Looks like Civ 6 is done: Kevin called April "final game update"

darkace77450 said:
RIP my hopes of getting a plague emergency. :cry:
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How I feel like that was the most obvious, because they teased it in the Black Death scenario, however not implemented due to circumstances.
 
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InsidiousMage said:
Ah, the classic "this traumatic event isn't that traumatic to me therefore everyone else is overreacting" response.
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Then maybe they shouldn't have added hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and wildfires, which kill people every year. Maybe they should cut war because people die in war every single day. You can't expect the world to stop spinning because of trauma.
 
Zaarin said:
Then maybe they shouldn't have added hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and wildfires, which kill people every year. Maybe they should cut war because people die in war every single day. You can't expect the world to stop spinning because of trauma.
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Those are, for lack of a better term, "consistent" traumas that are kind of always around. Plagues and pandemics aren't anymore, at least in American and Europe, which is where I imagine most of the player base is from. The last time the US and Europe dealt with a similar situation was a hundred years ago. People aren't used to dealing with situations like the one we are currently in and the number of people who play the game effected by the pandemic is going to out number the people effected by natural disasters and wars*. It shouldn't be surprising that most people probably don't want to deal with what is probably the most traumatic event of their lives in their escapist entertainment.

*And, yes, I am aware of the general hypocrisy of that statement but that's a whole different conversation.
 
Zaarin said:
Then maybe they shouldn't have added hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and wildfires, which kill people every year. Maybe they should cut war because people die in war every single day. You can't expect the world to stop spinning because of trauma.
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Eh, those things tend to be a) fairly localized, b) comparatively brief, and c) far less deadly.

This pandemic is global, has been going on for over a year, and has killed over 500M Americans. The Australian wildfires, by contrast, only killed less than 500 people, and hurricane Katrina killed less than 2000 people.

I'm pretty sure the pandemic has gone past the point of other people's problems and is now something that should have touched nearly everyone. If it hasn't touched you at this point, you are extremely privileged (and to be frank, I am one of the privileged ones who hasn't lost a loved one yet..but I have many friends who have).

I'm just saying, the scale is quite incomparable and I don't think concerns can be dismissed as insensitive. However, I am still of the opinion that Civ VI could prove to be a useful education tool for pandemics, similar to climate change. And, if implemented correctly, could be seen as a way to give people hope and a feeling of agency over the pandemic instead of merely exploiting their pain. So I personally don't see this as an insurmountable barrier to having a pandemic mode anyway.
 
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pokiehl said:
Plus people tend to be interested in media that has a parallel to their experiences. Earlier in the pandemic, books about apocalyptic scenarios experienced a spike in sales, for instance.
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I think it is less so that they offer a parallel, so much as they offer control. A story, regardless of its theme, has a beginning and an end to its narrative. Typically, they have catharsis and resolution. These things are preciously rare in reality, least of all in a disaster scenario such as the one we are experiencing now. Most of the people I know, for example, find Apocalypse mode too random and stressful to play with and enjoy: their stuff gets blown up with little they can do about it, leading to frustration. In the light of this and the frankly abysmal depiction of climate change in Gathering Storm, I would not have high hopes for the developers to deliver a good pandemic mode that is not deliberately abstracted, like zombies.
 
Menocchio said:
I think it is less so that they offer a parallel, so much as they offer control. A story, regardless of its theme, has a beginning and an end to its narrative. Typically, they have catharsis and resolution. These things are preciously rare in reality, least of all in a disaster scenario such as the one we are experiencing now. Most of the people I know, for example, find Apocalypse mode too random and stressful to play with and enjoy: their stuff gets blown up with little they can do about it, leading to frustration. In the light of this and the frankly abysmal depiction of climate change in Gathering Storm, I would not have high hopes for the developers to deliver a good pandemic mode that is not deliberately abstracted, like zombies.
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Regardless of what one believes the psychological motives to be, my point was that a pandemic feature could in fact attract customers.

As an aside to that point, I disagree with your characterization of Gathering Storm and Apocalypse Mode. Climate is the best feature introduced in the game bar none, and I don’t think it or Apocalypse Mode simply throw disaster at the player with no means of mitigating it; yes, even the end-game meteors of Apocalypse Mode. And on that note, I am fully in favor of more RNG elements for the game, even if I somehow had no control over them! There are few things that this game is in dire need of moreso than more late-game shaking up.
 
pokiehl said:
Regardless of what one believes the psychological motives to be, my point was that a pandemic feature could in fact attract customers.

