LotR17 Dueling Deity
- Thread starter Arathorn
- Start date
Vol
Sophist
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 349
I think a "Small Lakes" mirror map would be the best choice, then. And an Aggressive trait leader, since the goal of the game would obviously be Conquest, and that Combat I freebie opens up a lot of interesting specialization capabilities with all your units.
But for now, our waterlogged Gandhi duel remains intriguing. Will Gandhi seek retribution for our actions, or will he whimper to his Spaceship?
But for now, our waterlogged Gandhi duel remains intriguing. Will Gandhi seek retribution for our actions, or will he whimper to his Spaceship?
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
Preflight check: I take an Elephant out of Bangalore (4/2 experience -> gets Combat 1). I want to try some pillaging. Gandhi will take 70g for peace, but Im not sure what that gets us at this point.
Health is still a big issue, and we have clams + lambs to our south, but our maintenance costs are probably becoming an issue so hold off on a settler for now (plus, I want Philly to grow)
T1: 1110AD Load galley with 2nd elephant and move it towards Madras
T2: 1120AD 2 Caravels appear NW of Bangalore, but they are empty
T3: 1130AD 2 Caravels are chasing the boat with the elephants, so I drop them off on the hill 2T east of Madras. I see a knight and a bunch of LBs. Well, we wont be attacking the town so, lets see what happens.
IBT: Elephants defend vs the knight (1.9/8); lost the galley to caravel (0.8/3)
Philadelphia cat -> spear
T4: 1140AD give the defending elephant a Medic1 promotion, and its health jumps to 5.0
Pillage the mine for 10g
T5: 1150AD 1 elephant still healing, the other moves to a cottage tile.
IBT: no attacks still? Boston galley -> court; Atlanta galley -> (wishing for an improvement that gives an extra food to coastal tiles
)
T6: 1160AD Plunder cottage for 14g
IBT: New York Granary -> duct
T7: 1170AD Switch SticksnStones to lighthouse so the plantation chop goes toward it instead of a galley. Pillage village for 20g
IBT: Washington forge -> axe (home defense)
Forest chop gives SticksnStones 55 shields
T8: 1180AD Pillage hamlet for 10g. Move Elephant to cows.
IBT: Washington axe -> spear
T9: 1190AD Pillage cow pasture for 4g, pillage cottage for 16g. Lose 2 galleys but kill 2 Caravels (one was down to 0.8 and never returned to dock to heal).
IBT: Chicago galley -> court
T10 & T11: 1210AD Crap, lost track of turns and played one extra
Sorry!
I have the clock setup on the screen so I don't lose track of time, but now I lose track of turn!
construction due in 1T, pillaging is supporing our -gpt research, and the Indians won't attack the elephants for some odd reason.
Health is still a big issue, and we have clams + lambs to our south, but our maintenance costs are probably becoming an issue so hold off on a settler for now (plus, I want Philly to grow)
T1: 1110AD Load galley with 2nd elephant and move it towards Madras
T2: 1120AD 2 Caravels appear NW of Bangalore, but they are empty
T3: 1130AD 2 Caravels are chasing the boat with the elephants, so I drop them off on the hill 2T east of Madras. I see a knight and a bunch of LBs. Well, we wont be attacking the town so, lets see what happens.
IBT: Elephants defend vs the knight (1.9/8); lost the galley to caravel (0.8/3)
Philadelphia cat -> spear
T4: 1140AD give the defending elephant a Medic1 promotion, and its health jumps to 5.0
Pillage the mine for 10gT5: 1150AD 1 elephant still healing, the other moves to a cottage tile.
IBT: no attacks still? Boston galley -> court; Atlanta galley -> (wishing for an improvement that gives an extra food to coastal tiles
) T6: 1160AD Plunder cottage for 14g
IBT: New York Granary -> duct
T7: 1170AD Switch SticksnStones to lighthouse so the plantation chop goes toward it instead of a galley. Pillage village for 20g
IBT: Washington forge -> axe (home defense)
Forest chop gives SticksnStones 55 shields
T8: 1180AD Pillage hamlet for 10g. Move Elephant to cows.
IBT: Washington axe -> spear
T9: 1190AD Pillage cow pasture for 4g, pillage cottage for 16g. Lose 2 galleys but kill 2 Caravels (one was down to 0.8 and never returned to dock to heal).
IBT: Chicago galley -> court
T10 & T11: 1210AD Crap, lost track of turns and played one extra
Sorry!I have the clock setup on the screen so I don't lose track of time, but now I lose track of turn!
construction due in 1T, pillaging is supporing our -gpt research, and the Indians won't attack the elephants for some odd reason.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
imho, I wouldn't worry about peace. India is doing absolutely nothing, our elephants have free range. Let's just pillage India into the stone age.
