LotR6 - Progressive Paranoia

[ChrTh]

Hey guys,

Was looking at your save, and I noticed a bunch of Entertainers in formerly British cities. Are they there on purpose for score reasons, is there some strategy I'm missing, or is it an accident? Thanks

 

[T-hawk]

Um, to keep the cities from rioting? We were running low luxury tax because our home core cities didn't need it, so better to hire a few English bards than spend money on every city in the empire.

That said I'd guess we acquired a luxury or two in the Korean war and Arathorn didn't remember/bother to adjust the cities for happiness.

 

[Arathorn]

The war weariness with Korea had just ended. I had done NO micromanagement after the war ended, so the entertainers are probably no longer necessary. They were at the beginning of 1355 AD, though!

JMB, with offensive units, I never fortify them in cities, because they "disappear". They heal at exactly the same speed whether they're fortified or not and don't auto-awake from fortify unless they're out of a city. I can never find 'em if/when they're fortified in a city. No biggie, cause I did find them, but I'd appreciate if you didn't fortify any more attackers in cities. Please?

We're way behind in the top of the tree, but I don't think it's a biggie. We can do almost 4-turn research, which will be very helpful.

Arathorn

 

[T-hawk]

Ah. One neat trick to deal with any big nationwide happiness change, for anyone who doesn't know already, is to put the governor on for Manage Citizen Moods in All Cities and then take it off again. That optimizes each city for whatever entertainers it needs; some MM tweaking is usually needed, but that's easier than doing it all manually. Cartouche Bee is to thank for teaching me that.

 

[JMB]

Arathorn,

Thanks for the tip. I thought that troops only healed when they were fortified... In the future, I'll try to remember not to do that.

JMB

 

[Gothmog]

Yup, the first thing I did was notice all the extra slackers and put them to work! I figured it was WW.

I'm pretty busy this weekend and may take a full 72 hours to finish. But I will try to fit it in ASAP.

 

[Gothmog]

Preturn – 1355 AD – Corporation will pump our economy big time. I put lots of slackers back to work. Presumably these were due to war weariness. Income goes up 30 gpt so I crank up science one notch – corp due in 3. Swap a couple builds in former England to courthouse. NY to colosseum. I MM canterbury and Liverpool for WLTKD, Canterbury is currently at +3 spt and Liverpool at +1 spt. I notice that inch’on has a police station, we could use more of those – just need communism first. Actually espionage should be our next research target IMO. It appears that France has no native rubber, they do have infantry though. Mongols lack rubber too, Japs have 1 and the Aztec 3. Two workers join Miami. We need to get our navy down near France.

(IT) Kill mongol Ironclad that comes out of the fog. See a French destroyer.

1360 AD – Rush hoover in NY, library in Poiters. Canterbury in WLTKD +5 spt, Liverpool at +5spt now too!

(IT) – see French destroyer transport pair moving our way. Hoover completes.

1365 AD – Now where are our workers sleeping? I want to mine over some useless irrigation… Ah there they are.

(IT) Japs call up and want to trade Sanitation for Atomic theory. After some consideration I decide that the AI can do it’s own research from now on. French drop off some stuff on the desert isle south of Karabuk (including a settler). Corporation comes in and I go for Nationalism due in 4.

1370 AD – Start Stock exchanges where appropriate (just about everywhere). Start a WLTKD in Aydin.

(IT) – See my first mongols. French call up and want to trade WM for WM + Atomic Theory. Sorry wenchly mo wenchly that’s a no go. France founds a city on the desert isle. Aydin benefits from the WLTKD, Stock exchange now due in 5 rather than 7.

1375 AD – Do some more mining over irrigation, redline mongol ironclad w/arti. Rush library in city that will have overlap with the French desert isle. Transporting units to Poiters.

(IT) – More mongols show up – kill a galley and two ironclads of ours. I need to take better care of our navy. Poiters expands borders.

