grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
well, as far as tech's go, i think were down by about 10.
LotR17 Dueling Deity
- Thread starter Arathorn
- Start date
(0) 625 - Move Washingtons citizen to work the copper mine instead of a forest and save a turn on the settler. NY will grow unhappy soon, but its got the food to burn, no good specialists, and will be able to support that citizen once its temple completes. I leave it alone.
(I) Hunting completes. I start us on Pottery. Cottages and Financial are a good pair, if we ever have land tiles to work. Plus, its on the way to Metal-Casting.
(1) 600 - Start building a camp on the ivory. Explore with two galleys (find Calcutta -- a size 1 city) and more land to the south. The other returns towards Washington to get the next settler, when its ready.
(3) 550 - Bombay is size 11. But only defended by 2 archers and a spear. Heck, we could have that much military in 30 turns if we started during grahamiams turn.
Ivory comes in and Gandhi starts a Golden Age, the first of many, I presume.
(5) 500 - Our economy is in the drink and Im going to found another city. Im seriously thinking about building axemen and going after Bangalore.
(6) 475 - I started Iron Working next, actually. Will we have iron? Dare we go after Bangalore? Oh, and Gandhi completes Great Library. We dont even have Alphabet and hes completing a wonder for Literature.
(8) 425 - Found Philadelphia. Itll get another lux, eventually, one its borders expand and we get the tech for it. And our city upkeep costs are quite high. Hard to do much of anything.
(9) 400 - Our transport galley should get the worker near Boston and move it over to by Philadelphia. It can work on improving things there.
I turned the Avoid Growth thing on in Washington. It would grow to unhappiness and we dont need that right now. NY is unhappy but will be even on happiness once its temple completes.
Im stopping after 9 to even the turns. Judging by F9, were about one-third of Gandhi right now, in terms of hammers and gold. We have only about 1/5th the population, though.
On the plus side, thats better than wed be doing against everybody if we were doing AWN, so its not all bad -- not yet, anyway.
Roster:
Arathorn
Mark1031 - UP NOW!
Vol - on deck
bed_head7
grahamiam
Arathorn
(I) Hunting completes. I start us on Pottery. Cottages and Financial are a good pair, if we ever have land tiles to work. Plus, its on the way to Metal-Casting.
(1) 600 - Start building a camp on the ivory. Explore with two galleys (find Calcutta -- a size 1 city) and more land to the south. The other returns towards Washington to get the next settler, when its ready.
(3) 550 - Bombay is size 11. But only defended by 2 archers and a spear. Heck, we could have that much military in 30 turns if we started during grahamiams turn.
Ivory comes in and Gandhi starts a Golden Age, the first of many, I presume.
(5) 500 - Our economy is in the drink and Im going to found another city. Im seriously thinking about building axemen and going after Bangalore.
(6) 475 - I started Iron Working next, actually. Will we have iron? Dare we go after Bangalore? Oh, and Gandhi completes Great Library. We dont even have Alphabet and hes completing a wonder for Literature.
(8) 425 - Found Philadelphia. Itll get another lux, eventually, one its borders expand and we get the tech for it. And our city upkeep costs are quite high. Hard to do much of anything.
(9) 400 - Our transport galley should get the worker near Boston and move it over to by Philadelphia. It can work on improving things there.
I turned the Avoid Growth thing on in Washington. It would grow to unhappiness and we dont need that right now. NY is unhappy but will be even on happiness once its temple completes.
Im stopping after 9 to even the turns. Judging by F9, were about one-third of Gandhi right now, in terms of hammers and gold. We have only about 1/5th the population, though.
On the plus side, thats better than wed be doing against everybody if we were doing AWN, so its not all bad -- not yet, anyway.
Roster:
Arathorn
Mark1031 - UP NOW!
Vol - on deck
bed_head7
grahamiam
Arathorn
375: Bangalore now has 3 Archers and 1 spear. Forget about it for now. I really think our best hope is to expand and make sure we grab what we can. In particular we need high production sites however I don’t really see any. Food and health will be an issue. I see corn and crabs that we should grab but that will be it. Lux are also scarce. We need to be Monarchy with large MP for this.
NY Temple->settler. Set it to 1 priest to get prophet for our shrine.
350: DC Library->settler
325: Gandi finds Jesus. We reach the end of the world on his side but get no message. Is’nt this supposed to give us equivalent of Magellans voyage?
300: Boston becomes Christian. We need a missionary to give it Hindu as well.
275:zzz
250: IW in -> Monarchy in 10
225-150: Not much. DC Library->Rax. Gandi founds Taoism in 150. Explored most of the world and there is not much out there. Very limited resources. We should grab a silks and stone on the island SW of Bangalore. This should have reasonable production. Also the corn site on the south of Island 2. We have a settler ready to found by the Iron hill.