I'm worried about peace when that changes. Foes don't do the same thing for the whole game in Civ4. A "passive" foe (even a Gandhi) can break out a serious can of "Where'd that come from?" if you're not careful. I'll keep my eyes open and try to make peace when I see 6 loaded galleons coming our way.
Arathorn
Arathorn
(0) 1210 - Go through and look at our cities. For the most part, they look very good (other than some brutal maintenance costs, which will only get worse as they grow). Bangalore is a military hotspot -- holy cow! I do a few switches to higher commerce/higher food. That includes taking Washington OFF the Dont Allow Growth setting, so that it can grow into its happiness, which is reasonably high at this point.
But with a unit cost already at 24, were building more and more and more units??? Are we expecting to mount another non-pillaging attack? I didnt think that was the plan. But with all these units, Im not sure what else to do . Ill see how it goes.
(I) Currency comes in and I start us towards Feudalism. Longbows cant hurt and its a prereq for Banking, which would allow Mercantilism (very nice) and a bit more income for us. Lots of choices, including Priesthood to allow us to build missionaries to spread Hinduism around.
(1) 1220 - Pillaging to support our deficit research. I load up a couple more elephants on galleys and start shipping them to Indian lands. If theyre going to ignore them, Im going to pillage as long and as much as I can. With peace an option if need be, we can afford to be a bit more aggressive. Im toying with the idea of loading up all those cats and swords in Bangalore and trying to raze a city, to help with our unit costs and to hurt Gandhi even more. But Im leery of going that hog wild, at least at this point. Im playing in fits and spurts, so who knows how Ill feel when its time to actually play a few turns later.
(I) Boston courthouse -> market. I kind of want a forge, but it doesnt have that many shields to multiply, being mostly water, so lets work on its commercial aspects.
Atlanta Galley -> Forge. At 7 hammers/turn, its one of our best producers, as odd as that seems.
(2) 1230 - Our stealthy elephants continue to sneak around Madras, hoping to not awaken the sleeping beast hidden within I wish I could teach more elephants how to tiptoe like this.
Whoops! I curse them. The knight comes riding out and injures our southern elephant, very nearly killing it (0.4 health remaining -- the knight hit 5 times first, but it only did 19 damage and our elephant did 20).
(3) 1240 - Promote to Medic I and heal? Or just promote and continue pillaging? I promote to Medic I and start healing.
As Im moving pillagers westward, theyre hopping off boats onto every small island in their path. I fear the Indian ships and I dont want to lose more units than I have to. Yes, they sometimes have to spend a full turn at sea, but by getting off SW, then moving W (while the boat moves 2 west), then reboarding, the land units spend a minimum amount of time under threat of going to Davey Joness locker without being able to defend themselves.
(I) New knights, this time from Calcutta, charge out. And die to our northern elephant troop, which is now very injured, too. And about out of things to pillage, honestly, on that island.
(4) 1250 - No pillaging just trying to heal, and move up new forces semi-safely.
(I) Yeah, our tech hole is reasonably large. We cant deal with this kind of ship, nor its big brother frigate, which will be appearing soon (also requires Chemistry)
(5) 1260 - Not too much to do while healing. Continue to tiptoe west. Bunch of galleys by Bangalore can load up and set sail next turn, if Im so inclined. That galleon scares me significantly, though. Thats a lot of firepower, and we just cant match it.
(I) More knights from Calcutta finish off the northern elephant. He was the most out of things to pillage anyway. And Gandhi comes offering 30 whole gold pieces for peace. I just cant justify that right now. We can get that much gold in pillaging pretty easily. I just hope the price doesnt go up when I reject him. But I do reject him.
Philly spear -> library. And a turn ago, I started Washington on a Hindu Missionary. Spreading our religion and setting up a shrine are both pretty good plans, IMO. That will help a bit with our cash flow problem.
(6) 1270 - That settler, longbow, longbow trio was sent to the two-plot plains hills island in the middle of the board. That will not be allowed on my watch. 2 swords and 4 catapults sally forth from Bangalore to take care of such nonsense and hopefully help us in our peace negotiations. Was able to pillage a town for 20 gold again this turn, almost all of what Gandhi was willing to pay.
(I) Hyberabad founded. Instant 25% defensive bonus. How handy for a deity foe. Guess those catapults will have their work cut out for them!
(7) 1280 - Axeman and war elephant also embark for the middle of the board. Swords and pults start disembarking. Will bombard first and then found, I suppose. Not sure if Ill get to attack on my turns or not.