1380 AD – transporting to Poiters.

1385 AD – Kill two more mongol ironclads.

(IT) – Mongols call up and offer peace straight up. I accept tactlessly. Nationalism comes in and I go for Espionage due in 4 @ +128gpt.

1390 AD – Wall Street started in Edrine. Income now @ +169gpt with more Stock Exchanges completing.

1395 AD – War preparations complete for attack next turn.

(IT) Aztecs demand furs. Arrgh, we want to fight France not you Aztec swine. I tip my hat to good (lucky?) timing from the AI and accept.

1400 AD – War is tactlessly declared on France. Reading falls. I redline and sink a French destroyer. Move troops into position to take Cherbourg next turn. Bomb Cherbourg just for fun.

The Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr6-1400ad.zip

 

[T-hawk]

I'm not sure if wasting time on the Nationalism branch is actually a good idea - I'd take a pass on the Intelligence Agency for now to get tanks 12 turns sooner. Remember we can steal techs with embassies (definitely go for Radio and Flight this way), before the Always War stage. But it probably doesn't make much difference either way.

I see it, though might take close to 48 hours (Tuesday) before I can get to it (this warring will take a while.)

Actually, make that "got it" as I'm making sure to get the save now before the forum crashes again.

 

[Skyfish]

OOOPS



Last time T-Hawk wanted to give me the game in RBP11 where I dont play I was flattered

But now he forgets me and grabs it while it's actually my turn

 

[Gothmog]

Well, it was actually 8 turns to research Nationalism+Espionage, 12 if you include communism (Police stations will benefit our large empire). I though about going for tanks straight up, combustion would be nice too to improve our navy. But Steel and Refining would have taken 6 turns each, that will probably go down to 4 turns with Stock Markets and Wall Street completed (and if another AI gets to them - I'm not sure who has combustion but I don't think the mongols or Japs did at that time). So that saves another 4 turns. Then if we do steal one or more industrial techs we save even more time. So it's really a wash there.
My thinking was that we would be stealing from France for now, not having to risk starting a war we don't want while in our tactless stage.

Does anyone know if the only advantage of Spy's is that they work during wartime? Do the attempts cost less? Are they more likely to succeed?

 

[Arathorn]

AARRGGHHH! I hate situations like this. Especially since T-hawk said he wouldn't play until Tuesday, but then half-heartedly changed his mind. Is he playing or not? T-hawk, can you clarify?

Arathorn

 

[Skyfish]

Hey it's not a problem : we are all very patient aren't we

Especially you Arathorn

 

[T-hawk]

No, I'm not playing yet. I'm just very confused. Too many games with similar rosters. Go ahead, Skyfish.

To Gothmog - the advantage of spies is during wartime that they can investigate cities (not always unimportant) and steal techs. And of course they can do other missions like stealing maps and propaganda, but who ever uses those. We'll want the tech and Agency eventually; I don't think we needed it just yet, but no harm done.

 

[Skyfish]

OK I am early in my turns and am confronted with a difficult situation in the assault agaisnt France I want to hear the teams' input before I go on.

The battles in the French second island is going very well, we are losing almost no units.

However we have a huge problem at sea where the French have loads of destroyers where we have only 2 ironclads and 4 galleons : I can not take the risk of loading up Galleons as they will get shot down by Battleships and destroyers before they get anywhere.
Take a look at the situation :

The French are bombing (with Bombers thus) the ex-korean shore to no end as well.
I believe the forces we already have in that second island can finish up the job (if we dont get too many French transports unloading there...)
My idea is to actually put the Galleons to cover, stop research (Espionnage researched, set to Communism in 4 at +85gpt), build up cash (we have 1650g), steal Combustion (but from whom?) and build up navy before getting on with the war vs France.

Any better ideas ?

 

[Arathorn]

A couple ideas/questions....

How/why did the French beat us to Brest? At the end of my turn, there was a boat with a settler on it that I had ear-marked for that island. That little one-square nightmare is gonna not fall until Marines, which has implications on keeping on French acquisitions, taking peace, etc.