IMO we need to spam a few settlers maybe 1-2 more and get lighthouses on line to support them. When Monarchy comes in I would revolt to Hereditary rules and slavery so we can whip some things. DC is our only good production city ATM and should churn units for protection and MPs while the other cities expand and build infra. I would also push to construction for elephants and pults. With a stock of pults we can take Banglore and hopefully make peace before Gandi can send too much at us. Not sure how easy it is to pound techs. I have found this to be highly variable. One time I got a bunch doing almost nothing and another time I couldn’t get any after concurring 1/3 of an AI empire with very little losses. I don’t know what the determining factor is.
PS I'm out till the 16th
NY Temple->settler. Set it to 1 priest to get prophet for our shrine.
350: DC Library->settler
325: Gandi finds Jesus. We reach the end of the world on his side but get no message. Is’nt this supposed to give us equivalent of Magellans voyage?
300: Boston becomes Christian. We need a missionary to give it Hindu as well.
275:zzz
250: IW in -> Monarchy in 10
225-150: Not much. DC Library->Rax. Gandi founds Taoism in 150. Explored most of the world and there is not much out there. Very limited resources. We should grab a silks and stone on the island SW of Bangalore. This should have reasonable production. Also the corn site on the south of Island 2. We have a settler ready to found by the Iron hill.
IMO we need to spam a few settlers maybe 1-2 more and get lighthouses on line to support them. When Monarchy comes in I would revolt to Hereditary rules and slavery so we can whip some things. DC is our only good production city ATM and should churn units for protection and MPs while the other cities expand and build infra. I would also push to construction for elephants and pults. With a stock of pults we can take Banglore and hopefully make peace before Gandi can send too much at us. Not sure how easy it is to pound techs. I have found this to be highly variable. One time I got a bunch doing almost nothing and another time I couldn’t get any after concurring 1/3 of an AI empire with very little losses. I don’t know what the determining factor is.
PS I'm out till the 16th
Roster:
Arathorn
Mark1031 -- out until 16th
Vol - UP NOW!
bed_head7 - on deck
grahamiam
I, too, have found my settlements in peace treaties to be very hard to determine. I have no thoughts on that, save that it'll probably be very tough to pointy-stick more than a single tech and I wouldn't be surprised to see 0 techs.
I think that's only for cylindrical maps, not flat maps. I think it's disabled for flat maps (and I'd done it on my turn, too -- darn fog-of-war is TOO dark).
Keep on keepin' on!
Arathorn
Arathorn
Mark1031 -- out until 16th
Vol - UP NOW!
bed_head7 - on deck
grahamiam
I, too, have found my settlements in peace treaties to be very hard to determine. I have no thoughts on that, save that it'll probably be very tough to pointy-stick more than a single tech and I wouldn't be surprised to see 0 techs.
I think that's only for cylindrical maps, not flat maps. I think it's disabled for flat maps (and I'd done it on my turn, too -- darn fog-of-war is TOO dark).
Keep on keepin' on!
Arathorn
On further reflection I think the way to go on this one might be to not worry aboug Bangalore and strike right at Gandi's heart and burn down one of his core cities on a bit of a suicide mission, which ever city has the most wonders and is least defended. Maybe need 10-12 units (3-4 cats and swords axemen mix) We can always take out Bangalore and we need to do something major to slow him down.
Vol
Sophist
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 349
Got it. Will play tonight.
I have also seen high variability in my peace-talk technology trades. I've gotten 2 techs from a nearly phony war where I only razed one small outpost on my island. I've gotten 0 techs (out of 2 available) when I have captured 2 major towns (including a capitol) and razed another town. And everything in between.
Hopefully, this horrible land will also slow down our opponent. In theory, being a Mirror map, he has no resources to gain (unless he's building a Noah's Ark of resources) from taking our lands. That, combined with our unappealing, unproductive land, and combined with Gandhi's natural personality, means we can probably avoid hostilities until the time of our choosing.
Sounds like we need everything (military, research, more cities, more infrastructure), so I'll do the best I can finding a balance. I do think Siege units will be critical, however.
I have also seen high variability in my peace-talk technology trades. I've gotten 2 techs from a nearly phony war where I only razed one small outpost on my island. I've gotten 0 techs (out of 2 available) when I have captured 2 major towns (including a capitol) and razed another town. And everything in between.
Hopefully, this horrible land will also slow down our opponent. In theory, being a Mirror map, he has no resources to gain (unless he's building a Noah's Ark of resources) from taking our lands. That, combined with our unappealing, unproductive land, and combined with Gandhi's natural personality, means we can probably avoid hostilities until the time of our choosing.