I pillage for another 35 gold. And drop off an elephant on their ivory. Then our galley sees a caravel with its name on it and boldly flees! A knight will attack that elephant this interterm, probably, but it should help the southern pillagers have peace a bit longer AND might even win to pillage the ivory, causing a happiness hit. Better shot on land than at sea, anyway.
(I) Guess I was wrong. Northern elephant is left alone. But hes kind of stuck where he is, without ship help (or razing Calcutta all on his own, which is a long shot at best!).
(8) 1290 - 14 more gold from pillaging. And that includes cutting a road from the horses, which may help with our knight problem. Hyberabads defense bombarded down to 10% by our noble catapults. Will that be enough to go in next turn? I dunno. Fortune favors the bold, but only the bold who are prepared, too.
And, whoa! Somehow its 1300. I dont know where I missed a turn in there, but . I did. As tempting as it is to play 14 to get us back on track, Im going to stop after 9 and let someone else have the glory (or ignominy) of attacking Hyberabad. I highly recommend razing. Its just not worth the hit to our treasury to keep. Id also suicide two (or even three) catapults in before sending in the swords. Its on a hill, too, which adds to the defense of the longbows. And those highly-promoted swords are valuable. Id bombard once or twice and then attack with the rest of the pults, then the swords, with axemen a back-up, if necessary. Just my $.02, though.
The front:
The galley nearest Boston was headed to Washington to get the Hindu Missionary and spread the faith a bit. Not sure exactly where at this point, but Hyberabad and SilksnStones both are semi-reasonable targets. Of course, were almost as Islamic as we are Hindi at this point, so maybe its not worth trying to spread Hinduism further. We have the Islamic holy city, too. <Shrug> I was just trying to find ways to help our sagging economy (losing gold at 40% science).
Roster:
Arathorn
Mark1031 - Out until 16th (will slot back in when notified of return)
Vol - Up now!
bed_head7 - on deck
grahamiam
Arathorn
But with a unit cost already at 24, were building more and more and more units??? Are we expecting to mount another non-pillaging attack? I didnt think that was the plan. But with all these units, Im not sure what else to do . Ill see how it goes.
(I) Currency comes in and I start us towards Feudalism. Longbows cant hurt and its a prereq for Banking, which would allow Mercantilism (very nice) and a bit more income for us. Lots of choices, including Priesthood to allow us to build missionaries to spread Hinduism around.
(1) 1220 - Pillaging to support our deficit research. I load up a couple more elephants on galleys and start shipping them to Indian lands. If theyre going to ignore them, Im going to pillage as long and as much as I can. With peace an option if need be, we can afford to be a bit more aggressive. Im toying with the idea of loading up all those cats and swords in Bangalore and trying to raze a city, to help with our unit costs and to hurt Gandhi even more. But Im leery of going that hog wild, at least at this point. Im playing in fits and spurts, so who knows how Ill feel when its time to actually play a few turns later.
(I) Boston courthouse -> market. I kind of want a forge, but it doesnt have that many shields to multiply, being mostly water, so lets work on its commercial aspects.
Atlanta Galley -> Forge. At 7 hammers/turn, its one of our best producers, as odd as that seems.
(2) 1230 - Our stealthy elephants continue to sneak around Madras, hoping to not awaken the sleeping beast hidden within I wish I could teach more elephants how to tiptoe like this.
Whoops! I curse them. The knight comes riding out and injures our southern elephant, very nearly killing it (0.4 health remaining -- the knight hit 5 times first, but it only did 19 damage and our elephant did 20).
(3) 1240 - Promote to Medic I and heal? Or just promote and continue pillaging? I promote to Medic I and start healing.
As Im moving pillagers westward, theyre hopping off boats onto every small island in their path. I fear the Indian ships and I dont want to lose more units than I have to. Yes, they sometimes have to spend a full turn at sea, but by getting off SW, then moving W (while the boat moves 2 west), then reboarding, the land units spend a minimum amount of time under threat of going to Davey Joness locker without being able to defend themselves.
(I) New knights, this time from Calcutta, charge out. And die to our northern elephant troop, which is now very injured, too. And about out of things to pillage, honestly, on that island.
(4) 1250 - No pillaging just trying to heal, and move up new forces semi-safely.
(I) Yeah, our tech hole is reasonably large. We cant deal with this kind of ship, nor its big brother frigate, which will be appearing soon (also requires Chemistry)
(5) 1260 - Not too much to do while healing. Continue to tiptoe west. Bunch of galleys by Bangalore can load up and set sail next turn, if Im so inclined. That galleon scares me significantly, though. Thats a lot of firepower, and we just cant match it.
(I) More knights from Calcutta finish off the northern elephant. He was the most out of things to pillage anyway. And Gandhi comes offering 30 whole gold pieces for peace. I just cant justify that right now. We can get that much gold in pillaging pretty easily. I just hope the price doesnt go up when I reject him. But I do reject him.
