Looking for people to join Monarch Trainer (I need training)

[tmarcl]

Alright. Here's the save game I came up with after many many retries. We can do a play order, and if anyone else wants to join in before Saturday, we'll let them.

 

[bed_head7]

Why don't we let Doc start it off with 20, then we'll figure it out from there.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Is this a completely random map? Wouldn't exactly want a 80% water Archipelago with a EXP Civ.
I will pick up the save and post the start; this is one of the most important points to discuss, you would miss a lot if I simply play the first 20.

 

[tmarcl]

Is this a completely random map? Wouldn't exactly want a 80% water Archipelago with a EXP Civ.
I will pick up the save and post the start; this is one of the most important points to discuss, you would miss a lot if I simply play the first 20.

Not completely random. 60% water, Barbs sedentary, Warm, wet, 5 Billion yrs old.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Ok, what’s to look for?

1) Who are our opponents?
(Aztecs, Iroquois, Maya, Inca, Zulu, Romans, Dutch). How do I know that? Is that info useful, btw?
Oh, and you had ‘culturally linked’ on, correct? This is ok here, but buggy otherwise, since you always get the American Civs.
2) Which units to move first, and where?
3) After founding: How should the Governor be set?
4) What to research first?
5) What to build first?

Some general guidelines:

Technical:
• Always zip the save.
• Don’t use spaces in file names, use underscores.
• Please get MapStat. Seedbeast is great as well, but it kills some of the suspense here.
• Anyone not familiar with screenshots/dotmaps/file uploads?

Code of Conduct:
* SGs usually use either LKendter’s, RBCiv or, occasionally, GOTM rules. IMHO some of those restrictions are partially outdated, since the game was improved on many issues during the last patches/c3c. For example, the AI no longer sells Workers ridiculously cheap.
Aggie uses a ruleset I very much agree on, but that one isn’t documented unfortunately.

Things I don’t want to see:
* Purchasing the last/only AI Worker before 2000BC.
* Obvious exploits. Though most of them are so weird (infinite wealth), that most ‘Newbies’ would never utilize it anyway. No purchases for gpt and declaration to get out. No false peace treaties. No Ship Chaining (using a Harbor in between is fine). No ‘Throw –away cities’ to expand borders during war. No RoP rape. No resource denial outside war. No utilization of the Sub bug.
* I have 2 more house rules: Since the AI does not know how to cope with Armies, our Armies are allowed to pillage only one tile per turn (per Army, of course). This is still strong, since it doesn’t cost movement, but not broken.
In c3c, Workers/Settlers/Scouts/Artilleries do not prevent land falls. Unfortunately, nobody told that the AI. Because of that, ‘Worker Walls’ are forbidden.
* Our Reputation may not be broken deliberately. I case of doubt, ask before making an action.
* The Great Library . Below Deity/ a horrible DG start, this wonder is neither needed, nor helpful if you want to improve your playing skills.

Things I want to see:
* Discussion.
* Reliability. Announced skips/swaps/delays are perfectly fine, but I hate those ‘Got it’ posts, and nothing follows.
* Have fun!

 

[eldar]

1) Who are our opponents?
(Aztecs, Iroquois, Maya, Inca, Zulu, Romans, Dutch). How do I know that? Is that info useful, btw?
Oh, and you had ‘culturally linked’ on, correct? This is ok here, but buggy otherwise, since you always get the American Civs.
2) Which units to move first, and where?
3) After founding: How should the Governor be set?
4) What to research first?
5) What to build first?

1) F10 (Space Race) screen, then 'View Space Race'. No scientific Civs. This is a serious problem with the American 'bug' - none of the American Civs are Scientific, which reduces somewhat the chance of getting them. Of course, the Inca are also expansionist, and Inca, Maya, Iroquois, and Aztec are all Agricultural - so expect them all to grow quickly, especially Inca.
2) Scout to mountain 2E, worker to cow, Settler SW to hill. Turns a 1-1-1 square into a 2-1-2 square, and gives better natural defenses to our capital. Still by the river, still next to the Cow.
3) Governor OFF, but set to emphasis production - that way the forest will get picked when we grow during our Settler Factory phase.
4) First research is tricky. I'm inclined to start with Alphabet at min, and hope to pop Pottery from a hut, or buy it (Inca, Maya, Iroquois are all Ag and we'll probably start near them).
5) Build order: Scout, Warrior, Scout, Granary, Worker, (Worker?), Settler.... If we're lucky, we'll pop a Settler from a hut.

