It was really the build order that I'm struggling with. Again, how do you actually make dot maps? Drawing it out on paper and scribbling notes works, but the dot maps are very nice.

The order I think I'm planning to use (according to wodan's map) are the red, green, yellow, and blue cities closest to the capital, in that order. Because:

1. Red - The gold city will work nicely with the metal casting slingshot/forges/happy.
2. Green - Cows, Wheat, and more gold, solid and will grow fast
3. Yellow - While the city only has rice, I'd rather be building towards the AI and fill in later
4. Blue - I'm not sure which one. I don't suppose I'm in any hurry for the stone (unless the HG builds faster with stone).

Regarding some of your comments

Fog busting/no military - Since the copper won't be online for another four turns, maybe 5, I am going to stick with the current worker and then whip axes. Or, build the worker until the copper comes online, whip a quick axe, and continue the worker, grow back to size 3, and whip another axe.

Settling the real estate - definitely a priority, means my cities will probably remain small in size early on (and, behind in tech). I'm hoping for the MC slingshot and then beeline to alphabet. Looking to trade backwards then, IW is tops, I'll probably get AH on my own. I don't have a lot of jungle in the early going, and probably won't be warring as people are too far away. Iron will be important eventually (vikings UU is a maceman) so I feel I have time.

Getting the stone online - again, not a huge priority because I'm not thinking about the pyramids. While nice, I usually only go for them when I'm looking for a SE. Since Ragnar is Financial, I'm planning on going cottage happy and the turf is ripe for it.

snagging the goodies - big fan. Two of the happy resources though, are calendar, which is a ways off. I'm looking for my capitals borders to expand enough to put a camp on one of the fur resources.

Bacon & Bananas - Not sure how quick to go for it. Yes, it is a must, but I'm thinking about moving on that turf when I get my Berserkers online. I guessing the AI will beat me to it. What I'm hoping is that Toku makes life miserable for Asoka and Cyrus, Cyrus already dropped a city right on top of him. I wonder if Cyrus is truly cornered up there.

Colossus - Too bad, but I probably won't build this. Not enough coastal squares worked early. Sure is nice with a financial leader.

AH & cows in my fat cross of the capital - unfortuantely, Ragnar doesn't start out with mining or agriculture. Fishing, which is useless to me and hunting, which was nice for the scout(s). However, I made the wheel, mining, religion, and the oracles priorities. Now, if I would've found a farming resource a little closer, I might have done it. Either way, I probably should have grabbed AH sooner, but I didn't. I've already got Bronze working.

I like the clams, FP, and gold city. It will be a key producer early. Food, hammers, and commerce.

Thanks again, usually the AI helps makes decisions for you by being close by. This game, I feel isolated, but I know I can't screw around for too long.

 

[Wodan]

My inclination to go for the gold city first, was that it'll have clams and floodplains to make it good for whipping and this early in the game, being able to work two gold mines at size 4 and still grow means you'll have the highest GNP for sure. Being a bit further out from the capital, it will be more of a reach initially, but do a better job of clearing fog for you.

Wodan's blue city site definitely makes for a stronger city than the one I'd placed slightly closer to the capital. I think the reason I'd gone for a bit of overlap there was to sandwich a fishing village between it and the coast to the southwest later on.

And I agree totally about the pig/banana site - it might be a bit of a stretch to take early, but you definitely want to control it by the time you've got iron working and calendar.

Agreed with all that. You're right about the gold of course. (Though, johnny_rico keep in mind that you have to go in and make the city work those gold miles... the citizen automation often does a crappy job on weird situations like that.) Anyway as I said it probably comes down to whether you need the stone for a wonder or not.

Thanks for the detailed replies. I'm at work so I don't have access but will make decisions tonight.

Our pleasure. I'm sure patagonia feels the same... glad to help out. I actually find this interesting. Good practice for me, and it's nice to hear what others think too.

Our ideas for cities are all about the same. It was really the build order that I'm struggling with. Again, how do you actually make dot maps? Drawing it out on paper and scribbling notes works, but the dot maps are very nice.

Do a screenshot (with shft-prtscreen) and then go into Microsoft Paint (comes with Windows) and hit Edit/Paste (Ctrl-V). Do whatever drawing you want, and then save as a jpg.

I use Adobe Photoshop instead of Paint because it lets me use layers and move stuff around easier.

The order I think I'm planning to use (according to wodan's map) are the red, green, yellow, and blue cities closest to the capital, in that order. Because:

1. Red - The gold city will work nicely with the metal casting slingshot/forges/happy.
2. Green - Cows, Wheat, and more gold, solid and will grow fast
3. Yellow - While the city only has rice, I'd rather be building towards the AI and fill in later
4. Blue - I'm not sure which one. I don't suppose I'm in any hurry for the stone (unless the HG builds faster with stone).

Aside: If you're doing a SE (specialist economy), I'd skip the yellow one as there isn't any water there. If you're doing a cottages, then this won't matter as you have plenty of grass there. You're Financial so ... looking in my crystal ball ... surely cottages are in your future.

Fog busting/no military - Since the copper won't be online for another four turns, maybe 5, I am going to stick with the current worker and then whip axes. Or, build the worker until the copper comes online, whip a quick axe, and continue the worker, grow back to size 3, and whip another axe.

Seems like a good plan.

Settling the real estate - definitely a priority, means my cities will probably remain small in size early on (and, behind in tech).

Just keep working those 2 gold mines and tech will not be a problem in the slightest.

Getting the stone online - again, not a huge priority because I'm not thinking about the pyramids. While nice, I usually only go for them when I'm looking for a SE. Since Ragnar is Financial, I'm planning on going cottage happy and the turf is ripe for it.

With that much territory, the great wall is not that bad an idea.

snagging the goodies - big fan. Two of the happy resources though, are calendar, which is a ways off. I'm looking for my capitals borders to expand enough to put a camp on one of the fur resources.

That's going to be a long while. I think you'll find you want that happy sooner than that. Keep in mind that there are 2 food down there too so it's not like that's a bad city site.

Bacon & Bananas - Not sure how quick to go for it. Yes, it is a must, but I'm thinking about moving on that turf when I get my Berserkers online. I guessing the AI will beat me to it. What I'm hoping is that Toku makes life miserable for Asoka and Cyrus, Cyrus already dropped a city right on top of him. I wonder if Cyrus is truly cornered up there.

Berserks shouldn't have trouble taking it. Take some cats with you.

Thanks again, usually the AI helps makes decisions for you by being close by. This game, I feel isolated, but I know I can't screw around for too long.

Good luck!

Wodan