Philly spear -> library. And a turn ago, I started Washington on a Hindu Missionary. Spreading our religion and setting up a shrine are both pretty good plans, IMO. That will help a bit with our cash flow problem.
(6) 1270 - That settler, longbow, longbow trio was sent to the two-plot plains hills island in the middle of the board. That will not be allowed on my watch. 2 swords and 4 catapults sally forth from Bangalore to take care of such nonsense and hopefully help us in our peace negotiations. Was able to pillage a town for 20 gold again this turn, almost all of what Gandhi was willing to pay.
(I) Hyberabad founded. Instant 25% defensive bonus. How handy for a deity foe. Guess those catapults will have their work cut out for them!
(7) 1280 - Axeman and war elephant also embark for the middle of the board. Swords and pults start disembarking. Will bombard first and then found, I suppose. Not sure if Ill get to attack on my turns or not.
I pillage for another 35 gold. And drop off an elephant on their ivory. Then our galley sees a caravel with its name on it and boldly flees! A knight will attack that elephant this interterm, probably, but it should help the southern pillagers have peace a bit longer AND might even win to pillage the ivory, causing a happiness hit. Better shot on land than at sea, anyway.
(I) Guess I was wrong. Northern elephant is left alone. But hes kind of stuck where he is, without ship help (or razing Calcutta all on his own, which is a long shot at best!).
(8) 1290 - 14 more gold from pillaging. And that includes cutting a road from the horses, which may help with our knight problem. Hyberabads defense bombarded down to 10% by our noble catapults. Will that be enough to go in next turn? I dunno. Fortune favors the bold, but only the bold who are prepared, too.
And, whoa! Somehow its 1300. I dont know where I missed a turn in there, but . I did. As tempting as it is to play 14 to get us back on track, Im going to stop after 9 and let someone else have the glory (or ignominy) of attacking Hyberabad. I highly recommend razing. Its just not worth the hit to our treasury to keep. Id also suicide two (or even three) catapults in before sending in the swords. Its on a hill, too, which adds to the defense of the longbows. And those highly-promoted swords are valuable. Id bombard once or twice and then attack with the rest of the pults, then the swords, with axemen a back-up, if necessary. Just my $.02, though.
The front:
The galley nearest Boston was headed to Washington to get the Hindu Missionary and spread the faith a bit. Not sure exactly where at this point, but Hyberabad and SilksnStones both are semi-reasonable targets. Of course, were almost as Islamic as we are Hindi at this point, so maybe its not worth trying to spread Hinduism further. We have the Islamic holy city, too. <Shrug> I was just trying to find ways to help our sagging economy (losing gold at 40% science).
Roster:
Arathorn
Mark1031 - Out until 16th (will slot back in when notified of return)
Vol - Up now!
bed_head7 - on deck
grahamiam
Arathorn
ThERat
Deity
lurking:
just wanted to tell you guys you are doing a great job and it's really exciting to lurk this thread
I am wondering whether you will be able to slow Ghandi down to avoid an AC loss
just wanted to tell you guys you are doing a great job and it's really exciting to lurk this thread
I am wondering whether you will be able to slow Ghandi down to avoid an AC loss
Arathorn said:
It seems that this indicates a major AI stupidity. They only consider the base strength, not the true combat odds, so they send out knight rather than pikeman to fight elephant. A same kind of thing is that they attack quechua using archer. It may be possible to seriously exploit this. At least one moral: use your highest strength unit to deter their attack (cavalry vs. rifleman?), or use your lower strength but higher odds unit to lure their attack (elephant vs. knight, quechua vs. archer, immortal vs. longbow, axeman vs. sword, crossbow vs. mace?).
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
@Tarkeel: zoom all the way out, then the leftmost button on the screen changes to look like a circle with 4 orange squares. Click on that button and you get drawing and text tools.
Vol
Sophist
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 349
Alas, I spoke prematurely. 
Arathorn, I cannot find the save in the post nor in the uploads folder.
If Mark1031 comes back and wants his turn, definitely let him have it. Otherwise I'll have to play this tomorrow night (darn, I was excited to smash Hyderabad!)
Arathorn, I cannot find the save in the post nor in the uploads folder.
If Mark1031 comes back and wants his turn, definitely let him have it. Otherwise I'll have to play this tomorrow night (darn, I was excited to smash Hyderabad!)
Save file....
I hate being an idiot.
Sorry for the delay.
Arathorn
Roster:
Arathorn
Mark1031 - Up now! (if he claims in 4 hours)
Vol - on deck (or up if Mark1031 doesn't claim)
bed_head7 - has to wait
grahamiam
We'll let Mark1031 go if he's back. I've not seen him in this thread, so I dunno. If he doesn't claim in a few hours, Vol, go ahead, and we'll slot Mark1031 in after Vol.