Neil.

 

[tmarcl]

The F10 screen, as Eldar said. I honestly never thought about it. I'd say it's useful if you want to know what you're up against in the beginning (if there's a Scientific civ (faster advancing), Militaristic (might be more agressive), etc.

2) Which units to move first, and where?

Usually I just hit 'E' for the scout, and let him go straight for the huts. I've found that exploring on my own I tend to miss them more often than not. For the first one, I'd hit 'E', then for the second, do a circle, looking for a new settling spot.

3) After founding: How should the Governor be set?

I usually turn it off, except for managing citizen mood. I can't stand when the city starts going into disorder at size 4.

4) What to research first?

I've been trying the whole 'Alphabet-Writing-Code of Laws-Philosophy-Republic' route, and then head for Currency. The last couple of games that's helped me get advance rather quickly (between goody huts and trade, I can get most of the other advances without too much trouble).

5) What to build first?

Everything I've read seems to suggest Warrior, Scout, Granary, Worker, then Settlers.

Some general guidelines:
Technical:
• Always zip the save.
• Don’t use spaces in file names, use underscores.
• Please get MapStat. Seedbeast is great as well, but it kills some of the suspense here.
• Anyone not familiar with screenshots/dotmaps/file uploads?

Understood about the zip and file names. I've downloaded MapStat. I don't have a graphics program for editing screen shots. I know Jasc is free to try, but after 30 (I think) days you need to pay for it.

Code of Conduct:
* SGs usually use either LKendter’s, RBCiv or, occasionally, GOTM rules. IMHO some of those restrictions are partially outdated, since the game was improved on many issues during the last patches/c3c. For example, the AI no longer sells Workers ridiculously cheap.
Aggie uses a ruleset I very much agree on, but that one isn’t documented unfortunately.

Which one are we using, then?

Things I don’t want to see:
* Purchasing the last/only AI Worker before 2000BC.
* Obvious exploits. Though most of them are so weird (infinite wealth), that most ‘Newbies’ would never utilize it anyway. No purchases for gpt and declaration to get out. No false peace treaties. No Ship Chaining (using a Harbor in between is fine). No ‘Throw –away cities’ to expand borders during war. No RoP rape. No resource denial outside war. No utilization of the Sub bug.
* I have 2 more house rules: Since the AI does not know how to cope with Armies, our Armies are allowed to pillage only one tile per turn (per Army, of course). This is still strong, since it doesn’t cost movement, but not broken.
In c3c, Workers/Settlers/Scouts/Artilleries do not prevent land falls. Unfortunately, nobody told that the AI. Because of that, ‘Worker Walls’ are forbidden.
* Our Reputation may not be broken deliberately. I case of doubt, ask before making an action.
* The Great Library . Below Deity/ a horrible DG start, this wonder is neither needed, nor helpful if you want to improve your playing skills.

Understood.

Next question, how far apart should our cities be spaced. I usually do cxxxc or the full cxxxxc spacing. I've tried the cxxc spacing, but have been told it's an exploit (which I disagree with, since it's the AI's strategy as well.

 

[Michelangelo]

Hi,

I'm new to SG but would like to try. Is there still an open spot. I've been playing on monarch for a while now, but feel I still could learn some good tactics. I won some, lost more.

M.

 

[eldar]

Usually I just hit 'E' for the scout, and let him go straight for the huts. I've found that exploring on my own I tend to miss them more often than not. For the first one, I'd hit 'E', then for the second, do a circle, looking for a new settling spot.

Setting units fully on auto-move is generally frowned upon in SGs, in case you forget to switch it off before posting the save.