I thought the main French island was close enough to Kirklareli that a galleon could sail from Kirk next to the French island, disgorge its troops (and then die), all in one turn, so that we could land safely, albeit at the cost of a bunch of ships. We would need a large landing force (20+ infantry, 8+ artillery, 10+ sipahi) to really make a dent. An infantry army would be ideal, but... Maybe a bit less if we could land on a mountain, but I don't remember the geography well enough and am work and can't check details. This approach would at least give us the possibility/probability of a beachhead city, even though we might well end up making peace because of Brest and war weariness.

Use artillery on the mainland to counter-bombard. Even though we probably don't have enough ships to effectively sail out too much and finish off wounded ships, they at least return home and give us a respite from the constant bombarding.

Also, set up troops (workers won't do) on the southern areas that can be bombarded. This makes the AI go further north to bombard improvements (it will not bombard troops on an island where it has no troops), giving us more time to hit them with artillery to encourage them to leave.

You *can* fight an effective war against destroyers/battleships with nothing better than frigates and artillery. Believe me, I've done it. It's primarily defensive, but you can do as good as 1:1 kill ratio, if you're careful. Don't fear the big ships too much.

I'd also use some of our aleph-naught workers to be constantly repairing damage, trying to keep enough in each square that's often targetted to re-road it instantly, so that a mobile workforce can come in and do whatever else is needed.

I would not stop research. If we're able to research at 4 turns/tech, I'm very happy. Just keep 'em coming, while the AI has to research across the bottom, where we had a big lead. Steals probably aren't the most economical route at this point, so I'd go with keeping research pretty high. That's just me, though.

Sounds like exciting/fun times!
Arathorn

 

[Gothmog]

@Arathorn: well I thought that settler was a combat settler bound for Poiters. That's where I sent him, didn't see any note (or earmarking) from you about founding on the desert isle. I didn't think about France settling there as they hadn't yet. Once I saw their transport (just after my first full turn) it was too late. Oversight in hindsight. Really I should have just dropped off a spear to prevent landings.

I put enought troops and arti support (along with a combat settler ) in and around Poiters to easilly take the whole island if used wisely (i.e. taking full advantage of the arti and settler). My recolection is that the main French island is close enough that we can transport there in one turn and get back to safety too. Though our troops will not be able to land on a hill or mountain IIRC. I would send in just infantry in the first wave, with maybe just a couple arti. An infantry army would be sweet.

I took out a couple French destroyers on my turns, but they will rule the sea's for now. All we can do is harass them.

As far as research, I'd just check the cost to save cash for a steal vs. the cost to research. If it's better than 1.25 I'd go for the steal. We still need Steel and Refining before combustion and it would be worth a bit extra to get each of those in less than four turns.

 

[T-hawk]

I don't have much to add, save this - a one square island is not necessarily unconquerable until marines. It can be acquired in a peace treaty, and since the city will suck horribly it'll be easy to get. It does mean we have to make peace, wait 20 turns, then eliminate France, though.

 

[Arathorn]

Except we're tactless, so we can't exactly ask for the city in peace talks. And we know the AI won't offer it to get us off their back. They'll come asking for straight-up peace at some point, at which time we can either accept or reject, but no more. Acquiring Brest by diplomacy is not an option for this game....

I suppose we could try propoganda, but I have my doubts as to its cost-effectiveness.

@Gothmog: Sorry I didn't communicate the purpose of that settler better. I knew what I was doing with him and I guess I forgot to pass along that little tidbit. It seemed "obvious" at the time to me, but that's why I'd built that settler. "Obvious" things usually aren't.

Arathorn

 

[Gothmog]

It's obvious to me in Hindsight too. I probably would have realized it given a couple more turns. I was just really focused on setting up Skyfish for war and it's hard to get right into the flow. Just one of those things, we should be able to overcome it .

 

[JMB]

Everyone,

I am losing my computer today (warranty repairs) and won't be able to play if my turn comes up before I get it back. I'll post a note when I get my computer back (I am going to try to keep reading the thread though...); until then, please skip me.

JMB