Arathorn
I hate being an idiot.
Sorry for the delay.
Arathorn
Roster:
Arathorn
Mark1031 - Up now! (if he claims in 4 hours)
Vol - on deck (or up if Mark1031 doesn't claim)
bed_head7 - has to wait
grahamiam
We'll let Mark1031 go if he's back. I've not seen him in this thread, so I dunno. If he doesn't claim in a few hours, Vol, go ahead, and we'll slot Mark1031 in after Vol.
Arathorn
I'm back and can take it for tomorrow night or the weekend so if Vol wants to switch go ahead. Very nice job guys. I don't see how we catch up in tech if we can't beat them out of Ghandi. We seem to be doing as well as can be expected for what we started with but with Ghandi getting all the wonders we are in no position to catch up. I haven';t looked at the game but I think we will have to raise a major city of his soon. Hyberabad is just small change but doesn't hurt him. Maybe make peace for 10 turns and then come back at him. If we suicide lots of pults maybe we can take out one of his main cities. he seems to be pretty passive on the counter attack of stacks.
Vol
Sophist
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 349
(0) 1300 AD
Wow, 1300 AD and we don't have Alphabet or Archery, and Gandhi won't give either of those ancient techs to us for peace despite having captured two of cities and razed countless tiles.
The empire looks just about as good as it can (except for two 1/0/3 water tiles being worked at Bangalore instead of two 2/0/4 villages). We really lack tiles with more than 2 food in some of our cities (Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Silks 'n' Stones), which really limits what we can do with working high-shield/low-food tiles and creating specialists.
We're very strongly focused on infrastructure, and specifically economy and research, and rightfully so. The military we have now is all we'll have for quite a while, so lets make the best use of it that we can.
Spaceship and Histographic seem to be the only victory conditions to fear for now (I don't believe Gandhi will ever execute a Conquest victory, ridiculously overwhelming forces or not).
As a whole, this war has been very good for us. In the demographics graphs, we have gained significant relative Score, Gold, Production, Food, and Power since taking on the Deity Gandhi. We are now tied with Gandhi in Production! If this is ever an example of the AI using too many cottages!
The Deity AI, on an identical map (mirror), has 435% of our commerce and 310% of our population, but has the same amount of production, and only twice the military. If human ingenuity and tactics could overcome a force twice as large, and technologically superior, I think a Small Lakes Mirror Deity Duel would not be impossible to win.
(1) 1310 AD
Our Elephant north of Calcutta, and trapped, is attacked by two Knights. It defeats the first one easily, but is defeated by the second Knight, after doing significant damage to it.
Karachi finishes a Library. It starts on a Market in 30 turns.
Our force at Hyderabad:
The catapults are only able to take out 4% of the defenses each, so we're going to wait until next turn before mounting the assault.
(2) 1320 AD
New York builds an Aqueduct. I use the extra food (and since we're still at the happiness limit) to make a Scientist instead of working a 2/0/3 ocean tile. The end result is the same, except we get +3 Great People points per turn and don't have unhappy citizens. The city upkeep is 6 gold/turn, and the income in 12 gold/turn. With a Courthouse saving us 50% of the upkeep, and the Market providing 25% of the income, they both provide 3 gold per turn. But the Courthouse is much quicker (being Organized), 9 turns vs. 21 turns.
The defenses of Hyderabad:
With Hyderabad now having no defensive bonuses to bombard, its time to attack:
I promote our 5 XP Catapult to Barrage II (total of +50% collateral damage).
This catapult faces steep odds:
Heading in bravely, it retreats... bravely!
The three defenders are down to 5.4/6.0, 4.6/6.0, and 5.4/6.0, and our catapult gains 1 XP.
The odds are now 5.0 vs. 11.3, as I send in a Barrage I catapult on a sure suicide mission (I don't expect two retreats).
Our catapult is soundly defeated, however the enemies are now down to 4.8/6.0, 4.0/6.0, and 3.8/6.0.
I decide to send in the Combat I Catapult in next, as it has the slightly better odds of 5.5 vs. 9.3. It is also defeated. The defenders are now at 4.3/6.0, 2.2/6.0, and 3.3/6.0.
The last catapult is promoted up to Barrage I and sent in with odds of 5.0 vs. 6.9, and is also defeated. The final defender strengths:
This should be easy clean-up.
Our City Raider III Swordsmen faces up against the City Garrison I Crossbowman (who also gets +50% vs. Melee) with 6.0 vs. 3.7 odds.
Victory is ours.