Sounds like we need everything (military, research, more cities, more infrastructure), so I'll do the best I can finding a balance. I do think Siege units will be critical, however.
Vol
Sophist
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 349
(0) 150 BC
Well these Mirror maps are interesting. The AI chose to settle Delhi, Bombay, and Calcutta exactly where we placed Washington, New York, and Boston. We put Philadelphia near the Dyes, Gandhi put his city (Lahore) 3 tiles away to get the Iron instead. Bangalore got put on our side of the map, but Gandhi also has a city (Madras) in the exact same place on his side (he has two identical Bangalores, basically).
We're at the happy limit in Washington with 6 citizens, and to avoid growth we have one working as a Scientist, which is good as it piles up some Great People points (are there any ways we can utilize Great People to catch up a bit given our circumstances?
)
All of the demographics seem to confirm the assertion: the Deity opponent is double the human player. Gold, food, production, etc. Except for Power and Culture, where our opponent is easily at quadruple our levels.
Another really interesting effect of the extra Settler the Deity opponent starts with: Bombay, the fishing village mirror of New York, is the holy city for Buddism and Judaism!
While with this map and setup it may not have much effect, this would significantly mitigate the shrine income in a normal game, as it wouldn't get boosted in the capitol. Kind of an unintended side-effect that weakens a Deity AI a bit. So, because a Deity opponent expands so quickly, their religions will be founded in possibly minor cities, and (especially on an archipelago), they will have a hard time getting all cities on one religion, and thus get little benefit from the religion civics. Having the AI get all of the religions isn't that bad after all.
(1) 125 BC
Gandhi founds Karachi on the tip of "our" horses/spices island (where Boston is). Another lesson on Deity Archipelago: once the AI gets a city on an island, it will pump out settlers to fill that island.
I decide to settle in place (where Mark1031 left the Settler). Without Gandhi, I think I would have settled one tile west. But I really don't want more cultural pressure than necessary, and I want to save a turn. So, I found Atlanta. Since it has such poor tiles to work, and we only have two workers in our entire empire, I have it start on a Worker. Our finances go from -2/turn to -6/turn with the new city, and with a treasury of 38 gold, I have to back off research to 70% (-1/turn).
Philadelphia finishes the Lighthouse and starts on an Axemen. The barracks would take 30 turns, the Axeman 18. Since all we have is 6 Warriors for our entire military (with our 5 cities), I decided we needed something with the semblance of teeth sooner rather than later.
(2) 100 BC
Gandhi already has a Christian missionary moving to Karachi (what was I saying about the AI being poor at spreading religion?
). Of course, I'm pretty sure this is the free missionary he received when founding Christianity in Bangalore.
(3) 75 BC Nothing.
(4) 50 BC
Monarchy comes in. I select Math in 8, as its the prerequisite for Construction. But Construction would take 15 turns at our current pace! And another tempting tech, Metal Casting for Forges in our shield-poor cities, is 14 turns of research. Math is the cheapest tech we can research (except Archery and Meditation which we have put off). Math is also required for Calendar, so we can access those Dyes with a Plantation.
Washington gets its Barracks. Select Axeman in 3. A Temple could be built for +1 happy, and then a Lighthouse for more food on those water tiles, but we have to stop neglecting our military.
New York finishes another Settler. This one I plan to send south to the Corn, for fear of Gandhi stealing that soon. Starts another Settler in 11. I don't want to try and settle the Silks 'n' Stone island, as it would be quite isolate from our empire, with Karachi and Bangalore dividing it, and would be an easy target that could not be easily reinforced. Also, the maintenance on this far away city would kill us.
As much as I'd like Missionaries to spread the faith, it would take 4 turns in Washington and 13 in New York. I'm not yet convinced we don't want to match the state religion of our opponent and get a 6 or 7 point relations swing (from -3 to +3 or +4). This is an option only really available in 1v1. Clearly, religion is a method to help our shield-poor cities with Organized Religion, but in our fragile state, I don't think we can choose this over basic military.
We revolt to Hereditary Rule (+1 happy from MP, Medium Upkeep) and Slavery (can whip, Low Upkeep).
(5) 25 BC
We emerge from Anarchy. Our civic cost remains 1 gold, from Organized Religion. Hereditary Rule has no effect on our finances at the moment.
(6) 1 AD
Hooray, we've survived 4000 years! Lets shoot for another 1000!
(7) 25 AD Nothing.
(8) 50 AD
Axeman produced in Washington, leaving promotion unchosen until needed. Start on a Lighthouse in 3 so that we can grow into our new MP-enabled happiness and also have specialists. Axeman fortifies in Washington for now.
Found Chicago one tile south of the Corn, which avoids cultural conflict with the first 9 tiles. Starts a Lighthouse in 30 (ugh).
