LotR6 - Progressive Paranoia

Sorry about not providing a more detailed report, but the turns really took a long time, and there were too many little skirmishes, etc. to write about... We have A LOT of troops...

1485 - I attack Cambridge with an elite Sipahi and get a GL. I draft any size 12 city with a full food box.

1490 - Finally, we capture Paris (I redlined all 6 attackers before attacking, but we still lost something like 8-9 Sipahi :eek: ). Sometimes, I think the AI cheats... T-hawk indicated that he redlined many of the attackers in Paris and destroyed their barracks. Well, every unit in the city was at full hit points this round. Has anyone else experienced this before? We recapture Cambridge. We raze Bordeaux.

1495 - We capture Cankiri. We recapture Birmingham.

1500 - The English Isle is in a bit of danger as the Aztecs keep sending a bunch of transports that way... We capture tours.

1505 - Not much.

1510 - We capture Rouen. Otherwise, troop movement...

1515 - We caputure Orleansand get a GL attacking Bescanon. Things are stabilizing right now on the English Isle. We finally learn the secrets of combustion. I turn off research to increase our income for some tech steals in the near future (eg, Radio).

1520 - Use our last GL to rush a destroyer. By accident (I think), the Aztecs completely block our Kirklareli port. We capture Rheims. France is down to 6 cities now... Make that 5 as we capture Strasbourg.

1525 - We capture Poitiers. We capture Grenoble.

1530 - We capture Dijon. France is now down to their 1 tile island, and this turn I managed to destroy its harbor. So, any of their ships that we injure from here on out, shouldn't be able to heal... (Unless the AI cheats...) I am amazed that the French haven't come to us begging for peace yet... I think our next target should be the Aztecs. IBT, what do you know... The French come beggin for peace. I don't dee any reason to continue our war against them (we won't likely be able to take their city for quite awhile), so I accept. The Mongols land a bunch of troops outside Inch'on.

1535 - I think we are going to lose Inch'on this turn. IBT, We lose Inch'on. The Japanese request an audience and offer Sanitation for Electronics. I take it as I am pretty certain all the other AIs have Electronics.

1540 - The French had an MPP with the Mongols and this causes them to redeclare on us.

1545 - IBT, Damn. the Aztecs signs Japan into a military alliance against us. The Japanese take Leeds.

1550 - We retake Leeds. We should be able to retake Inch'on next turn as there is only a wounded cav left in the city. We should also be able to take out the Japanese city on what use to be France's smaller Island. I think I've evened up the turns now, so I'll leave it at that.

I have been trying to get our navy together, but it's been difficult and AI ships keep popping up from out of sight and destroying our ships (when I am trying to get them closer to the action...).

English Isle is getting the crap bombed out of it by things I can't see. As the AI has Mass Production, I am guessing submarines are the cause... I kept the governors that T-hawk hired as I didn't want to bother with them.

We need to start planning our assault on the Aztecs. Towards that end, I have ferried a couple of boatloads of troops over to England's Isle (including a beachhead settler), but it'll probably take the next 10 turns before we are ready to settle there...

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/LOTR6PP1550AD.zip

Have fun Arathorn!

JMB
 
Got it. Will have a chance to make a few comments tomorrow, I think/hope. No way I can play tonight. Hopefully tomorrow.

I think we're in AW sooner than we'd hoped, but maybe it will serve to slow down the AIs some. English Isle may be a major battleground for some years. A beachhead on the Eastern Island (Azteca/Japan/Mongolia) would be nice, but I'm not sure it'll happen on my turns. I'll see.

Arathorn
 
Actually, I forgot to mention this. There was a way to get that 1-tile island: bombard it down to 1 population with land artillery (it's close enough) and Propaganda it. Too late now, though, and it likely wouldn't've been worth the effort anyway.

Paris - I didn't redline all the units in it but I thought I got at least two or three. It might've been regulars that I redlined which would still heal to full health even without a barracks. More likely I misremember the details than a bug in the game, at any rate.

Good turns, all told. Did you recapture all of the French western island? How'd you do it? It was all I could do over there to hold that one fortress against a number of infantry marching up every round. Guess they finally ran out, and there were certainly no more on the way after that.

