LotR14 -- RAW (and uncut?)

[Reagan]

350 – MM Cuzco to shave a turn off its MDI build. Everything else is cool (as should be expected in a turn inherited from the king of micromanagement).

360 – Mono comes in and we start researching Chivalry at a -12gpt deficit. Teno: MDI->MDI. Our pults hit 75% of the time at Ur, but there are still uninjured spears in the city. The army attacks twice but is now yellow lined. T-hawk’s right – we’ll need backups to take the city. Stomp a legion escorting a settler and get a promotion and two more slaves. Portugal drops a sword next to Moscow. There’s no local support, so our walled pike will have to defend next turn. MM Cuzco back to five surplus food. Swap Lagash to rax and Sala to settler.

370 – Cuzco: MDI->MDI. Edrine: MDI->MDI. The Portuguese sword fortifies. Egypt drops a settler on us from out of nowhere and founds Memphis right next to one of our MDIs. It’s only Cleo’s second city. I fail to extort any cash from her, so we declare. Our MDI “unfounds” Memphis. We also knock off a Greek archer. Swap Tlat to a rax. Move Edrine’s spare spear to Teo and fire the scientist.

380 – Successfully defend in the IT, with a promotion. Teno: MDI->MDI. Istanbul: MDI->MDI. Athens: horse->horse. Troops finally arrive at Ur.

390 – SoZ produces an ancient cav. Amsterdam: walls->rax. Knock off four spears from Ur. It should fall next turn. Whack a Chinese settler pair.

400 – Teno: MDI->pike (to rebuild the food box). Lagash: rax->pike. Ur, 13gp, and a slave are now ours. Sumeria is no more. Our armies move next to Beijing and knock off two spears after arriving.

410 – One successful defense in the IT. Athens: horse->MDI. Sumer: pult-pult. Edrine: MDI->MDI. Tiwan: pike->pike. Teo: MDI->pike. Kill two more spears at Beijing, but redline the sword army and have to pull it back into friendly territory for protection. Pyongyang is ours after two successful ancient cav strikes. Kill a Bab settler pair.

420 – A sneaky Portuguese sword steals two workers in the IT and Spain lands an archer next to Tlat. Teno: pike->starvation MDI. Tlat: rax->pike. Cuzco: pike->MDI. Istanbul: MDI->MDI. The Spanish archer is trampled by our horse. Beijing is now ours. We meet India, fail to extort his 4gp, then declare (and kill a settler pair in the process). Meet the Celts, fail to extort any gold, then declare (and kill a settler pair in the process). See a pattern here?

430 – Sparta is ours without casualties. Greece departs this world. Meet the Vikes, sell them CoL for 15gp, then declare. They are out of reach this turn. Kill a German settler pair. Knock off three spears from Seoul. It should fall next turn. Athens reaches the magical 15spt level and will swap to Templar next turn.

440 – Chivalry comes in, Engineering begun at +1gpt in eight turns. Successful defense in the IT earns a promotion. We gain another ancient cav. Teno: MDI->knight (with no more starvation). Moscow: pike->temple. All MDI production swapped to knights. Lose a MDI to a French settler pair. Kill one of two potential pillager spears near Salaman. Ugh. Lose an ancient cav against a Mongol pillager. Seoul is captured with only one ancient cav lost. Kill one spear in Madrid and move other units into position for next turn. Kill a settler pair. Lux tax can drop to 10% (with the addition of two inconsequential scientists) after we add Seoul’s furs.

450 – Interestingly, the Egyptian spear decides not to pillage. The settler pairs by our workers do U-turns. Kill a settler pair and a stray sword and spear. Madrid is ours with no casualties and is set on a starvation diet. Some units move into barracks-equipped cities for healing.

I left you some units with movement on our eastern front. We’re close to forming a nice SoD up there. A knight army would be nice. Have fun!

 

[Reagan]

Here's a pic:

 

[Speaker]

Got it. Will play when I wake up tomorrow. Something for the team to chew on before then: when do we stop capturing and start razing? It seems to me that that time is near, to avoid spreading ourselves too thin with mostly-corrupt towns. Thoughts?

 

[Arathorn]

when do we stop capturing and start razing?

Ummm...never? Our relative culture is pretty good. Those outlying towns provide unit support, more potential armies, and population for workers/settlers/specialists as needed. The sooner we can get our productive cities OFF the frontlines, the happier I'll be. Having a pike behind walls defend against a sword is good odds for us, but I'd rather the penalty for losing be a corrupt 1/1 city rather than a core producer.

I see no need to raze rather than capture. Yes, we're fighting on two fronts, but I'd rather fight on two fronts with our cities and our culture around rather than two wide open fronts where everybody can use every road and we need to dedicate units to watching open space. Might as well get some benefit from those areas....

