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Lost Eden development thread

Discussion in 'Alpha Centauri' started by Kilkakon, May 31, 2010.

  1. Kilkakon

    Kilkakon Chieftain

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    Well they just spammed their starting units, which match their priorities. Being aggressive helped them out, but when they got Charmander Warriors the AI preferred them.

    And hehe, you posted just before I was about to make an edit! :p I've managed to come up with a great logo for Betrayed (praise God it's taken long enough) and I've tweaked a few unit prices (and updated the above) as I think that it's a bit too easy to win when Supertanks become available (so +1 cost there) and that Doom Butterflies aren't probably worth as much as a Supertank/Superior (so -1 cost there). And I'm yet to see anybody use a Wartortle (so -2 cost there) as I suppose that 5 attack isn't that impressive for a tier 3 unit. I've also started work on quotes a bit, trying to have some historical ones too. :)

    And I go back to Uni on Tuesday! :( Tomorrow's recording day too so there's less time available for fun projects like this one. Fortunately it's largely done anyhow, but yeah just letting you know.
     
  2. vyeh

    vyeh Chieftain

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    Usually, being aggressive is a detriment as the faction gets caught up in a lot of vendettas and the factions that are erratic get a chance to develop.

    It is great that you are tweaking the unit costs.

    Historical quotes in a fantasy?

    So much less time. :( Besides artwork and the quotes, is there anything else that needs to be done?

    Edit: I just did a sort by reply count (click at the top of the "Replies" column) and this thread is leading. The next highest thread is 1000 way you know you played Alpha Centauri too much! with 216 replies.
     
  3. Kilkakon

    Kilkakon Chieftain

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    Sure. In this case Navius uses his advantage were it counts -- as early as possible when most factions don't have as much anti-Psi stuff that can combat him.

    Well some as the majority of the leaders were originally from Earth anyway, just sent to Eden for whatever reason. I'm happy to discuss though. :)

    Artwork and quotes pretty much wraps it up. There's plenty of both to do, but I'm pretty satisfied at this stage with the game. :)

    :eek: That's amazing! Well I couldn't have done it without you vyeh! :lol:
     
  4. vyeh

    vyeh Chieftain

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    That is interesting. Do you still give the attacker a 3-2 advantage for land psi attacks? And I assume he also has a mobility advantage in getting through the vines.

    That's fine. Given the nature of Lost Eden, maybe a few quotes from Genesis would be in order.:)

    I think it is in very good shape, although I don't think the second 7 factions got as much attention in balancing play tests.

    The best part was the other people who were inspired to start threads.
     
  5. Kilkakon

    Kilkakon Chieftain

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    Yes to both. :)

    Hehe sure I'll try to remember that. I'm also trying to have an even spread of characters saying the quotes rather than it all being me or just a few of them. Voices will be interesting but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

    That's true, although AI runs aren't perfect anyhow. I do remember trying to bring up that Pirates were a bit tough a while back but I don't think that we resolved that. I'll see what I can do about AI runs (I'll put it on my todo list).

    Yeah, it's good to see people coming. :) I still haven't seen hambino post for a while though, I hope that he manages to get his factions all sorted out (that also reminds me, I'll need to think about FLCs as well).
     
  6. Kilkakon

    Kilkakon Chieftain

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    Just an update to say that I have been adjusting to Uni and hope to get back into work soon. Nothing new but hey I'm not dead! That's a bonus. :D Have you had a look at the units/tech tree vyeh at this stage? :)
     
  7. vyeh

    vyeh Chieftain

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    No, I keep meaning to, but I figure until you get your artwork, I can let it slide. What I have been doing is working on an article for SMAC at WikiPedia. We are currently working on the "Gameplay" section in another editor's (that is what members of WikiPedia are called) sandbox (a place to work on an article without other editors intruding). It would be useful if you could read it. Please note the following:

    (1) the length is about right. If you feel that there is something left out that is more important than something there, that is one kind of comment we would like.