Naval power is indeed going to be a major headache...
 
T-hawk,

The only city left on the French island is the Japanese one. I can't remember exactly how I did it, but most of it was done just using the 2 Sipahi armies and the artillery you left me (I think I might have shipped over 4 more Sipahi when it looked like the seas were clear. I got the troops over, but couldn't get our galley back...). I think you took out all the troops I had to deal with :thumbsup: and then I got to mop up... ;)

About the healing, you are right, it probably isn't a bug, but I remember other times when I could have sworn the same thing happened... In any case, I am sure it is because I don't pay enough attention to the game and it just seems like all the AI troops heal up... Also, have you ever noticed how sometimes the AI is able to unload troops from a boat and fortify them the same turn? That has happened to me a few times as well...

About propaganda, I doubt I would have had enough money to afford it for most of my turn. We are currently sitting with about 2000 gold in the bank and are making close to 600 gpt. We should probably start researching Mass Prod at a rate > single scientist.

Arathorn,

Something you might want to change in the saved file... I forgot to switch most of our major core cities to hospitals and to rework the tiles to emphasize food. We'll probably only want to do this for our core cities with minimal corruption. Also, it might be worth checking how much raising the lux rate to 20% will cost us. I am pretty sure it will be more than running the entertainers we currently have...

JMB
 
I have felt burned by the baracks thing in the past too but have no hard data. It may be that the turn you destroy a 'racks in their IBT they still heal? I often take a city the same turn or the turn after I destroy a racks anyway.

Yes, we're in AW before we wanted to be and timing is everything. This has the makings of quite a modern war game. Advantage - human.
 
It's just the way the game works. It's not "cheating" any more than the fact that the human always wins wonder "ties" is cheating.

Game order:
1. Human movement and rushes -- the main turn. [At this point, the player destroys a barracks.]
2. AI movement and rushes -- their "main turn" which we never see. [At this point, the AI rushes their barracks or changes production to barracks.]
3. Human production. (Lots of sub-phases here.) ["Scroll-ahead" can allow a human to change some production at this point.]
4. AI production. (Never seen, really. I have no clue if the AI "scrolls ahead" or not, because you can't really see anything between phases 2 and 4.) [At this point, the barracks completes.]
5. Healing occurs. [At this point, the barracks are complete, so the unit(s) heal completely.]

Now, I'm not exactly sure when the years change, but I always think of the player turn as the beginning of the cycle of activity. Note that there's nothing untoward or illegal happening here. The AI simply builds its barracks and gets the benefit of it right away. I've done it myself, but the order of events doesn't work out quite the same way for a human.

This is also why an AI can capture a city and rush a defender before you can counter-attack. Its main phase to capture the city is 2, it rushes the defender then. The defender is produced in phase 4, and is in place before you attack the following phase 1. Not cheating...just the way the game works. Personally, I think the ability to use all my offensive/artillery units every turn before the AI is a bigger advantage than their ability to "react" with production, but YMMV.

Other notes:
Ships heal in a city without a harbor. It just takes longer.
They can rebuild their harbor. It make take a bit, but they probably have some cash to use. Island cities do produce reasonable commerce.

The bombarding of English Isle is almost assuredly due to bombers. I'm relatively certain that you can't even see bombers until you have flight. And I'm POSITIVE that submarines can't bombard, so it is not due to subs.

Emphasize food? When we have ~500 billion slaves just waiting to pump our cities up to size? Not likely. Worker merges, now that's an idea whose time has come, again. Hospitals will be the build of the day when I get the game, believe me.

Modern war advantage? Humans, absolutely. Time crunch, though? Painful. I may well only play 5. The artillery slog, while incredibly effective, is very slow.

My thoughts on my turns (without opening the .sav yet):
- Build hospitals in cities which have squares to use
- Get a naval presence up and running
- Beachhead city, if possible (least likely)
- Protect all our cities

Definitely sounds like the most challenging IA/MA war I've fought in a LONG time.

Arathorn
 
I believe it is bombers as I have seen them on my first turn last time and reported it.
I probably turned the "Animate Battle" Off and that is why you do not see them ;)
 
Ok, I hear you about the bombardment (Skyfish, you are right, it is probably because Animate Battle is off...) and the turn order (I have often wondered how the AI gets another defender in the city on the turn they capture it...).

