Lost Eden development thread

[Kilkakon]

Human? Gender?

Buster's Uncle was pretty close: Human, Male, just James Bond is a bit old. I need someone that's a kid. Photo, drawing, doesn't matter as long as it's something I can trace to make my own image.

Thanks for the tip anyway Buster's Uncle.

I think we don't want any faction except the Mushroom Merchants going beyond +2 ECONOMY.

Okay, civics changed to:

(Initative)
Trade, ResFocs, -GROWTH, -INDUSTRY, +ECONOMY

(Goal)
Perfect Society, Create, +GROWTH, +RESEARCH, +PLANET, --MORALE

Wealth is unchanged.

 

[vyeh]

I need someone that's a kid. Photo, drawing, doesn't matter as long as it's something I can trace to make my own image.

Spy Kids?

 

[Kilkakon]

Oops no. I jumped the gun a bit when I said "photo" because in hindsight whatever I use needs to match the Pokemon leaders I have already. So anything that's human that would match that sort of bill. Clothes don't matter as I can change those.

Good try though.

 

[vyeh]

Can you post the current pictures of the Pokeman leaders?

 

[Kilkakon]

Oop okay, let me see... (quickly whips up a preview )

 

[vyeh]

So maybe there is an image of a Pokemon kid at a keyboard. (I think your spy leader should be a hacker type rather than an 007 type.)

 

[Kilkakon]

To be honest, I am not sure that computers exist in this world. It's pretty unclear... we have people with swords and roses attacking hovertanks. The facilities lean towards a more ancient era, but some of the tech is a break from that. Really this game's world is meant to be an "eden" of sorts, unperverted and unblemished by sin (hence the mass nudity ). Of course Oblivion is the odd one out there, but that's probably way everybody ends up hating him and wanting to kill him off. But yeah, there's no real computer dominance, that's for sure.

I have had a brainwave for a good starting pic though: Astro boy! Here's what I think would be a good start: http://img4.immage.de/edit_02122d85954astroboy.jpg. Just remove/change the clothes, remove the rocket shoes etc.

I just finished a Nidoqueen. She's pretty cool, I'll try to think of a faction she is able to lead shortly. Going to be interesting to make a censored version though.

EDIT: Idea to make naval combat more interesting: A Pirate Ship: 4/1/4, Marine Detachment ability?

 

[vyeh]

To be honest, I am not sure that computers exist in this world. It's pretty unclear... we have people with swords and roses attacking hovertanks. The facilities lean towards a more ancient era, but some of the tech is a break from that. Really this game's world is meant to be an "eden" of sorts, unperverted and unblemished by sin (hence the mass nudity ). Of course Oblivion is the odd one out there, but that's probably way everybody ends up hating him and wanting to kill him off. But yeah, there's no real computer dominance, that's for sure.

Then how about the ancient equivalent of computers (manuscript, wizard/herbalist/shaman, bard/storyteller)?

I have had a brainwave for a good starting pic though: Astro boy! Here's what I think would be a good start: http://img4.immage.de/edit_02122d85954astroboy.jpg. Just remove/change the clothes, remove the rocket shoes etc.

How do you get the spy part conveyed?

I just finished a Nidoqueen. She's pretty cool, I'll try to think of a faction she is able to lead shortly. Going to be interesting to make a censored version though.

How about creating an Amazon like faction to complement the Adventurers? (There the males stay home!)

EDIT: Idea to make naval combat more interesting: A Pirate Ship: 4/1/4, Marine Detachment ability?

Be mean and give it sub ability. Then the AI will sneak up on players!

 

[Kilkakon]

Then how about the ancient equivalent of computers (manuscript, wizard/herbalist/shaman, bard/storyteller)?

To explain Hovertanks, I am not sure. Really I am not too attached to it being a hovertank, I could make it a speeder with anti-grav struts to give it 3 moves. Combustion doesn't need to mean computers, so speeders are fine. (although the laser gun on the hovertank will need explaining. ) Cruisers and foils are still plausible.

All other archetypes are just warriors of various strengths using various weaponry (starting at swords, through rifle, ending with gatling gun)/martial arts. Roses are very fantasy of course.

Commlinks/phone calls are the only thing that isn't really clear without resorting to magic, which I don't want to do if I can get away with it.