The City Raider II Swordsmen is the next best battle, facing 6.0 vs. 3.9 against a City Garrison II Longbowman. Victory is had (too a bit more damage than expected, down to 3.1/6.0).
A Combat I Elephant is sent in to finish off the job at 8.8 vs. 4.8 against the City Garrison I Longbowman.
The Elephant wins flawlessly and auto-razes Hyderabad.
At this point we still have four catapults. They are just about completely impotent, but as we just demonstrated, they are not completely worthless. We have some nicely promoted Swordsmen and Elephants, which probably didn't need as much softening of the defenses as we used at Hyderabad.
I decide to load up the Galleys in the next few turns and see if we can't also smash Calcutta, the most lightly defended city we can easily access.
Gandhi refuses to offer any concessions for peace. His best deal is now even peace. I'm not sure if this is a trend (it probably is), but this war has been surprisingly in our favor economically and militarily to stop just yet. We're still not seeing Gunpowder units, and that will truly be the end of any military hopes for us, so I want to keep the possibility open until that point.
Wow, 1300 AD and we don't have Alphabet or Archery, and Gandhi won't give either of those ancient techs to us for peace despite having captured two of cities and razed countless tiles.
The empire looks just about as good as it can (except for two 1/0/3 water tiles being worked at Bangalore instead of two 2/0/4 villages). We really lack tiles with more than 2 food in some of our cities (Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Silks 'n' Stones), which really limits what we can do with working high-shield/low-food tiles and creating specialists.
We're very strongly focused on infrastructure, and specifically economy and research, and rightfully so. The military we have now is all we'll have for quite a while, so lets make the best use of it that we can.
Spaceship and Histographic seem to be the only victory conditions to fear for now (I don't believe Gandhi will ever execute a Conquest victory, ridiculously overwhelming forces or not).
As a whole, this war has been very good for us. In the demographics graphs, we have gained significant relative Score, Gold, Production, Food, and Power since taking on the Deity Gandhi. We are now tied with Gandhi in Production! If this is ever an example of the AI using too many cottages!
The Deity AI, on an identical map (mirror), has 435% of our commerce and 310% of our population, but has the same amount of production, and only twice the military. If human ingenuity and tactics could overcome a force twice as large, and technologically superior, I think a Small Lakes Mirror Deity Duel would not be impossible to win.
(1) 1310 AD
Our Elephant north of Calcutta, and trapped, is attacked by two Knights. It defeats the first one easily, but is defeated by the second Knight, after doing significant damage to it.
Karachi finishes a Library. It starts on a Market in 30 turns.
Our force at Hyderabad:
The catapults are only able to take out 4% of the defenses each, so we're going to wait until next turn before mounting the assault.
(2) 1320 AD
New York builds an Aqueduct. I use the extra food (and since we're still at the happiness limit) to make a Scientist instead of working a 2/0/3 ocean tile. The end result is the same, except we get +3 Great People points per turn and don't have unhappy citizens. The city upkeep is 6 gold/turn, and the income in 12 gold/turn. With a Courthouse saving us 50% of the upkeep, and the Market providing 25% of the income, they both provide 3 gold per turn. But the Courthouse is much quicker (being Organized), 9 turns vs. 21 turns.
The defenses of Hyderabad:
With Hyderabad now having no defensive bonuses to bombard, its time to attack:
I promote our 5 XP Catapult to Barrage II (total of +50% collateral damage).
This catapult faces steep odds:
Heading in bravely, it retreats... bravely!
The three defenders are down to 5.4/6.0, 4.6/6.0, and 5.4/6.0, and our catapult gains 1 XP.
The odds are now 5.0 vs. 11.3, as I send in a Barrage I catapult on a sure suicide mission (I don't expect two retreats).
Our catapult is soundly defeated, however the enemies are now down to 4.8/6.0, 4.0/6.0, and 3.8/6.0.
I decide to send in the Combat I Catapult in next, as it has the slightly better odds of 5.5 vs. 9.3. It is also defeated. The defenders are now at 4.3/6.0, 2.2/6.0, and 3.3/6.0.
The last catapult is promoted up to Barrage I and sent in with odds of 5.0 vs. 6.9, and is also defeated. The final defender strengths:
This should be easy clean-up.
Our City Raider III Swordsmen faces up against the City Garrison I Crossbowman (who also gets +50% vs. Melee) with 6.0 vs. 3.7 odds.
Victory is ours.
The City Raider II Swordsmen is the next best battle, facing 6.0 vs. 3.9 against a City Garrison II Longbowman. Victory is had (too a bit more damage than expected, down to 3.1/6.0).
A Combat I Elephant is sent in to finish off the job at 8.8 vs. 4.8 against the City Garrison I Longbowman.