About our slave workers, I think we might want to ship them over to the English Isle rather than merge them into cities, but I am sure you'll figure out what is best...

JMB
 
OK, just to end the debate:

I loaded the save from the end of my last turn and investigated Paris. Two units were in redline, both veterans. No barracks in the city; in fact no buildings besides hospital. City building a Marine due in 5 turns.

Hit end turn and investigated city again. Two infantry were at 3/4 hit points. So that's the expected result. I chalk it up to JMB not realizing some infantry were already at 3/4 before he started bombarding.
 
Ugh....what a mess.

We are at peace with the Mongols, who will die soon under a worldwide alliance against them, except us. They're even further behind technologically than we are, and they have no rubber. They're SOL, in other words.

I lost track of how many ships I sank -- must've been 100 or so. I killed 3-4 for every destroyer I lost and for a while, I thought I was going to lose the sea battle. Eventually, though, the units started trickling in and I've even tried advancing some. Sorry if they all die. More are in production.

We *HAD* a beachhead by the Aztecs. The Aztecs didn't even attack us there. The Japs, however, took care of it. How many cavalry does it take to kill a fortified infantry army with 16 hps on a hill? I dunno...I lost track around 35 or so. Add in a half-dozen or so tanks, and Death Beach didn't make it. A second pair (maybe should wait to rush a third and/or fourth) of transports and combat settler are almost ready to try again. Note: The Japs also sent probably 60 guerillas/infantry to attack who didn't make it. Take major force.

Major bad luck with one transport. I couldn't really defend the seas between old England Island and Aztecia, but it's short enough that a suicide transport can make the trip. I had a few set up and sent them. SOMEBODY had a sub in the way, killing 4 infantry and 4 sipahi. Sigh. Be warned of that possibility.

Also, the Aztecs and Japs both have amphibious assault and are not afraid to send in multiple transports of marines. Old England was ugly for a while after the Japs made a successful amphib landing. Fortunately, I was able to get it all back under control fairly quickly. Just be very afraid of transports near under-defended cities.

Aztecs made a great landing attempt on the home island. 3 full transports unloaded on the same square -- tanks, infantry, guerillas, and the like. Took a bit of scrounging to find enough units to kill that one off, but I think we're fully safe now.

On the tech front, we now have flight and mass production. Both were pretty recently acquired, as the need to rush units in various locations was fairly high. It's still an ugly world out there.

Inch'on showed a one hp cavalry defending it on top, even though it had MULTIPLE rifle defenders. Was a glue factory for a while, but it's back to Ottoman control. Paris flipped once, but our culture has almost caught France's, so I'm not too worried.

I didn't build Battlefield Medicine. I kept hoping/expecting to see a leader and rush it. No such luck. Gothmog, you may want to consider building it.

Luxes are up to 20% with a number of entertainers still in use. It might be worthwhile to go to 30% and grow some cities more with our still-abundant slave force. Up to Gothmog to decide.

A few core cities built airports and are now working on either fighters or bombers. I'd let these cities provide all our air defense/offense. Coast cities are on destroyers or commercial docks, depending on number of coast/sea squares being worked. We still need MUCHO more navy.

Tanks are only one steal away.... Aztecs, at least, are Modern, though. Japs are probably close, if not there.

Sorry for the random rambling report. It was a long set of turns.

Save file at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr6-1610ad.zip

It's still a scary world out there, people.

Arathorn
 
Wow ! Looks like we got our work cut out...
I'd say we need tanks ASAP or we need to hold "in T-Hawk fashion" until Modern Armor.
If Japs are Modern, we dont want to send transports of Sipahis over there do we ?
 
Looks like Death Beach was still worth it. I'll probably send in another defensive force to help them continue to lose units at a good ratio for us. Navy and Airforce seem to be the call of the hour, and getting us upto MI. We may indeed have to wait untill MA to make serious headway.

Anyway, 'I got it' - and will at least get to look things over and play a turn or two tonight.
 
JMB, I didn't think it was that messy. You had all the major islands, except one city, as Ottoman territories. That made it easier. That one Jap city fell quickly, but the Mongols replaced it before I could get to it.