How do you get the spy part conveyed?

I was thinking a black bandana and black fingerless gloves.

How about creating an Amazon like faction to complement the Adventurers? (There the males stay home!)

Hah! That would be pretty cool yeah. The only problem is that they will still have male units due to icon shortage. I mean, if they start with Charmander Explorers like the Adventurers, they would be male ones, which would be a bit oops.

Be mean and give it sub ability. Then the AI will sneak up on players!

Done.

 

[vyeh]

To explain Hovertanks, I am not sure. Really I am not too attached to it being a hovertank, I could make it a speeder with anti-grav struts to give it 3 moves. Combustion doesn't need to mean computers, so speeders are fine. (although the laser gun on the hovertank will need explaining. ) Cruisers and foils are still plausible.

I am not sure why hovertanks implies computers.

All other archetypes are just warriors of various strengths using various weaponry (starting at swords, through rifle, ending with gatling gun)/martial arts. Roses are very fantasy of course.

I'm confused. You refer to "other archetypes." What is the archetype under discussion?

Commlinks/phone calls are the only thing that isn't really clear without resorting to magic, which I don't want to do if I can get away with it.

Smoke signals, telegraph, pony express?

I was thinking a black bandana and black fingerless gloves.

That makes them rogues.

Hah! That would be pretty cool yeah. The only problem is that they will still have male units due to icon shortage. I mean, if they start with Charmander Explorers like the Adventurers, they would be male ones, which would be a bit oops.

Can't we make the icons androgynous?

Done.

That will be fun.

 

[Kilkakon]

I am not sure why hovertanks implies computers.

Well I was thinking that something as advanced as a hovertank would not be controllable/discoverable without computer support. If you know what I mean... let's say that a Fission reactor is involved. I wouldn't want to be the one trying to discover nuclear technology without computers. Or try to control it without computer support, having recoiless guns so the tank doesn't flip over, etc.

I'm confused. You refer to "other archetypes." What is the archetype under discussion?

I am sorry, I was using a Yugioh term that probably didn't translate properly. What I mean by "archetype" is one type of unit. We currently have five: Human, Rose, Charmander, Squirtle and Native. Other units still exist but they have no clear technology path like the others do.

In this case, I was saying that humans are using pretty hefty technology in comparison to, say Roses and Natives, whom never use guns. Squirtles use guns though (their tier 2 and 3 units do). Charmander's first tier unit uses a Rifle.

Smoke signals, telegraph, pony express?

"Pony express" sounds pretty cool. That would mean that the leaders get on horsies/speeders and actually visit, which is probably the best way to still have the leader in diplomacy make sense. I'll fix up the diplomacy text involving commlinks today then.

That makes them rogues.

Oh dear. Well spies are sort of like Rogues... I was thinking a full black outfit for the version you would get, if that helps.

Secondarily, I have moved Spies to the Mercenaries technology now, so non-Human users aren't punished for not having spies.

Can't we make the icons androgynous?

You mean hermaphrodite? That's just wrong.

That will be fun.

Good to hear.

 

[vyeh]

Well I was thinking that something as advanced as a hovertank would not be controllable/discoverable without computer support. If you know what I mean... let's say that a Fission reactor is involved. I wouldn't want to be the one trying to discover nuclear technology without computers. Or try to control it without computer support, having recoiless guns so the tank doesn't flip over, etc.

Idiot savants?

In this case, I was saying that humans are using pretty hefty technology in comparison to, say Roses and Natives, whom never use guns. Squirtles use guns though (their tier 2 and 3 units do). Charmander's first tier unit uses a Rifle.

Hefty technology, but no computers. hmm ...

"Pony express" sounds pretty cool. That would mean that the leaders get on horsies/speeders and actually visit, which is probably the best way to still have the leader in diplomacy make sense. I'll fix up the diplomacy text involving commlinks today then.

Good.

Oh dear. Well spies are sort of like Rogues... I was thinking a full black outfit for the version you would get, if that helps.

How about a sypglass?

Oh, right. No clothes.

 

[Kilkakon]

Idiot savants?

I am not sure that is ethical. CyndaTech wouldn't mind doing that, after all, those people are genetically inferior. Realm definitely wouldn't.