The Elephant wins flawlessly and auto-razes Hyderabad.
At this point we still have four catapults. They are just about completely impotent, but as we just demonstrated, they are not completely worthless. We have some nicely promoted Swordsmen and Elephants, which probably didn't need as much softening of the defenses as we used at Hyderabad.
I decide to load up the Galleys in the next few turns and see if we can't also smash Calcutta, the most lightly defended city we can easily access.
Gandhi refuses to offer any concessions for peace. His best deal is now even peace. I'm not sure if this is a trend (it probably is), but this war has been surprisingly in our favor economically and militarily to stop just yet. We're still not seeing Gunpowder units, and that will truly be the end of any military hopes for us, so I want to keep the possibility open until that point.
Vol
Sophist
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 349
(3) 1330 AD
I pillage the Horse Pasture at Madras for 7 gold.
I promote the Hyderabad Elephant to Medic to help heal the Catapult and Swordsmen.
(4) 1340 AD
I pillage a Village at Lahore for 15 gold, marking the last pillagable tile on that island.
Socrates (Great Scientist) is born at New York. The options are joining a city (+1 shield, +6 beaker), discovering Compass (would take us 9 turns and 624 beakers to research), and creating an Academy (+4 culture, +50% science). The latter is clearly the best choice. New York produces the most science in our empire (New York - 13, Karachi - 8, Washington - 7), mainly due to its two Scientist specialists (Karachi has one Scientist to prevent growth). 50% of 13 will be at least +6 per turn, and more in the future, so it is better than joining as a Super Specialist.
Thus, we build an Academy in New York.
War Weariness has reached 2 unhappiness per city.
Our force sets sail, and I cross my fingers with hopes of avoiding Galleons.
(5) 1350 AD
We learn Feudalism and enter the Medieval Age. I decide Meditation in 2 turns would be nice for Monasteries (and thus missionaries), and just to get it out of the way quickly.
We could now revolt to Serfdom (+50% workers), but we don't have many worker tasks to do as is.
I use our Hindu missionary to spread Hinduism to Bangalore.
Gandhi seems to take no notice of our seaborne attack force in his waters.
(6) 1360 AD
A Galleon drops off two Longbowmen and a Settler on the ruins of Hyderabad, and ends its turn adjacent to one of our Galleys. Five of our Galleys drop off two units each on the hill south of Calcutta. The lone Galley that's behind ( and threatened by the Galleon), with two Catapults aboard, drops them off temporarily on the hill two tiles west of Madras.
Washington completes a Market. Now here's a weird one: the Parthenon has not been built. I figure Gandhi must have gotten Chemistry (which obsoletes it) before starting it or something. It would take 19 turns in Washington without Marble, and would provide +50% Great People birth rate in all our cities. I decide on one of our really cheap Courthouses in 4 turns instead.
Chicago builds its Courthouse. Market in 38 or Forge in 30? Since this city is already short on health, I choose the Market.
(7) 1370 AD
Yeah, Gandhi just doesn't get warfare. He doesn't attack our stack with either catapult nearby. He sends one Knight, which is defeated by our War Elephant. And his Galleon (empty) heads towards our island of Boston/Bangalore/Karachi, instead of killing one of our six vulnerable Galleys.
Hyderabad has been rebuilt, as Bengal. It's clear taking out junk cities against a Deity opponent gets you nowhere, he can replace them faster than you can recharge to re-raze them.
We learn Meditation. I start on Civil Service in 10, for the Bureaucracy civic that would really help our production and economy.
Catapults begin bombarding Calcutta. They do 10% per shot, and it started at 65%. Here's the forces at Calcutta:
Two more Catapults arrive next turn.
Gandhi left his Combat II Catapult out in the open north of Madras and next to my stack, so I send a Combat I Elephant against it, with 8.8 vs. 6.0 odds. We win, but are damaged to 0.3/8.0, and out of movement. So I put our least experienced Swordsman and Axeman with it to deter the Longbowmen and Pikemen in Madras from attacking.
(8) 1380 AD
Gandhi sends a Catapult (his only one left on the island) against our stack. Our Elephant defeats it, but we do take collateral damage. Thankfully, we have Medics with us. Gandhi also sends out another Knight and he kills a Swordsmen, which is fine by me, as I'm not sure I could have expected that Swordsman to have killed a Knight inside the city. He also moves his Galleon (empty) even further into our territory. I think he's just scouting (he obviously can't realize its a mirror map). And yet another bonehead manuever, Gandhi has promoted the Knight in Calcutta with Pinch (+25% vs. Gunpowder). Deity doesn't make 'em any smarter, it just gives them really huge cheats.
Silks 'n' Stone builds a Library. This gives it much needed culture. I start a Granary in 12, as this city is going to grow very slowly without any food bonus tiles.