I've not seen any mech. infantry yet. I know the Aztecs are Modern...not sure about the Japs. But neither is scientific, so they don't have any free techs. And artillery/sipahi are just as effective against infantry now as they were 50 turns ago. The counter-attacking tanks are a bit bigger of a menace than cavalry, but once we get an established beachhead and can airlift troops over, we should be fine.

Tanks would be nice. We're in a position to be able to steal them relatively soon. Our cash supply has dwindled down to just about 1000 again, but we're at almost 500 gpt and have little/no need to rush things at this point. We can do an intermediate steal about every 4 turns.

We have a spies everywhere at this point. Both Japan and the Aztecs are are Communist, though, so it's a bit dicier stealing from them. But I don't think it's worth trying to steal from the French or the Mongols. They just don't have much, if anything, to take.

Another option is to build a bunch of explorers and go pillaging. It might actually work better even once we have tanks, but I'm not familiar enough with the success of that strategy to want to push it. I'd rather just bomb the cities to dust and come in with the troops to raze them.

I've been having "spare" artillery on the main island (which we sometimes have and sometimes don't) bomb Brest of the French, so it's been staying size one with no improvements quite a lot. It's a bit tedious, but I don't want to give even an OCC deity foe any slack.

I really think we're in a strong enough position, as long as we can avoid the :smoke:, that we'll be able to achieve victory before either Japan or the Aztecs are a serious launch threat. Nobody has double our culture, so I'm not worried about a loss that way.

Sipahi are also powerful enough, that even once we have tanks, I'd build a mix of forces and use sipahi where move 3 is needed, to finish off a punch or to take a lightly-defended outlying city or to heal more frequently, while tanks take the main abuse and do the main cracking.

An almost modern-age game that's still not 100% decided! I do like that aspect.

And once again, I'm rambling.

Arathorn
 
OK I looked things over and played almost a full turn.

Looks like were going to take the naval advantage soon, the tide is turning one might say.

It looks like Brest is being allowed to use fully improved tiles on our land, is there a reason these aren't pillaged or otherwise blocked off?

My short term plan is to land just infantry (+1 settler) on the same hill I assume Arathorn founded Death Beach on. Seems to me that the kill ratio is worth it and we have the troops in position. I haven't decided how many full transports to assemble for that move. Is it better to do 2-3 now, or wait and do 4-5 soonish? I'm leaning towards 2-3 now, but that's just my itchy trigger finger talking. Once the mongols are eaten up there will be some mountains available for landings in the north too.

It is strange to see all the goveners, I don't trust them. There are cities I see that could use better handling but I haven't gotten to go through them yet.

Heh, and you thought you were rambling Arathorn.

I'll probably have to take my full 72 hours for this one, and may not get to play 10 anyway. I've got some buisness to take care of in the evenings this week, RL and all.
 
Brest: Well, there's a reason, but probably not a good one. The reason is I didn't think to change it. Is stupidity/laziness a good reason or not?

Transports now or later: Dunno. Ideally, I would do 3 in a turn or two, so that Japanese forces might be in the north fighting Mongolia, as they just recently declared.

Governors: I don't trust them either. Had riots even with them on. But I couldn't make myself spend the time to turn them off and try to keep everything straight. I'm not completely convinced we need to be squeezing out every nickle and dime possible at this point.

Rambling: At least you stopped after a few short paragraphs. I tend to go on and on and on and on and on..... :)

Time: I'd rather see 5 turns in 24 than 8 in 72, if you get my drift. Up to you, of course!

Arathorn
 
Good call on the Japs, I'll give it a couple turns should be able to round up 4 full transports by then (may need an airstrip for transport to the english isle).

I get it, but I think Thursday night will be my best play opportunity. We'll see.

I assume everyone wants a domination victory? Because we could still go for Space at this point.
 
I'd say let's have learned our lesson from LotR5 and not try to catch/keep up in tech for the ship launch. Granted, we aren't nearly as far behind as in that game, but we're a ways away from parity, and the best way to stop enemy research is to bonk some heads and that puts us on the track to domination anyway. :hammer:
 
Preturn – wake some arti on the English isle and bomb some Aztec navy.