This kills our finances.
I switch New York from Settler to Library, as I don't think we should be building any new cities for a little bit. This also allows New York to grow a bit (again, with MP allowing more happy).
(9) 75 AD Nothing.
(10) 100 AD
Not much. The Galleys are starting to return home to help shuttle as we get some troops.
Bangalore is defended by 2 Archer, Karachi by 3 Archer and a Spearman. I think we should strike at the Delhi or Bombay instead though, try and really cripple him. Not sure how reputation works when we have open borders and want to declare war. Can we do so with a boat in his waters? If so, what is the penalty? Is it worth that penalty? If not, can our offensive succeed without surprise and enduring a few turns at sea?
Transporting a military with Galleys (2 units each) seems quite cumbersome. If its too cumbersome, we'll have to settle for Bangalore and Karachi, using a force rallied at Boston. I don't think Gandhi has much of a Navy, we could try and exploit that somehow.
I just realized I never used Slavery to whip anyone. I hope I didn't miss a good opportunity. Also, I think we need to figure out how to work more of those 3 gold water tiles.
--- The Save ---
Roster:
Arathorn
Mark1031 - Out until 16th
Vol - just played
bed_head7 - Up now!
grahamiam - on deck
Well these Mirror maps are interesting. The AI chose to settle Delhi, Bombay, and Calcutta exactly where we placed Washington, New York, and Boston. We put Philadelphia near the Dyes, Gandhi put his city (Lahore) 3 tiles away to get the Iron instead. Bangalore got put on our side of the map, but Gandhi also has a city (Madras) in the exact same place on his side (he has two identical Bangalores, basically).
We're at the happy limit in Washington with 6 citizens, and to avoid growth we have one working as a Scientist, which is good as it piles up some Great People points (are there any ways we can utilize Great People to catch up a bit given our circumstances?
)All of the demographics seem to confirm the assertion: the Deity opponent is double the human player. Gold, food, production, etc. Except for Power and Culture, where our opponent is easily at quadruple our levels.
Another really interesting effect of the extra Settler the Deity opponent starts with: Bombay, the fishing village mirror of New York, is the holy city for Buddism and Judaism!
While with this map and setup it may not have much effect, this would significantly mitigate the shrine income in a normal game, as it wouldn't get boosted in the capitol. Kind of an unintended side-effect that weakens a Deity AI a bit. So, because a Deity opponent expands so quickly, their religions will be founded in possibly minor cities, and (especially on an archipelago), they will have a hard time getting all cities on one religion, and thus get little benefit from the religion civics. Having the AI get all of the religions isn't that bad after all.
(1) 125 BC
Gandhi founds Karachi on the tip of "our" horses/spices island (where Boston is). Another lesson on Deity Archipelago: once the AI gets a city on an island, it will pump out settlers to fill that island.
I decide to settle in place (where Mark1031 left the Settler). Without Gandhi, I think I would have settled one tile west. But I really don't want more cultural pressure than necessary, and I want to save a turn. So, I found Atlanta. Since it has such poor tiles to work, and we only have two workers in our entire empire, I have it start on a Worker. Our finances go from -2/turn to -6/turn with the new city, and with a treasury of 38 gold, I have to back off research to 70% (-1/turn).
Philadelphia finishes the Lighthouse and starts on an Axemen. The barracks would take 30 turns, the Axeman 18. Since all we have is 6 Warriors for our entire military (with our 5 cities), I decided we needed something with the semblance of teeth sooner rather than later.
(2) 100 BC
Gandhi already has a Christian missionary moving to Karachi (what was I saying about the AI being poor at spreading religion?
). Of course, I'm pretty sure this is the free missionary he received when founding Christianity in Bangalore.(3) 75 BC Nothing.
(4) 50 BC
Monarchy comes in. I select Math in 8, as its the prerequisite for Construction. But Construction would take 15 turns at our current pace! And another tempting tech, Metal Casting for Forges in our shield-poor cities, is 14 turns of research. Math is the cheapest tech we can research (except Archery and Meditation which we have put off). Math is also required for Calendar, so we can access those Dyes with a Plantation.
Washington gets its Barracks. Select Axeman in 3. A Temple could be built for +1 happy, and then a Lighthouse for more food on those water tiles, but we have to stop neglecting our military.
New York finishes another Settler. This one I plan to send south to the Corn, for fear of Gandhi stealing that soon. Starts another Settler in 11. I don't want to try and settle the Silks 'n' Stone island, as it would be quite isolate from our empire, with Karachi and Bangalore dividing it, and would be an easy target that could not be easily reinforced. Also, the maintenance on this far away city would kill us.