    (2) the main reason is to see if the section seems "right" to you. While it is geared to the general reader, we want it to be accurate.

    (3) the link is User:Nolelover/Sandbox.

    (4) you may make comments here or User talk:Nolelover/Sandbox. You don't need to register :), just click on the new section tab, put in a subject/headline and type your message. At the end, please sign it "Kilkakon ~~~~" (the four tildas will put in your IP address and a timestamp).

    Thanks.
     
  8. Kilkakon

    Kilkakon Chieftain

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    Here are my comments: :)
    Spoiler :
    "god game" is a weasel term. It's probably not needed if one mentions the third-person, isometric perspective.

    Grammar: factions recieve

    Wonders in Civ 2 were known as Wonders of the World.

    If this is Diplomatic, then I'm not sure if it this generates the correct idea. This implies a Dominance victory (ala Civ 4).

    Grammar: players establish

    I would use strategies instead of options here.

    Grammar: strategy games that focus

    Perhaps clarify that using energy is a non-standard way to build, as in normally minerals are what do the producing of stuff.

    This probably should be a new paragraph rather than running into the previous one.

    10 or 3?

    Player-to-computer diplomacy in single player probably would make more sense.

    "Solitaire play" is a weasel term. I don't know what it even means! :lol:

    Obviously there are also a lot of places were links should be placed. There's the possibility of mentioning that the diplomacy text is a lot nicer than Civ, although that's only something that I find really awesome. :) I've ignored American spelling which mades me groan but hey Wikipedia is American anyway. :rolleyes:


    As for me, I've been trying to work on the quotes but it's really tough! I've attached what I have done so far, but there's still plenty for me still to do of course.

    I've also finally managed to finish all 14 logos! :D So I've put together this image for a little fun. :D Can you correctly link all 14 factions and logos? :lol:

    Spoiler :


    Understandable. If it's okay with you, I would love for you to do it sometime sooner rather than later, as that way Lost Eden gets some headspace rather than me just working on other things. I have no idea how long it's going to take until my friend decides to start work on them unfortunately. :S

    I'm getting better at my own artwork though! I've been practising at the pencil and paper stuff and then scanning it in. Here's my most recent picture, it's Oblivion:

    Spoiler :
     

    Attached Files:

  9. vyeh

    vyeh Chieftain

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    Thanks. Nolelover, whom I have known as long as I have known you, said the following:

    Okay, here are some comments on the units.

    It looks like you have given colony pods and workers (formers) deep radar and anti-grav struts (to use vanilla SMAC terms). The anti-grav certainly speeds up the early game. Is there a reason why all of your units have deep radar?

    There is a prerequisite?!? What happens at the beginning of the game before the faction has discovered Human1 (especially if blind research is on)? It looks like only colony pods and workers have no prerequisites.

    It might be helpful to pick a more mnemonic shorthand than EcoEng2, e.g. NavExp. Can you build the Work Boat? I thought the fifth slot (*Sea formers in vanilla) doesn't show up.

    You only give this to one faction. Since the AI doesn't home these units, maybe you could give it some armor (even > 4) and change the plan to 2 (Defensive).

    What does air superiority do for a spy? And is their a reason to improve the success and survival rate of the spies by giving them high morale?

    I assume this is Lost Eden spelling. :)

    Doom Butterflies, Gravship, Psi, Psi, 4, 7, 0, Native3, -1, 00001000000000000010000100010[/code][/quote]

    Those Doom Butterflies are nasty - antigrav struts and soporific gas!

    Hatred (empath and trance) and high morale - good thing that this can't be built!

    I don't remember this being supplied to any faction, so I assume it has to come from a pod after the equivalent of Synthetic Fossil Fuel is discovered. Giving it rifle makes it more useful (I think the Unity chopper only has attack one).

    The equivalent of a Unity Foil. I don't recall any faction getting this at the beginning, so it can only happen from a coastal pod.