It's one of those cases where doing an ancient/mystic mod in Alpha Centuari doesn't really work out perfectly due to the icon problem and not a lot of anciently looking models. My "Ballista" is a speeder with a galting gun. My "Pirate Ship" is a foil.

But yeah, hovertanks with laser guns, I don't know.

Hefty technology, but no computers. hmm ...

By hefty, I mean they have speeders and hovertanks and lasers (may have to change the lasers) in comparison to just guys on foot with the occasional gun.

How about a sypglass?

That's more Sherlock Holmes than spy. I'm not sure to be honest.

Maybe a pistol? Maybe a sign hanging from his neck saying "Totally not a spy"?

Oh, right. No clothes.

Yeah. I have not decided whether I will censor the ground units or not, after all they are pretty tiny.


EDIT: Just done the graphics for a Hitmontop faction. I am thinking that they should be similar to Sparta (although Sparta is weak according to Senethro). Still not sure about the Nidoqueen though, if we go for an Adventurer clone then it needs to be different enough to work, of course the lack of female units doesn't help either.

 

[vyeh]

That's more Sherlock Holmes than spy. I'm not sure to be honest.

Not magnifying glass, but telescope. (Or you could use binoculars.)

EDIT: Just done the graphics for a Hitmontop faction. I am thinking that they should be similar to Sparta (although Sparta is weak according to Senethro). Still not sure about the Nidoqueen though, if we go for an Adventurer clone then it needs to be different enough to work, of course the lack of female units doesn't help either.

What is your list of icons? Maybe two of them could be consolidated to give you another icon slot.

 

[Kilkakon]

Binoculars could work yeah. I'll probably go with that, I'll let you know when I get to making him.

Here are the icons in units.pcx:
0 - Charmander (used by Charmander, Charmander Warrior and Charmander Explorer)
1 - Vine Forest
2 - Squirtle (used by Squirtle and Squirtle Sympathiser (which is meant to be a human normally))
3 - Carnivine
4 - Weeping Idol
5 - Wartortle
6 - Regenerating Rose, Demonic Rose, Rose of Destruction
7 - Char. Superior
8 - Char. Defender

If I had about double the amount of icons I have now, then I could make everything have its own icon (for the units that need them, e.g. non-vehicle human units, ballista, and so on).

 

[vyeh]

Binoculars could work yeah. I'll probably go with that, I'll let you know when I get to making him.

Looking forward to it.

Here are the icons in units.pcx:
0 - Charmander (used by Charmander, Charmander Warrior and Charmander Explorer)
1 - Vine Forest
2 - Squirtle (used by Squirtle and Squirtle Sympathiser (which is meant to be a human normally))
3 - Carnivine
4 - Weeping Idol
5 - Wartortle
6 - Regenerating Rose, Demonic Rose, Rose of Destruction
7 - Char. Superior
8 - Char. Defender

If I had about double the amount of icons I have now, then I could make everything have its own icon (for the units that need them, e.g. non-vehicle human units, ballista, and so on).

There are only 9 icons? If I recalled, Vine Forest = Fungal Tower, Carnivine = Mindworm, Weeping Idol = Battle Ogre. Are there any other replacements?

 

[Kilkakon]

There are only 9 icons? If I recalled, Vine Forest = Fungal Tower, Carnivine = Mindworm, Weeping Idol = Battle Ogre. Are there any other replacements?

Yes. Demonic Rose = Battle Ogre MK II, Rose of Destruction = Battle Ogre MK III. Spore Launcher is now just a clone of Carnivine. Sealurks are now foils with Psi attack and defence (they don't turn into Isles ). These are the replacements that allowed the most icons.

So yeah, if you count the MK 2 and 3 Battle Ogres, there are 11 icons (MK 2 and MK 3 are both on row 6, just further along on the column).

 

[vyeh]

What is Charmander Superior and Charmander Defender?

 

[Kilkakon]

6/2/2, drop and 1/3/1 respectively.

EDIT: I tried having a game with my friend today, local LAN, and it was crashing pretty hard. For some reason it doesn't like Toad. We tried out the unofficial patch thing but yeah, it would always crash his Vista machine (typical ) every time. It seems to work with the original seven factions though. :S

 

[vyeh]

Has your friend tried playing the Toad in single player (no LAN) mode?