(9) 1390 AD
Ok, I don't know why I was so slow in realizing this (probably because Civ3 had no water resources, just don't have the instinct yet). Gandhi's Galleon is of course breaking our fishing nets at New York, just like we did to him long ago. There's really nothing we can do to stop this.
We bombard Calcutta some more and heal up a bit.
I pillage the Horse Pasture at Madras for 7 gold.
I promote the Hyderabad Elephant to Medic to help heal the Catapult and Swordsmen.
(4) 1340 AD
I pillage a Village at Lahore for 15 gold, marking the last pillagable tile on that island.
Socrates (Great Scientist) is born at New York. The options are joining a city (+1 shield, +6 beaker), discovering Compass (would take us 9 turns and 624 beakers to research), and creating an Academy (+4 culture, +50% science). The latter is clearly the best choice. New York produces the most science in our empire (New York - 13, Karachi - 8, Washington - 7), mainly due to its two Scientist specialists (Karachi has one Scientist to prevent growth). 50% of 13 will be at least +6 per turn, and more in the future, so it is better than joining as a Super Specialist.
Thus, we build an Academy in New York.
War Weariness has reached 2 unhappiness per city.
Our force sets sail, and I cross my fingers with hopes of avoiding Galleons.
(5) 1350 AD
We learn Feudalism and enter the Medieval Age. I decide Meditation in 2 turns would be nice for Monasteries (and thus missionaries), and just to get it out of the way quickly.
We could now revolt to Serfdom (+50% workers), but we don't have many worker tasks to do as is.
I use our Hindu missionary to spread Hinduism to Bangalore.
Gandhi seems to take no notice of our seaborne attack force in his waters.
(6) 1360 AD
A Galleon drops off two Longbowmen and a Settler on the ruins of Hyderabad, and ends its turn adjacent to one of our Galleys. Five of our Galleys drop off two units each on the hill south of Calcutta. The lone Galley that's behind ( and threatened by the Galleon), with two Catapults aboard, drops them off temporarily on the hill two tiles west of Madras.
Washington completes a Market. Now here's a weird one: the Parthenon has not been built.
I figure Gandhi must have gotten Chemistry (which obsoletes it) before starting it or something. It would take 19 turns in Washington without Marble, and would provide +50% Great People birth rate in all our cities. I decide on one of our really cheap Courthouses in 4 turns instead.Chicago builds its Courthouse. Market in 38 or Forge in 30? Since this city is already short on health, I choose the Market.
(7) 1370 AD
Yeah, Gandhi just doesn't get warfare. He doesn't attack our stack with either catapult nearby. He sends one Knight, which is defeated by our War Elephant. And his Galleon (empty) heads towards our island of Boston/Bangalore/Karachi, instead of killing one of our six vulnerable Galleys.
Hyderabad has been rebuilt, as Bengal. It's clear taking out junk cities against a Deity opponent gets you nowhere, he can replace them faster than you can recharge to re-raze them.
We learn Meditation. I start on Civil Service in 10, for the Bureaucracy civic that would really help our production and economy.
Catapults begin bombarding Calcutta. They do 10% per shot, and it started at 65%. Here's the forces at Calcutta:
Two more Catapults arrive next turn.
Gandhi left his Combat II Catapult out in the open north of Madras and next to my stack, so I send a Combat I Elephant against it, with 8.8 vs. 6.0 odds. We win, but are damaged to 0.3/8.0, and out of movement. So I put our least experienced Swordsman and Axeman with it to deter the Longbowmen and Pikemen in Madras from attacking.
(8) 1380 AD
Gandhi sends a Catapult (his only one left on the island) against our stack. Our Elephant defeats it, but we do take collateral damage. Thankfully, we have Medics with us. Gandhi also sends out another Knight and he kills a Swordsmen, which is fine by me, as I'm not sure I could have expected that Swordsman to have killed a Knight inside the city. He also moves his Galleon (empty) even further into our territory. I think he's just scouting (he obviously can't realize its a mirror map). And yet another bonehead manuever, Gandhi has promoted the Knight in Calcutta with Pinch (+25% vs. Gunpowder). Deity doesn't make 'em any smarter, it just gives them really huge cheats.
Silks 'n' Stone builds a Library. This gives it much needed culture. I start a Granary in 12, as this city is going to grow very slowly without any food bonus tiles.
(9) 1390 AD
Ok, I don't know why I was so slow in realizing this (probably because Civ3 had no water resources, just don't have the instinct yet). Gandhi's Galleon is of course breaking our fishing nets at New York, just like we did to him long ago. There's really nothing we can do to stop this.
We bombard Calcutta some more and heal up a bit.