    I assume these replace the sea lurk and spore launcher.

    These should be the three Battle Ogres. So the first one has the heaviest armor (4) and weakest weapon (1).

    Fungal tower. I am not sure what deep radar does!

    Double the attack factor of a Boy Scout, double the cost and it gets its own icon.

    NavExp. :)

    Deep radar, cloaked, air superiority, deep pressure hull, marine detachment. Pretty mean if it attacks first (cloak/deep pressure hull helps).

    Does "Recon Rover" fit the nomenclature of Lost Eden?

    Interesting. This is the equivalent of synth garrison, except for deep radar, air superiority and +50% attack vs. psi. But no defensive bonus versus psi. Since it has a plan of 2 (defense), does the AI use the attack bonus?

    Nice defensive unit.

    Nice combination of units.

    I can't find "Cannon" in the weapons list.

    Repair bay doesn't work.

    Gravships and the Wartortle has anti-grav struts!

    I guess this goes after Pirate Ships.

    Since the maximum armor is ancient (4), this packs quite a punch.

    I assume you decided that a Foil, Melee, Naked ship didn't make any sense.

    How does amphibious pods work with the gravship chassis.

    Take you time to reply. I'm still integrating your comments into the gameplay section (good point about not mentioning that minerals is the primary way of building).
     
  10. Petek

    Petek Alpha Centaurian Administrator Supporter

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    I've had this ability on my Probe Teams for many years. It allows them to subvert air units.

    Petek
     
  11. Kilkakon

    Kilkakon Chieftain

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    To quote the doors from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: "Glad to be service!"

    This was an attempt to reduce ICS a bit! Of course with the reduced power of the Town Centre it's less attractive anyway.

    Yes. Dad complained about the reduced visibility as he was returning from Civ 4.

    This is my attempt to have different races in the game. Every race is eventually researchable, but every faction starts with one of the first tier techs.

    In particular:
    • Blackband's Pirates - EcoEng, Sqrt1
    • Community of Rakis - Human1
    • CyndaTech Industries - Dark1
    • Darrus' Adventurers - Char1
    • Deadly Assassins - Human1
    • Lukas' Rangers - Human1
    • Mushroom Merchants - Sqrt1
    • Oblivion's Fallen - Dark1
    • Protectors of the Wild - Native1, Inca1
    • Seafoam Collective - Sqrt1
    • The Betrayed - Native1, Inca1
    • The Realm of Light - Char1
    • The True Arena - Char1
    • Vixen's Path - Char1

    The reason for EcoEng2 was because it is needed for the Pirates to build on all water squares.

    Yes the Work Boat is definitely buildable. It does not appear in the Datalinks though!

    > 4 would be too much, the Weeping Idols are only that strong because of their inability to repair. Also considering that it's given out as a freebie, I think that having Standard armour (2) would be ideal. I have changed the plan to 2 as suggested. :)

    Petek has already explained the air superiority (thanks!). They do not have High Morale, they have Clean Reactor.

    It's the English-outside-America spelling. :mischief:

    Yeah those Explorers are good at what they do! :eek:

    Synthetic Fossil Fuels is not in the tech tree. There can only ever be one Random Chopper per game--it comes from the Starship Wreckage.

    Yeah. :)

    Yes, this allows me to have more icons for other things.

    And the others are the strongest weapons for their tier. They are tough but not fixable!

    Good point there! :p

    Yeah, you already know about the icon shortage.

    I've never noticed them being cloaked though. Probably doesn't help that everything has Deep Radar. But yes it's very common to exchange stacks of naval units with an opponent several times! :lol:

    Probably not a great name for it. :mischief: I just like the Recon Rover's name. It would be a steampunk/clockwerk equivalent if I had the graphical space.

    I haven't seen it use the bonus. Do you think that I should make the role Autocalculate?

    Sorry! I have been trying to keep things updated but obviously missed that one. It's replaced the "Laser Gun".