Neil.

 

[geonnyboy]

1) Who are our opponents?
(Aztecs, Iroquois, Maya, Inca, Zulu, Romans, Dutch). How do I know that? Is that info useful, btw?
Oh, and you had ‘culturally linked’ on, correct? This is ok here, but buggy otherwise, since you always get the American Civs.
2) Which units to move first, and where?
3) After founding: How should the Governor be set?
4) What to research first?
5) What to build first?

Would settling on the spot be out of the question? I mean we have two rivers, which boosts defense on three sides. We would get the extra turn of research. Plus the hill would make a nice shield producing mine and the forest in the SW will eventually come within our working border.

2)In my opinion, I think we should settle on the spot, have the worker irrigate the cow and send our scout directly east to the mountain and get a better view of what we got over there.

3)I’ve never really used the Governor option so I’m not sure what we can do.

4)I would go Pottery first since we need a settler factory and I think our first city is a good candidate for that.

5)I think we should build in this order, warrior, scout, prebuild the granary (switch right when Pottery is learned), warrior, settler, worker, settler.

Actually what techs do we start off with? I know masonry for sure. What’s the other tech that we start off with?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

1) Who are our opponents?
(Aztecs, Iroquois, Maya, Inca, Zulu, Romans, Dutch). How do I know that? Is that info useful, btw?

F10, correct. The most important thing here is the complete lack of a REL or SCI Civ; and since Japan is not in the game, all Civs start with Warrior Code, Pottery, Masonry or Alphabet. The 2 most expensive techs are Masonry and Alphabet; it makes no sense for us, to hold back Masonry (or Pottery, if we happen to meet Rome first, the only Civ without it).
All AIs will start BW.

2) Which units to move first, and where?

Scout to hill NW; we're pretty S on the map, and I'd expect the nearest Civ in that direction. Worker to Cow, road/irrigate. I would settle on spot, until our Scout reveals something interesting. That spot is too good to waste a turn.

3) After founding: How should the Governor be set?

Governor to emphasize production; of course, we don't give him the city to manage! Capital settings default for new Civs. Always renegotiate Deals off, Cancel orders for enemy/friendly units off.

4) What to research first?

A hut gives you always the cheapest Tech available that you don't research ATM. We start with Masonry and Pottery, the cheapest Tech now is Ceremonial Burial. We will pick that; thus any hut will give us WC, BW, then The Wheel. Most likely we can trade for WC, so we'll get Monopoly techs from huts. I usually do a minimum run on CB, but since here no Civs starts with it AND will research it first, I say max research on CB; will bring a lot in trades.
Then, I agree, once we have Alphabet, Writing, CoL, Philosophy, Republic if possible.

5) What to build first?

I'd go Scout, Scout, Settler if he finishes with size 3, Warrior, Granary. Then nothing but Settlers, the second city should provide escorts. We have sedentary Barbs, and if any AI Civ moves to close, Warrior.
Oh yea, and of course, never build a Settler, build something else until the turn before the Settler would complete. You cannot get Settlers from huts when you're producing one.

On ruleset: Stick to the rules I posted, and when in doubt, ask.

On city spacing: I much prefer OCP for the first ring cities. That is just a matter of personnal choice. Some players go for a tighter spacing, and build the FP ASAP in a first ring city. I advoce well placed 1st ring cities, specialized towns outside (fishing, resources, strategic locations), and wait with the FP until I can find a great place in the far second/close third ring (enemy capitals are a good choice). Unless you go for early military victories, both methods are equally suitable IMHO.

On dotmaps: Microsoft paint allows for simple dotmaps, and Irfanview is a really good freeware programm for Screenshots and resizing. And, there is a SS tool somewhere on the fora, maybe some lurker could provide a link?

 

[geonnyboy]

Oh cool, we start with Pottery. Groovy.

Can someone give me the link to get MapStat. I'm running on an unaltered (except for the 1.22 patch) version of conquests. (Op, nevermind I found it.)