As much as I'd like Missionaries to spread the faith, it would take 4 turns in Washington and 13 in New York. I'm not yet convinced we don't want to match the state religion of our opponent and get a 6 or 7 point relations swing (from -3 to +3 or +4). This is an option only really available in 1v1. Clearly, religion is a method to help our shield-poor cities with Organized Religion, but in our fragile state, I don't think we can choose this over basic military.
We revolt to Hereditary Rule (+1 happy from MP, Medium Upkeep) and Slavery (can whip, Low Upkeep).
(5) 25 BC
We emerge from Anarchy. Our civic cost remains 1 gold, from Organized Religion. Hereditary Rule has no effect on our finances at the moment.
(6) 1 AD
Hooray, we've survived 4000 years! Lets shoot for another 1000!
(7) 25 AD Nothing.
(8) 50 AD
Axeman produced in Washington, leaving promotion unchosen until needed. Start on a Lighthouse in 3 so that we can grow into our new MP-enabled happiness and also have specialists. Axeman fortifies in Washington for now.
Found Chicago one tile south of the Corn, which avoids cultural conflict with the first 9 tiles. Starts a Lighthouse in 30 (ugh).
This kills our finances.
I switch New York from Settler to Library, as I don't think we should be building any new cities for a little bit. This also allows New York to grow a bit (again, with MP allowing more happy).
(9) 75 AD Nothing.
(10) 100 AD
Not much. The Galleys are starting to return home to help shuttle as we get some troops.
Bangalore is defended by 2 Archer, Karachi by 3 Archer and a Spearman. I think we should strike at the Delhi or Bombay instead though, try and really cripple him. Not sure how reputation works when we have open borders and want to declare war. Can we do so with a boat in his waters? If so, what is the penalty? Is it worth that penalty? If not, can our offensive succeed without surprise and enduring a few turns at sea?
Transporting a military with Galleys (2 units each) seems quite cumbersome. If its too cumbersome, we'll have to settle for Bangalore and Karachi, using a force rallied at Boston. I don't think Gandhi has much of a Navy, we could try and exploit that somehow.
I just realized I never used Slavery to whip anyone.
I hope I didn't miss a good opportunity. Also, I think we need to figure out how to work more of those 3 gold water tiles.
--- The Save ---
Roster:
Arathorn
Mark1031 - Out until 16th
Vol - just played
bed_head7 - Up now!
grahamiam - on deck
I hope Chicago claims a resource (I can't really tell from the map). It seems ... counterproductive to me to found a city that doesn't claim SOMETHING that will help the whole empire. Especially as costs for founding cities continues to rise. The benefit of a city for the entire empire (in terms of what it gives resource-wise, if not cost-wise) should outweigh its support cost, at least fairly early in its life, if not right away. The center spot with two resources benefits the whole empire like that. Chicago may, too (I can't tell), but that should be considered when founding cities.
If we declare war with a boat in Gandhi's waters, it will get kicked out. Somehow, though (a bug), the AI is able to cross borders without open borders and isn't always kicked out when declaring war. Something to be aware of.
Glad we're still alive!
Arathorn
If we declare war with a boat in Gandhi's waters, it will get kicked out. Somehow, though (a bug), the AI is able to cross borders without open borders and isn't always kicked out when declaring war. Something to be aware of.
Glad we're still alive!
Arathorn
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
Chicago gets corn, which helps with health, though we probably need more help with happiness atm (though I don't remember seeing readily available luxes).
150 AD (2) - Indians complete Notre Dame, and Mahavira is born in Delhi.
175 AD (3) - Math comes in, and I select Calender so that we can put a plantation on our dyes for some extra happy help. I also decide to chance it, and switch from an axeman to barracks in Philadelphia.
225 AD (5) - Another Axeman completes out of Washinton. Start on a granary, which will provide a two health boost from corn and rice.
275 AD (7) - Hmm.
350 AD (10) - Whip barracks to completion in Philadelphia.
The barracks in Boston and the Lighthouse in Chicago should both also be whipped during the next player's turns.
New York is again at its unhappiness limit, but it is still working 7/8 tiles and getting a suprlus of 2fpt. Once it completes its library, drop a scientist in there in addition to the priest already there. I would suggest a granary there, too, as the two added health mean we could put a third scientist there while maintaining our size at eight, and then with dyes hooked up it can grow to nine and do the same thing.
I did not do too much with our military, and though time is not our friend in this game, I still feel it is necessary to get some basic infrastructure in our main cities so they can better handle a long period of troop buildup. Washington's granary finished, though I forgot to note it, and it should be able to just churn out units for the next few turnsets. Considering the fact that the Indians do have horses hooked up, it wouldn't be a bad idea to mix some spearmen in with the axemen every once in a while.