My $.02,
Arathorn

 

[Reagan]

I'm in the same camp as Arathorn on this one. We certainly won't be in pure-raze mode anytime soon. We need to get our mobile units up and running first, which is a process that just started. There are a lot of AI settler pairs drifting around just looking for a home. We'll be able to shut down research in a few turns and will have enough cash available to rush defenders in outlying towns. As Arathorn noted, a walled city defended by a pike will hold just fine against swords.

Unless and until we get enough troops to cover all the open ground that a razing strategy would produce, we're going to be missing out on the free unit support and the cushion for our core that we are currently enjoying from a capture-and-hold strategy. Take a look at the space just east of Tiwanaku, for example. There have been three cities there and I have killed at least three other settler pairs there. That's right next to one of our first-ring cities. We really need to continue to push the fronts out before we start razing.

 

[T-hawk]

Hmm.. can we build or capture the Temple of Artemis to pull all the captured ground within our borders right away? groucho

 

[Speaker]

IT- First thing I want to do here is check in with each of our known enemies and see how many cities they have:

Rome: Capital only
Spain: Capital Only
Egypt: Capital Only
Carthage: Capital Only
Germany: Capital Only
France: Capital Only
Persia: Capital Only
China: Capital Only

Babylon: Capital + 1
Arabia: Capital + 1
Mongolia: Capital + 1
Portugal: Capital + 1

America: Capital + 3

Would love to knock off several of those capital onlies on this turn, especially Rome and China, who are right next to our southern border. I would also love to push down to Babylon, who has built the Temple of Artemis.

Make one or two micromanagement changes and shuffle a few troops but everything looks great!

*enter*

Moscow pike holds off Portugese sword. Redline ACav is killed by a spear.

460AD (1): Advance both southern armies on Rome. Eliminating them will rid us of the strongest unit out there. Whack the Legion/Settler pair as well. Mostly healing troops this turn and consolidating.

470AD (2): Two armies combine to kill two legions and Rome is dead.

480AD (3): First knights come off the line and we start on more. Add two workers to get Istanbul up to the magic 18spt line for a Knight every 4 turns. Stacks almost ready to go in the south and east.

490AD (4): Knights do not impress in their first action, losing to a 3/5 unfortified Swordsman on level ground. Southern MDI Army moves to disconnect Arabian Iron. Sword Army kills a spearman in Shanghai.

500AD (5): Engineering is complete and I shut off research for now. Capture Leipzig and Germany is dead.. Pillage Arabian Iron and advance the army on Medina. Kill both Spears in Shanghai. Advance on Barcelona.

IT- Of all the targets, Mongols sword attacks our worker stack recently brought in to build a road. on my part leaving it alone.

Zulus make contact and offer Literature for Monarchy. I make him throw in 80 gold with Lit and give him Monotheism instead. He has 4 cities in addition to his Capital. War is declared.

510AD (6): China has removed its archer, leaving Shanghai completely undefended. I capture it and China is dead. Capture Medina, killing two spears with the MDI army. Capture Barcelona and Spain is dead.

520AD (7): Meet the Hittites and declare war. Troops advance on new targets.

530AD (8): Capture Mecca and Arabia is dead. Capture Hattusas from the Zulu.

540AD (9): MGL is formed in an attack on Persepolis, but it does not fall yet.

550AD (10): Kill the two redlined horses defendingd Persepolis and Persia is dead. Kill two Babylonian units, but a spear still defends. Remove the leader from the front and move him back next to Ur.

Conclusion- The leader is next to Ur and I would recommend building an army in Istanbul and adding the Knight which will be completed next turn. Cuzco and Athens may be able to get to 18 spt with some worker attention. There are a few troops in Tiwanaku which I was keeping around to kill pillaging spearmen. Troops in Hattusas are now healed, so you can choose your target this turn. 6 dead rivals on my turn and an ever increasing amount of territory. The troops are ready to take Babylon and with it, the Temple of Artemis. I doubt this one will make it back to me. Thanks for a fun game Arathorn.

 

[Arathorn]

It's been a while, so here's a current roster:

Reagan
Speaker
Kylerean <-- UP NOW
Arathorn <-- on deck
T-hawk

Wow, Speaker! Six civs eliminated? That's gotta be close to an SG record. Granted, the set-up was ideal for it, but... wow! Even 31 regeant foes aren't enough to provide a significant challenge..... Too bad.

BTW, as part of my preps for some comments in your Reminiscing thread, Speaker, I've been looking for some of my favorite turns and old games. I'm mid-rereading the original AW game (LotR2) and it's amazing how far we've come in AW since then! Great fun rereading, but I'm not paying much attention to build up my SG Reflections....

Good skill Kylerean,
Arathorn

 

[Speaker]

I didn't really think of it that way. Now that you mention it, 6 Civs is a lot. That would only leave 1 rival in any "Standard" game. It definitely could have been higher had I extended more and taken more chances. I didn't really attack for 3 of my 10 turns and the only city I attacked with less force than I really should have was Babylon, which was only a "problem" because it was defended by a pike. I think there are something like 15-17 rivals left, so I wouldn't be surprised if my "record" falls in the next turn or two as our army continues to grow.