 

[geonnyboy]

Oh and I think I might need some explanation on the dotmap thingy. I've got the programs to edit pics (heck I can even use Photoshop if I wanted to) and I know how to upload (at least I think I am) I'm just not sure about the dotmaps.

Sorry for posting so quickly.

 

[Bigfoot]

Ok, what’s to look for?

1) Who are our opponents?
(Aztecs, Iroquois, Maya, Inca, Zulu, Romans, Dutch). How do I know that? Is that info useful, btw?
Oh, and you had ‘culturally linked’ on, correct? This is ok here, but buggy otherwise, since you always get the American Civs.
2) Which units to move first, and where?
3) After founding: How should the Governor be set?
4) What to research first?
5) What to build first?

1) Opponents -- check F10 'View Space Race'. I don't always check this though, it seems a little bit like an exploit. Both Inca and Zulu are Exp., and we will have Inca nearby because 'Culturally Linked' is selected. That means we will have to get our scouts out early to have any shot at getting to the goodie huts first.

2) Normally I would move the scout first, but I already know I want to irrigate the cow first, so worker SE, then either scout E->E or S->S to get a mountain top view. It would be nice to find a second food bonus to get a 4 turn settler factory going. I would decide whether or not to move the settler after learning more about the surrounding terrain. From what I see now one tile SW looks good: on the river with cow and BG in range, defensive bonus on hilltop, and it frees up a grassland tile.

3) Set the first city to maximize production (but no gov.), that way new citizens get placed on the forest (we can reassign it to grassland tile and realize some extra shields).

4) Since we are expansionist, I expect we will learn most first-line techs either by popping huts or through trades. IIRC the goodie huts don't give you the tech that you are currently researching, so I would research CB at minimum rate (the least valuable tech). We already have pottery (as does everyone else, save the Romans). Longer term, we can go for Phil. at max. to try for the free tech.

5) First build = scout, and probably second build as well (we need to beat the Incas to those huts), then a warrior. Beyond that it depends on circumstances, but probably a second W and then a granery to get our settler pump going.

BTW, I don't have an internet connection on the PC where the game is installed, so I cannot download Mapstat.

This looks like a promising starting position!

 

[tmarcl]

Hi,

I'm new to SG but would like to try. Is there still an open spot. I've been playing on monarch for a while now, but feel I still could learn some good tactics. I won some, lost more.

M.

There is one slot left open, so you're it. That gives us (again, in alpha order)


bedhead
bigfoot
Doc
geonnyboy
Michaelangelo
tmarcl

Doc is first up. Who's on second?

Eldar Setting units fully on auto-move is generally frowned upon in SGs, in case you forget to switch it off before posting the save.

I don't use auto-move for anyone other than the scouts. The game itself is set to manual move, so don't worry about surprises.

 

[geonnyboy]

If Doc finishes his turn before Sunday, I'll give it a whack.

 

[bed_head7]

Doc, when I said let you play the first twenty, I didn't intend for you to just post the map at 3000 B.C. This is a training game after all, and I assumed correctly that you would do exactly as you have done. I won't reply to every remark so far, but as long as we are expansionist there isn't a whole lot of reason to build warriors super early unless there are barbs around, and with sedentary barbs, there probably won't be. Since we are industrious, we can also skip the early second worker. Then, as Doc said, depending on growth a settler and then granary.

We don't need the hill for extra defense in the capital, the theory being that no one will ever get close to our capital. And it looks like we have a really good set of players, so our capital never will be in danger.

Doc, for our first ring of cities, you mentioned OCP. Is there any real reason to build in a perfect ring in Conquests? City placement is a weakness of mine, and generally I don't stick to a set ring if something like a food bonus or luxury is telling me to settle one farther or one closer to the capital.

Turn order switching off the more and less experienced players would probably work well.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Is there any real reason to build in a perfect ring in Conquests?

No reason for perfect rings. But IMHO cities with liitle overlap are better for the 1st ring (which simply means the closest cities to the capital, not a particular distance).
Point is, with a very good core you don't need the FP so fast, thus you have time to settle/capture the bst city spot for it.