175 AD (3) - Math comes in, and I select Calender so that we can put a plantation on our dyes for some extra happy help. I also decide to chance it, and switch from an axeman to barracks in Philadelphia.
225 AD (5) - Another Axeman completes out of Washinton. Start on a granary, which will provide a two health boost from corn and rice.
275 AD (7) - Hmm.
350 AD (10) - Whip barracks to completion in Philadelphia.
The barracks in Boston and the Lighthouse in Chicago should both also be whipped during the next player's turns.
New York is again at its unhappiness limit, but it is still working 7/8 tiles and getting a suprlus of 2fpt. Once it completes its library, drop a scientist in there in addition to the priest already there. I would suggest a granary there, too, as the two added health mean we could put a third scientist there while maintaining our size at eight, and then with dyes hooked up it can grow to nine and do the same thing.
I did not do too much with our military, and though time is not our friend in this game, I still feel it is necessary to get some basic infrastructure in our main cities so they can better handle a long period of troop buildup. Washington's granary finished, though I forgot to note it, and it should be able to just churn out units for the next few turnsets. Considering the fact that the Indians do have horses hooked up, it wouldn't be a bad idea to mix some spearmen in with the axemen every once in a while.
Vol
Sophist
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 349
Chicago was founded for a variety of reasons. Let me give my explanations, and we can learn from the decision and discussion.
I believe being able to have some specialists in our cities will be very important (for the shields, research, and great people poitns). Having specialists means you need tiles that produce enough food for more than one citizen. Chicago enables this by having a Corn tile which it can work and provide surplus food to run specialists, and it provides Corn for healthiness, also increasing surplus food throughout the empire, allowing more specialists. With the hill and grassland tile, in addition to all of the coastal tiles, this should be commerically productive city soon.
Additionally, I felt it was a strategically important location. It secures that island for us, as well as the resource. Defending 3 cities on one land mass is certainly easier than defending 3 cities on 3 seperate islands. I believed that if Gandhi had settled there before us (and he hadn't founded a city in a while, and we know Bangalore is a powerhouse), it would have really cut us off from future locations.
It had some significant maintenance cost at first, but once the Corn tile is improved, it can use a bunch of those 3 gold water tiles and run a specialist or two and still be growing. I think the most recent turns in RB1 illustrate how even seemly poor locations can actually contribute if you have some surplus food and high commerce tiles.
I think the next city (if there is one for a while) should be to the southeast of Washington (northeast of Philadelphia). That is, if there are resources accessible there, I seem to remember there being something. If there's no resources at that location, then nevermind.
I still think the Silks 'n' Stone island (southwest of Bangalore) is a stretch for us, despite having the potential of extra happiness. I'd rather build MP for that happiness (and security), than extend our empire that much thinner.
I believe being able to have some specialists in our cities will be very important (for the shields, research, and great people poitns). Having specialists means you need tiles that produce enough food for more than one citizen. Chicago enables this by having a Corn tile which it can work and provide surplus food to run specialists, and it provides Corn for healthiness, also increasing surplus food throughout the empire, allowing more specialists. With the hill and grassland tile, in addition to all of the coastal tiles, this should be commerically productive city soon.
Additionally, I felt it was a strategically important location. It secures that island for us, as well as the resource. Defending 3 cities on one land mass is certainly easier than defending 3 cities on 3 seperate islands. I believed that if Gandhi had settled there before us (and he hadn't founded a city in a while, and we know Bangalore is a powerhouse), it would have really cut us off from future locations.
It had some significant maintenance cost at first, but once the Corn tile is improved, it can use a bunch of those 3 gold water tiles and run a specialist or two and still be growing. I think the most recent turns in RB1 illustrate how even seemly poor locations can actually contribute if you have some surplus food and high commerce tiles.
I think the next city (if there is one for a while) should be to the southeast of Washington (northeast of Philadelphia). That is, if there are resources accessible there, I seem to remember there being something. If there's no resources at that location, then nevermind.
I still think the Silks 'n' Stone island (southwest of Bangalore) is a stretch for us, despite having the potential of extra happiness. I'd rather build MP for that happiness (and security), than extend our empire that much thinner.
I wasn't aware the corn was by Chicago. 5 food means a specialist-and-a-half there. And water is good for commerce. We need as much commerce as we can get. Ability to reinforce and defend is important, too. And silks'n'stones would've had MORE maintenance cost than Chicago, not less (because it'd be further away). It does claim something of slightly greater benefit to our nation, so I like it. I might've stretched for silks'n'stones, just because, well, it's Gandhi. He's not likely to attack and if he founded at the Chicago location, I think it'd be easier for us to assault than an island city alone. But that's just me. I do think Chicago makes sense. (I also like attacking IN to gain a city rather than out -- I don't mind a city or two of a foe's in my empire, it gives me a good first target to capture rather than raze. Again, though, that's just me.)