As an aside to that point, I disagree with your characterization of Gathering Storm and Apocalypse Mode. Climate is the best feature introduced in the game bar none, and I don’t think it or Apocalypse Mode simply throw disaster at the player with no means of mitigating it; yes, even the end-game meteors of Apocalypse Mode. And on that note, I am fully in favor of more RNG elements for the game, even if I somehow had no control over them!
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I think climate change is a good gameplay feature to be fair, don't get me wrong there, but I feel its depiction is problematic. But that is also part of a larger problem of Civilisation's depiction of technology, history, and "success" which is too much for one update or even expansion to address. It is also a problem of the simple fact that, while Civilisation deals chiefly with history, its depiction of the future is intentionally vague and speculative, often fantastical - and as we know, climate change is a problem we have yet to solve and therefore cannot really put it in a historical perspective as you can with, say, the impact of 20th century technology on food production. This is also just my opinion, and I agree that by and large, though it has its problems (i.e. heavy coastline flooding beginning in the industrial age) its gameplay function is good, and I enjoy the risk-reward of disasters.

As for Apocalypse mode, I misspoke and was not clear enough: I myself enjoy it perfectly much! However, whenever I enter multiplayer lobbies or set up games with friends (my preferred way of playing Civilisation 6, to clear up any questions of my gameplay bias for what it may be worth), I find most people prefer Apocalypse turned off, and my pleas for it to be on are met by groans from all but one friend. I also enjoy randomness in Civilisation, because as I'm sure you also feel, it adds immensely to the replayability of the game and keeps it fresh, avoiding a terminal game-state where there is objectively one "best" sequence of actions.
 
pokiehl said:
Regardless of what one believes the psychological motives to be, my point was that a pandemic feature could in fact attract customers.

As an aside to that point, I disagree with your characterization of Gathering Storm and Apocalypse Mode. Climate is the best feature introduced in the game bar none, and I don’t think it or Apocalypse Mode simply throw disaster at the player with no means of mitigating it; yes, even the end-game meteors of Apocalypse Mode. And on that note, I am fully in favor of more RNG elements for the game, even if I somehow had no control over them! There are few things that this game is in dire need of moreso than more late-game shaking up.
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I’d like to see a rework of Dramatic Ages that was less all or nothing, that would be a good solution, and the same goes for loyalty
 
Menocchio said:
I think it is less so that they offer a parallel, so much as they offer control. A story, regardless of its theme, has a beginning and an end to its narrative. Typically, they have catharsis and resolution. These things are preciously rare in reality, least of all in a disaster scenario such as the one we are experiencing now. Most of the people I know, for example, find Apocalypse mode too random and stressful to play with and enjoy: their stuff gets blown up with little they can do about it, leading to frustration. In the light of this and the frankly abysmal depiction of climate change in Gathering Storm, I would not have high hopes for the developers to deliver a good pandemic mode that is not deliberately abstracted, like zombies.
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Honestly I was hoping that the zombie game mode would work more like a pandemic mode instead of another mindless group of barbarians. Which is everybody could hopefully work together mitigate the spread of a zombie outbreak, acting as a disease in this instance.
At least that way it wouldn't look like a too realistic pandemic mode.
 
I think the real world gives a good baseline for a strong plague mechanic.

First, it's tied to population density (more likely to spawn in a larger city, and with more districts, especially adjacent districts). Second, it's more likely to develop in a city the more active the city is in trade (number of trade routes running through the city, either as starting point, destination, or trading post on the route). Third, populations develop immunity after a reasonable cool off. Fourth, it can spread through trade routes or increased diplomatic contact. Fifth, it spreads most actively when active, but can spread from an immune civ to one without immunity. Sixth, multiple can spread at once from a civ or civs that have had many to one that had few. Seventh, the negatives stack when when multiple are active. Eighth, greater health infrastructure can limit some affects (mainly housing infrastructure until medical sciences are discovered). Ninth, it can mutate post immunity to recur, likely with lower negatives.

A few more aspects and you've got a robust and interesting system.
 
Alexander's Hetaroi said:
Honestly I was hoping that the zombie game mode would work more like a pandemic mode instead of another mindless group of barbarians. Which is everybody could hopefully work together mitigate the spread of a zombie outbreak, acting as a disease in this instance.
At least that way it wouldn't look like a too realistic pandemic mode.
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I would be surprised if the developers had not originally planned the zombie mode as a pandemic mode, then walked back on the idea and turned it into zombies. They did promise after all that the game modes after Secret Societies would be more historically-based and less fantastical, and they must have known the backlash a zombie mode would bring after the complaints about Apocalypse and especially Secret Societies.
 
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