First, the Save

Turn 0: 4000BC

Open preferences. Whether you turn animations off is a matter of taste, but I’d advice against turning off disorder reports and wonder initiation.

Move Scout 1W, 1N, and Worker to Cow.
Great, another Cow after border expansion, lots of BGs, and Gems 3 tiles away. Settle on spot.

Start Scout.
Research to CB at max (14 turns).

Turn 1: 3950BC
Worker starts road, Scout moves N.

Turn 2: 3900BC
Hut gives Warrior Code.

Turn 3: 3850BC
Road finished, CB now in 8. Start Irrigation.

Turn 4: 3800BC
25gp from hut, find another Cow and the coast NE.
IBT:
Scout->Scout

Turn 5: 3750BC
Find green borders (Aztecs). Better than another EXP Civ.

Turn 6: 3700BC
Meet Aztecs. 10g, and miss Masonry.
Teno is pretty close, but in a crappy location. They have Ivory nearby, looks like Monty will build us a wonder.
Irrigation done, move towards second Cow.

Turn 7: 3650BC
Find hut close to Washington, but will not pop it before CB comes in.

Turn 8: 3600BC
Landscaping.
IBT:
Scout->Settler

Turn 9: 3550BC
Find coast pretty near in the W. Cluster of Plains Wheat on the way to Aztecs. They have a couple of Ivory.
IBT:
CB->BC
Border expansion.

Turn 10: 3500BC
Research to 10%.

Turn 11: 3450BC
Hut gives map. Not that bad, since it shows what I thought to be coast W is a saltwater lake.

Turn 12: 3400BC
Landscaping.

Turn 13: 3350BC
Spot red (Roman?) borders to SW.

Turn 14: 3300BC
Must be Rome, since the city has expanded borders.

Turn 15: 3250BC
It is Rome.
Interesting, they know Pottery, not BW. But Aztecs have BW.
Masonry and 27gp to Rome for Alphabet. Masonry to Aztecs for BW and 10gp. Minimum on Writing.
IBT:
Settler->Warrior

Turn 16: 3200BC
Get Mysticism from a hut. Aztecs settle their Ivory.

Turn 17: 3150BC
Rome knows BW. That means, they must have contact with someone else.

Turn 18: 3100BC
Hut gives The Wheel. We have Horses at Washington!
IBT:
Warrior->Granary

Turn 19: 3050BC
Zzzz..

Turn 20: 3000BC
Found New York, Warrior.
Hut gives useless map.

Washington will be a 4 turn Settler Factory without much MM. New York should complete its Warrior, then Worker, then stay on Military (chop the forest for Barracks).
From what is revealed now, red dot is next, then yellow. Blue isn’t that great without any BGs, but pulls in the Gems.

Keep exploring; once Writing comes in, max at CoL, max at Philo. If we don’t find another Lux, I’d strongly consider MoM in Washington.

Don’t worry about the SoZ, I would even gift the Aztecs Mathematics; they’ll need ages in their crappy capital or even more crappy Ivory city, and better they waste the shields for a wonder than for more Settlers. When it’s close to complete, we’ll have enough Horses to pillage all their Ivory, and can capture it.

 

[eldar]

There is one slot left open, so you're it. That gives us (again, in alpha order)


bedhead
bigfoot
Doc
geonnyboy
Michaelangelo
tmarcl

...hello?

Neil.

 

[geonnyboy]

So the big plan right now would be to concentrate on connecting NY to Washington, hooking up our horse, getting out a second worker, and then building a barracks in NY.

Should we be concerned about the wheat plains up north. Three wheats that can be easily chain irrigated could be pretty powerful. Could make a powerful settler farm.

Once the Barracks are created should NY concentrate exclusively on Military units? Since we got Warrior Code we can pump out some nice archers, or would the shields be better used with horsemen?

Also should we prepare for an early attack, or should we build a bit of infrastructure? I usually start off my eary games with rapid expansion with one or two settler farms and two or three defence force factories while the rest of the cities build infrastructure (workers and improvements.) Peaceful-like. Should we focus on this or is blood on our minds?