I would also like to see us get another city or two. I know maintenance costs are getting steep, but we're going to need size (people) and tons of commerce to catch Gandhi. And while the AI is a LOT better at naval invasions than it used to be, they're still quite hard to pull off. I'd like to see silks'n'stones founded. And I would tend to focus on naval might, not land might, for this game -- at least at this point. Just disrupting Gandhi's commerce and starving his cities will help us catch up, if we can do it in a way that doesn't lose us anything of value (like a city).
Good discussion. I'd rather see more discussion as opposed to less.
Note: Bangalore is the center of TWO religions. That would make it quite nice to capture, as well as a HUGE threat culturally to us.
Roster:
Arathorn - on deck
Mark1031 - Out until 16th
Vol - just played
bed_head7
grahamiam - Up now!
Man, this game MOVES! I swear I just played a couple days ago.
Arathorn
I would also like to see us get another city or two. I know maintenance costs are getting steep, but we're going to need size (people) and tons of commerce to catch Gandhi. And while the AI is a LOT better at naval invasions than it used to be, they're still quite hard to pull off. I'd like to see silks'n'stones founded. And I would tend to focus on naval might, not land might, for this game -- at least at this point. Just disrupting Gandhi's commerce and starving his cities will help us catch up, if we can do it in a way that doesn't lose us anything of value (like a city).
Good discussion. I'd rather see more discussion as opposed to less.
Note: Bangalore is the center of TWO religions. That would make it quite nice to capture, as well as a HUGE threat culturally to us.
Roster:
Arathorn - on deck
Mark1031 - Out until 16th
Vol - just played
bed_head7
grahamiam - Up now!
Man, this game MOVES! I swear I just played a couple days ago.
Arathorn
Vol
Sophist
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 349
You know, from a purely strategic standpoint, I think I agree with your ideas on attacking in rather than out. If Gandhi had founded Chicago, it would be mucher easier to take than a city on another island. So if we found Chicago, its easier to defend, and if Gandhi founds Chicago, its easier to take. But the latter could require one less Settler.
I would also say that Bangalore and Karachi are already targets available as "attacking in", since they are on our side of the map and far from the rest of Gandhi's empire, are also reachable by land from Boston, which also a short trip from our other two (major) islands. I don't think any war to take those two cities will see any reinforcements from the Indian mainland, and if we can take two cities (one of them quite nice in Bangalore) from a Deity opponent, I'd consider that a fine first military accomplishment.
But I guess when I stop being objective and am the one doing the clicking, I didn't feel comfortable pushing to Silks 'n' Stone. I suppose I've been surprised-attacked by the AI too much in my solo games that with a Deity opponent and our paper-thin garrisons I feared the worst. The speed of Galleys (or lack there-of) and the distance to that island made it seem like a logistics, reinforcement, and maintenance nightmare. Courthouses, longbowmen, and galleons would make me quickly change my mind, however.
Also, Bangalore isn't producing any culture from its two religions if Gandhi is still Buddhist as his state religion. You only get +5 culture/turn from a holy city if it is the state religion, or you have no state religion.
I don't think we can have much success with a sea-based invasion of other Indian lands until we get Galleons. I think we should try and get 3-4 Swordsmen, 2-3 Axemen and 3-4 Catapults and go grab Boston island. That gets us Horses, Spices, and Cow, and leaves us with 3 islands and 8 cities. But if we don't focus on this as a goal, its going flounder and we'll miss an opportunity (since we'll be going up against Riflemen and Machine Guns instead of Archers, Longbowmen, and Spearmen).
Excellent discussions.
I would also say that Bangalore and Karachi are already targets available as "attacking in", since they are on our side of the map and far from the rest of Gandhi's empire, are also reachable by land from Boston, which also a short trip from our other two (major) islands. I don't think any war to take those two cities will see any reinforcements from the Indian mainland, and if we can take two cities (one of them quite nice in Bangalore) from a Deity opponent, I'd consider that a fine first military accomplishment.
But I guess when I stop being objective and am the one doing the clicking, I didn't feel comfortable pushing to Silks 'n' Stone. I suppose I've been surprised-attacked by the AI too much in my solo games that with a Deity opponent and our paper-thin garrisons I feared the worst. The speed of Galleys (or lack there-of) and the distance to that island made it seem like a logistics, reinforcement, and maintenance nightmare. Courthouses, longbowmen, and galleons would make me quickly change my mind, however.
Also, Bangalore isn't producing any culture from its two religions if Gandhi is still Buddhist as his state religion. You only get +5 culture/turn from a holy city if it is the state religion, or you have no state religion.