    Oh. What do you think that I should with the A.P.C. then? They don't really have much of a use if the Repair Bay doesn't work, other than getting an extra move out of Charmander Warriors or being in a seabase.

    I'm not sure if I have posted the chassis change:
    Code:
    Gravship,M1,  Skybase,M1,    Antigrav,M1,    Skyfort,M1,   1, 2, 0, 0, 1, 8, Disable,  Deathsphere,M1,    Doomwall,M1,
    Squirtles have 2 moves, Wartortle has 3.

    Yes. :)

    It does, but it was needed as bases with Adv. City Walls full of Weeping Idols don't fall easy!

    Right on the money there. :)

    This allows it to enter a seabase.

    Sure no worries. Did you have a look at the logos, quotes and/or the picture? :)
     
  12. vyeh

    vyeh Chieftain

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    Number 11 logo looks very close to the Gaian's Stepdaughters. Do you want that?

    Could you give me the quotes in another format? I don't have Excel on this laptop. And it is a mess reading it in TextEdit.

    Picture looks nice.

    Once again, thank you very much for your comments. You will see that we have used your feedback to greatly improve the gameplay description.

    What is the latest timetable on the outside artwork?
     
  13. Kilkakon

    Kilkakon Chieftain

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    I have thought about replacing it with a pentagram with a rose in the middle (it is Oblivion's logo). What do you think?

    Reattached as a tab-delimited txt file. :)

    Thanks! I'm practising every week! I've recently drawn another pic of Oblivion in a more epic pose that will be good for his portait (much better than the original one which was way too much -- happy to get rid of it! :D). Can't share much more unless I do more Planetary Datalinks style censorage.

    You're welcome! I'm not really a Wikipedia reader myself but I'm sure that you have all done a great job at enhancing the article. :)

    Unfortunately there is no timetable... I'm dealing with a situation in which the friend said that he would give me some drawings as a reward for passing my exams. They were a few months ago now! :lol: It's a great example of why I shouldn't rely on non-Christians unless I pay them (any present company excluded, you people are great). I've found that relying on other people tends not to work out -- it's been the single point of failure for many a past project. But yeah anyway I do trust my friend to get them done and God only knows when that's going to happen. I'll ask my friend about them when I see him next which will probably be Tuesday (Saturday now) as he's always busy over weekends.

    Note there are a few questions you missed above when I responsed to the unit comments. I assume that you were reading quickly so I don't mind. :)

    There's something that I've discovered when playing that I would like to share (it's my playing experience). The last two times I've played games have been over a long period of time (so saving and loading games). The problem is that I got bored around turn 200-225. I can't say whether this is because of the game's balance, or that the tech tree was finished for quite a while, or perhaps because the gameplay was so fragmented, or SMAC or just me. I think that it's worth exploring though -- can you think of what could cause this sort of reaction?
     

    Attached Files:

  14. vyeh

    vyeh Chieftain

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    Kilkakon;
    Sorry I am on vacation for a month with no internet access.
     
  15. Kilkakon

    Kilkakon Chieftain

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    That's okay! I hope that you have a great time. :D
     
  16. Kilkakon

    Kilkakon Chieftain

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    My friend has finally done some sketches for this! Half of them are ideal, half of them aren't so good, but hey it's progress. I'll let you people know how it all goes. :)
     
  17. Kilkakon

    Kilkakon Chieftain

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    Sorry if triple posting's a problem; I suppose that project threads are somewhat prone to that. :)

    I said I would post updates and so now I will:

    • PSI Gates, entitled Gateways, have been added to Lost Eden to enhance late game combat. They are available from Boundless Knowledge, cost 20 rows, and 0 maintenance.
    • I've given up on the A.P.C. and removed it.
    • Recon Rovers are now known as Rifleboys to keep in with that big fancy word vyeh used.
    • Elite Guard have been reworked. They are now 1/2/2 and are called Boy Guard. I'm not really a big fan of the name though.
    • Squirtles now move 3 (from 2).
    • Spies have been reworked so that they function the same as the Squirtle Spy but with 3 moves (from 2). The Squirtle Spy has been removed.
    • Wartortles have been renamed to Ninja Squirtles. This allows me to use their graphic slot for Squirtle Sympathisers and Boy Scouts. I've renamed the Wartortle tech as well to suit.
    • Armoured Pods have been added. 2 defence and +50% PSI defence. Cost 6 rows. Available with Squirtle Warrior Code.
    • Supply Crawlers no longer have +50% PSI attack. Now they have +50% defence.
    • I've slowly been changing the HUD to a new style. It's slow as it hasn't been a big priority, but it's getting there.
    • My friend sketched Saig, Rakash, Darrus and the 3 charmander units. Of the ones he drew, I have used Darrus and 2 of the charmanders (normal and superior). These have been coloured and added to the game. The Saig pic was good quality although a bit too risqué for my liking so I'm using a cropped version for the moment. God willing I'll be able to convince him to redraw the ones that didn't meet the grade at some point in the future or redo them myself.
    • I've made a Squirtle graphic and added it to the game. I'm half way through a Sympathiser although I may change tack and do a Boy Scout instead as that would be more generic. I'm so looking forward to that restriction being lifted hey. :p
    • Red Weed (Monsoon Jungle) is now known as Strawberry Fields as I have a strawberry graphic already and fungus wasn't fooling anybody :p. Uranium Flats is now known as Gemstone Bounty, with recoloured Uranium to match. A few other landmarks have been renamed too so there's no more Alpha Centuari names.

    I think that's it! *whew*. Hopefully vyeh will be back soon to digest all of this, but I hope that anybody else who has been following is satisfied. :D As for what's left to do, there's still more art, and then the quotes and all that. I have used my friend's slowness as an excuse to avoid working on this but with the ones I have got now I'm satisfied to work as much as I can now. No more excuses. :D

    ...except one that is. I do have two assignments due this Friday and one due the next, and then 2 weels of exams. Big fun! But after that, I'm on holidays for like months so that'll be great.

    I'll PM Petek when I feel the complusion to show the new units (probably when there's something epic to show) to make sure that they are A-OK first; need to make sure that things stay within CFC guidelines. :)
     
  18. vyeh

    vyeh Chieftain

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    I'm back. I will try to look at this starting in 12 hours and give you a preliminary digest by 24 hours. I have a lot of errands to run. (Don't worry about the triple post.)
     
  19. Kilkakon

    Kilkakon Chieftain

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    Welcome back! :D I hope that you had a good time while you were away.

    It is very understandable that you have a lot to do after you have been away for a month, so don't rush. :)
     
  20. vyeh

    vyeh Chieftain

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    It helps if there is someone responding.

    I think this is a good addition and I like the name.

    Too bad, I like the land transport.

    :confused:

    I don't like the name either. How about just Guard?

    I like that. Are they impeded by the fungus equivalent or the forest equivalent?

    Same question as just above.

    Okay.

    I assume attack and movement is 1.

    I assume you meant +50% PSI defense. The change looks good since they can't be built.

    Heads up display? Where do you change it?


    How can it be too risqué when all the units and leaders have no clothing?

    What restriction? The one on the number of icons?

    Good.

    How about my vacation as an excuse? As a result of my almost internet free vacation, I've joined a gym to try to keep improving on the fitness. I will make this thread a priority because of the friendship we have (and I will monitor my own forum and I would like to continue to work on the wikipedia article but I am not sure how much time I will want to devote beyond that).

    That fits into my schedule. I want to make a great effort in the gym (and lose 10 pounds) and take care of a particular matter.

    Good idea.

    More in the nature of a retreat from life and the internet. I did make a lot of friends. I am in better shape and my head is clearer.

    A lot to do, so please don't feel the need to rush your reply!:)

    Post 300!
     

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