Re-reading old games is a lot of fun. I find myself doing it at 2 in the morning more often than I should, but there are just so many great games out there so beautifully recorded.

 

[Kylearan]

-=> got it. <=-

 

[Kylearan]

F8 shows 15 rivals are still alive, but we have contact only with 12, so three are still missing. I'm too lazy to find out who that is, though.
I love the sight of Leptis Magna: It has been founded near no less than three ruins!

On the first interturn we get the message that the Zulus have destroyed the Japanese...hey Shaka, you stole a kill from us!

Captured Leptis Magna, New York and Babylon in 560AD, and we now own the Temple of Artemis.
Captued Ugarit and destroyed the Hitties in 570AD.
Karakorum was captured in 600AD.
610AD saw massive border expansions everywhere, and the capture of Boston.
Knight's Templar were completed in 620AD.
Washington and the Hanging Gardens were captured in 630AD - but America isn't dead yet. Boo! Hiss!
640AD saw the demise of the Celts and the Mongols, and we now own the great library (and got republic with it).
And last but not least, in 650AD Babylon and Carthage left the game, and we are in control of the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus.


We nearly control the whole continent now, and once we control it completely, it might be sufficient for a domination victory - or not. Since Washington and Boston still had intact harbors, I rushed two galleys there just in case we need them.

Cuzco and Athens now make 18sp, albeit at -1 food. But a warning to the next player: I haven't micromanaged much except our main knight producing cities - it isn't necessary anymore IMHO.

Damn, only five dead civs during my turns...too bad America had a city overseas...

Roster:
Reagan
Speaker
Kylerean
Arathorn <-- UP NOW
T-hawk <-- on deck?


-Kylearan

 

[T-hawk]

Feel free to finish it off all the way, Arathorn. Make your (temporary?) exit from the SG scene in style.

 

[Arathorn]

Got it. Will see if I can finish it off tonight. Probably greatly depends on how much land there still is east of what I can see in the north. Heck, there might be land east of what we can see in the south, too, but that seems less likely.

Took quite a while to get rolling and it looks like the final stages will be quick and painless. Not too bad of a game. I wonder who's left to kill, besides America....

Arathorn

 

[Reagan]

It's perfectly fine with me if you want to finish the game, Arathorn. This has been fun!

 

[Arathorn]

Despite poor play on my part, I finished off the French in 670, the Americans in 690, the Portuguese in 710, and won in 730. Not much interesting to really say about these turns -- just pushing forward with overwhelming troops.

There was a LOT of land east of Portugal yet. I was working my way through the Zulu and could easily get to the Indians, too. We could've probably hit 80% of land total just on our pangea.

I sailed west after the destruction of the Americans, too, and managed to go around the world and make contact with the Byzantines. The capture of Adrianople might have put us over the top. No total destruction, but we were unstoppable.

Two more MGLs became a knight army and the Pentagon. In case anybody was curious.

So, we see....

 

[Arathorn]

Of course I finished it off. With over 60% of the land already in hand, it was trivial. Didn't even come close to needing overtime. OK, so I stretched thinner than was wise, but it just didn't matter at this point. Oporto on a hill was a pain and so on, but....

Our final score was 4570. Zululand was second with 185. I don't think I've ever seen that kind of score differential before. England, somehow, managed to end with 1 point. Why not zero?

Replay was interesting. We started slowly. Somewhere around 400 AD, though, the pace accelerated and the green carpet started expanding 2-3 cities/turn. Huge jump when the ToA temple expansions kicked in. Zimbabwe, though, ended as the #1 city, not Tenochtitlan. Oh well.

Twas a fun game. Beginning was certainly interesting and different and exciting. Fewest workers built in any SG in a LONG time. Only very few settlers, too. That's something different.

Final save attached, too. Thanks for the game all!

Arathorn

 

[Speaker]

It was an interesting concept Arathorn. Thanks for a fun game. Not that the game was ever really in doubt, but I think we each got at least one turn where it was a "struggle," and as far as SGs go, you can't ask for much more than that. Achieving 50-100 difficult turns without playing Sid or Deity is pretty impressive for a variant, especially one on Regent, I think.

 

[Kylearan]

That was a nice game - as Speaker has said, everyone had at least one exciting turn, and I even enjoyed the last few turns rolling over so many civs at once with out superior forces.

Surprisingly, the additional rules for armies didn't change much. I don't think we would have used armies for pillaging much in this kind of scenario, where pillaging one resource would only have stopped one, at most two cities from producing swords/pikes/horses. And the armies were still powerful enough to capture cities on their own, even without stacking them with other units.

Thanks to all for playing!

-Kylearan