(IT) Aztec navy emerges from Taejon and kills 1 destroyer and redlines another, but the RNG is with us and we take down 2 destroyers and a battleship, plus we redline another. Then a battleship/transport pair head out to our mainland.

(1) 1615 – Sink Aztec battleship/transport. Create a couple airfields and start lifting infantry to the English isle. I also bomb Brest’s improved squares on our homeland and cover with a shield and a conscript infantry.

(IT) Japan and the Aztecs sign a MA vs. the Mongols. Japan declares war. I lose some navy to fog attacks. France has a destroyer, which kills one of ours too.

(2) 1620 – Move and organize for landing next turn.

(IT) The Japs make a landing on the small French isle, 2 marines, 1 guerilla, 1 infantry, and 7 cav.

(3) 1625 – Arrgh, the Aztec have a stack o’ arti sitting on Death hill. So I redirect to another spot on a hill, but pretty close to Richmond. I land 18 infantry, 5 arti and 1 settler. I kill some navy, 2 battleships, 2 destroyers, and two full transports – no losses.

(IT) Aztec tank army attacks our landing along with a couple other tanks and cav. Jems by JMB riots despite being on governor. A source of Coal exhausts leaving us one. The French destroyer strikes again killing one of ours but leaving its self-vulnerable.

(4) 1630 – Still 16 infantry at landing spot, found Bunker Hill and rush walls. Kill French destroyer, kill off remnants of Japan assault on French isle. Steal a tech from the Aztec… success! Take MT and swap to tank production.

(IT) – See Aztec MI, tanks roll in, complete wall. Lose one infantry at Bunker Hill but kill a number of attackers.

(5) 1635 – Kill 4 more Aztec battleships and another full transport w/no losses. Siaphi and more arti to Bunker Hill.

(IT) – Lose 1 destroyer and 1 transport to sub and battleship.

(6) 1640 – 6 tanks now at Bunker Hill. Kill more enemy navy, 3 destroyers, 1 battleship and a full transport. Rush Library.

(7) 1645 – Schralp more enemy navy. Am worried about the possibility of Bunker Hill flipping so I decide to try and raze Richmond. I bomb it down below size 12 then attack. I raze it at a cost of 4 tanks (two retreats) and 1 Siaphi.

(IT) The Aztec call up and want peace straight up… no. Their counter is 1 tank and 1 cav.

(8) 1650 – Our 2 tank heroes make it home. I bomb and kill 6 cav, 1 infantry a tank and 2 battleships near Bunker Hill. Rush ‘racks. Only Mongol city is now on the French isle.

(9) 1655 – Bomb and kill 4 tanks and raze Tlalmanalco, which was a size 1 city founded after Bunker Hill and was keeping our borders from expanding to the SE. Kill 2 MI in the process at the cost of 1 tank. Flip risk now minimal. GL fishing w/Siaphi pays off and I rush Battlefield Medicine @ Bunker Hill.

(IT) – Bad RNG round and we lose a couple infantry.

(10) – Kill 2 MI, 4 tank, 3 cav, 2 infantry, 2 battleship, 1 carrier and the Aztec tank army outside Bunker Hill and get another GL. Going to send him back to English isle (in retrospect I could have rushed an airport in Bunker Hill but oh well). Do another tech steal from Aztec, succeed again and take Radio. Draft a few infantry to send vets to English isle and they come out as MI, I send over the conscripts. I realize we need a harbor to upgrade our infantry @ Bunker Hill.

Notes: I leave a huge Tank force in Bunker Hill have fun! I think the last couple turns were the Japan and Aztec forces returning from Mongolia so they are almost gassed. Seems they have moved their bombers over there too so I have a few fighters in production. Advancing should be no problem. The GL is in the transport @ Birmingham. Unload him before going back to Aztecland or bring him back to rush an airport. I guess we got computers as our optional tech since I drafted MI but I didn’t look as I was wrapping it up. I guess the GL could rush SETI then? Your choice. I’ve got it set up so one transport is in Birmingham and one next to Bunker Hill and they swap each turn. We can lift 6 units to the English isle every turn and a transport will complete out of London in a couple turns to supplement that.

The Save.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr6-1660ad.zip
 
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