I don't think we can have much success with a sea-based invasion of other Indian lands until we get Galleons. I think we should try and get 3-4 Swordsmen, 2-3 Axemen and 3-4 Catapults and go grab Boston island. That gets us Horses, Spices, and Cow, and leaves us with 3 islands and 8 cities. But if we don't focus on this as a goal, its going flounder and we'll miss an opportunity (since we'll be going up against Riflemen and Machine Guns instead of Archers, Longbowmen, and Spearmen).
Excellent discussions.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
got it. will play and post later (after reading 
)
)
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
Preflight check: 3-4 Swords, 2-3 Axeman, 3-4 Cats. Copper in hand for the Axes, Iron is near Atlanta (under cultural threat, in process of being connected), Cats require Construction but we are currently researching Calender (4T). Ok, looks good. We can get the units while researching Construction.
Theres clams SE of Washington, sheep and Fish E, SE of Chicago.
Health is really our limiting factor atm (max 4 in many towns), so 2 more settlers for the lambs and crabs will be necessary. Bangalore has cows which would be nice as well (currently defended by 4 archers and an axeman)
IBT: Philly rax -> axe
T1: 375AD moving galleys
IBT: Philly axe -> axe
T2: 400AD whip Lighthouse in Chicago and barracks in Boston
IBT: Washington axe -> sword; Boston barracks -> axe; Chicago Lighthouse -> Lib
T3: 425AD nada
Calender -> construction (12T)
Gahdi adopts Vassalage
T4: 450AD workers are building a cottage on the grass near Philly
New York Lib -> settler
T5: 475AD
T6: 500AD All archers are now Longbows in Bangalore
IBT: Washington sword -> sword
Ghandi completes colossus
T7: 520AD Moving an Axe and Sword over to Boston
T8: 540AD ditto
T9: 560AD ditto, plantation work has begun, hire a scientist in Washington to build Great Leader points.
IBT: Washington sword -> sword
T10: 580AD Sword and Axe dropped off in Boston
T11: 600AD Moving the Axe out of Philly so it can load next turn and be ferried to Boston a little sooner.
Bangalore will be a very tough nut to crack. We probably need more than 3 or 4 cats, not sure. Sorry for the extra turn, but I though it would get us back to normal.
Dyes are connected, even though the workers are still hammering
Promotions for all the newly build units have not been assigned. I figured Arathorn had all those promotions figured out by now
Theres clams SE of Washington, sheep and Fish E, SE of Chicago.
Health is really our limiting factor atm (max 4 in many towns), so 2 more settlers for the lambs and crabs will be necessary. Bangalore has cows which would be nice as well (currently defended by 4 archers and an axeman)
IBT: Philly rax -> axe
T1: 375AD moving galleys
IBT: Philly axe -> axe
T2: 400AD whip Lighthouse in Chicago and barracks in Boston
IBT: Washington axe -> sword; Boston barracks -> axe; Chicago Lighthouse -> Lib
T3: 425AD nada
Calender -> construction (12T)
Gahdi adopts Vassalage
T4: 450AD workers are building a cottage on the grass near Philly
New York Lib -> settler
T5: 475AD
T6: 500AD All archers are now Longbows in Bangalore
IBT: Washington sword -> sword
Ghandi completes colossus
T7: 520AD Moving an Axe and Sword over to Boston
T8: 540AD ditto
T9: 560AD ditto, plantation work has begun, hire a scientist in Washington to build Great Leader points.
IBT: Washington sword -> sword
T10: 580AD Sword and Axe dropped off in Boston
T11: 600AD Moving the Axe out of Philly so it can load next turn and be ferried to Boston a little sooner.
Bangalore will be a very tough nut to crack. We probably need more than 3 or 4 cats, not sure. Sorry for the extra turn, but I though it would get us back to normal.
Dyes are connected, even though the workers are still hammering
Promotions for all the newly build units have not been assigned. I figured Arathorn had all those promotions figured out by now
Vol
Sophist
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 349
Wow, Gandhi got some culture going there!
Fantastic work getting the military build-up going!
And hooray to this whole team for being so speedy on their turnsets! Its 600 AD already!
I we could just get Bangalore and Karachi we could hold our own on our half of the map until our next big move (whatever it may be).
Fantastic work getting the military build-up going!
And hooray to this whole team for being so speedy on their turnsets! Its 600 AD already!
I we could just get Bangalore and Karachi we could hold our own on our half of the map until our next big move (whatever it may be).
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
I don't know, it's looking pretty bad. He even has smokestacks on his Pyramids 
Actually, Arathorn, please MM Philly from the coast to the dyes to get more money. Sorry, I forgot to do that.
Actually, Arathorn, please MM Philly from the coast to the dyes to get more money. Sorry, I forgot to do that.
