Lots of prisoners in Guantanamo aren't terrorists! Imagine that!

[Erik Mesoy]

When you ask who else can, I would say anyone. All the infromation they are useing is public. Why wouldn't someone do a independent study?

This appears contradictory to your claim that the study is not credible. Using the publicly available information, please demonstrate one error or misrepresentation in the lists above, or please withdraw your accusation that the study is not credible due to the people performing it.

Secondly, if we assume that the study is not credible and all the information is publicly available, I would have expected an opposition group to do a counterstudy. Since the linked PDF came out early August, there has been plenty of time. What I've seen is mostly "they're evul terrists and we must detain them".

 

[woody60707]

This appears contradictory to your claim that the study is not credible. Using the publicly available information, please demonstrate one error or misrepresentation in the lists above, or please withdraw your accusation that the study is not credible due to the people performing it.

Secondly, if we assume that the study is not credible and all the information is publicly available, I would have expected an opposition group to do a counterstudy. Since the linked PDF came out early August, there has been plenty of time. What I've seen is mostly "they're evul terrists and we must detain them".

To start off, what you are asking seems to be the same thing i was asking for in my last post.

Now, I ask, was this peer reviewed or published in a peer reviewed journal? That’s what is really needed to give credibility to this report.

Now i can not peer review this paper, It's out side my field. but i do not i blindly trust everything that this paper says ethier. What is so unreasonable with asking that if this is a published report? And in what journal was this in?

You asked why isn't their a counterstudy. All i asked for was a independent study. This isn't about picking sides, no study should ever be about picking side. The thing is the people who run this study already picked a side, and that is another reason why i am questing this study.

 

[Norlamand]

Yes, that's a logical and reasoned argument backed up with evidence

Unfortunatley not born out by the evidence. There are any number of university published reports and studies that are quickly shown to be complete bunk put out by hacks with an agenda.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

I helped put a guy in Gitmo. I hope he <is a really cool guy>, even with his daily medical checks and three meals, religious freedoms. I know, if the shoe were on the other foot I would have my head sawed off slowly.

That's ok though, CNN will even air the footage

Moderator Action: No need to resort to such statements. Removed.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[HawkeyeGS]

They are not terrorists until they have been convicted of being one in a fair trial.

 

[Peri]

GWB said all he knew about these people were that they were bad men. If the President says they are guilty why bother with courts and stuff. After all he knows best. Laws are just for Liberals I suppose.

 

[bathsheba666]

I think the gaurds who are under constant threat and at times attack by the muslim jihadis prisoners would disagree.

So their reasoning would be as flawed as yours.
So?

 

[Norlamand]

They are not terrorists until they have been convicted of being one in a fair trial.

Well I feel reassured to know that bin Laden, Al -Zawahiri, Al-Zarqawi and the rest were/are not terrorists.

 

[malclave]

I'll try to read the whole study soon, but I found the summary's use of numbers interesting. For example:

2. Only 8% of the detainees were characterized as al Qaeda fighters. Of the remaining detainees, 40% have no definitive connection with al Qaeda at all and 18% are have no definitive affiliation with either al Qaeda or the Taliban.

A casual read of the second sentence might lead one to believe that 58% of the detainees were not associated with al Qaeda or the Taliban.

I'm also interested in the term "al Qaeda fighters"... I hope it's a defined term in the report. But from that item in the summary, the breakdown of detainees at the time of data collection appears to be:

60% connected definitively with al Qaeda.
22% connected definitively with the Taliban but not al Qaeda.
18% not connected definitively with either of those two specific groups.

Hopefully, the second report will follow up on detainees that were repatriated, or who are being held at Guantanamo because other countres refuse repatriation (or it would not be safe for their return).

 

[Riffraff]

I'll try to read the whole study soon, but I found the summary's use of numbers interesting. For example:



A casual read of the second sentence might lead one to believe that 58% of the detainees were not associated with al Qaeda or the Taliban.

I'm also interested in the term "al Qaeda fighters"... I hope it's a defined term in the report. But from that item in the summary, the breakdown of detainees at the time of data collection appears to be:

60% connected definitively with al Qaeda.
22% connected definitively with the Taliban but not al Qaeda.
18% not connected definitively with either of those two specific groups.

Hopefully, the second report will follow up on detainees that were repatriated, or who are being held at Guantanamo because other countres refuse repatriation (or it would not be safe for their return).

wow thats some awful maths/logic you just showed there..

 

[amadeus]

In other news, F. Lee Bailey today said that O.J. Simpson was not guilty of murdering Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Of course they're not terrorists, they're political prisoners.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

" You honor... all my client had were some rpg's, a few 155mm shells, all sorts of little electrical tools, some cellphones, a terrorist manual and a picture of OBL on his wall... can the goverment come up with something better? Oh and who dosen't own a labtop and so what it was logged into the Jihad.net singles chat? "

 

[pholkhero]

Can anybody point to any convinctions from Gitmo??

and how many people have been released from there sans charges???

boy, those bush boys are great for terrorist recruitment

 

[Sidhe]

In other news, F. Lee Bailey today said that O.J. Simpson was not guilty of murdering Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman.

At least O.J. had a trial.

Why try to explain morality to fools who believe that only there country has some morality? And everyone else is somehow wrong by default? It's hypocrisy of the finest order, and no matter how they try to play their cards, there just lying in a bed of immorality.

Cruel and unusual punishment, I think being innocent before being proven guilty makes it both cruel and unusual, and here we thought unusual wasn't a necessary adverb in that constitutional point. Let's leave and form a country that has better morals than Europe and then devoid ourselves of respect by ignoring them.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[Shylock]

I think the gaurds who are under constant threat and at times attack by the muslim jihadis prisoners would disagree.

Most of whom don't really belong there to begin with.

 

[amadeus]

At least O.J. had a trial.

O.J. didn't plan on hijacking an airplane.

 

[malclave]

wow thats some awful maths/logic you just showed there..

You're right. I apologize.

Looking again at the statement

2. Only 8% of the detainees were characterized as al Qaeda fighters. Of the remaining detainees, 40% have no definitive connection with al Qaeda at all and 18% are have no definitive affiliation with either al Qaeda or the Taliban.

the numbers actually work out to:

62.2% al Qaeda (plus possibly affiliated with another group?)
(8% "al Qaeda fighters")
(54.2% "definitive connection" with al Qaeda)
21.24% "definitive affiliation" with the Taliban but NOT al Qaeda
16.56% no "definitive" connection with either group

I had originally taken the 40% and 18% numbers as percentages of the total, rather than of the 92% who were not "al Qaeda fighters". I offer no excse for my error... thanks for pointing out, though, that a lower percentage than what I thought had not been "definitively" linked to either of those two groups.

 

[HawkeyeGS]

Well I feel reassured to know that bin Laden, Al -Zawahiri, Al-Zarqawi and the rest were/are not terrorists.

Bin Laden has had a trial. He didn't attend (I guess he had prior engagements). I can't fully vouch for the fairness of his trial but assuming it was (it was back when we still believed in fair trials) that means the verdict (guilty) sticks. There may have been some shady witnesses and hearsay evidence but he hasn't made any attempt to appeal. I am not sure if the same amount of due process has been attributed to the Als.

The presumption of innocence is one of the most important and basic principals of most democratic and free nations including the US. If you want accusation to be proof you would be better off under a totalitarian regime. Stick around though you just never know what your type of attitude could create.

 

[zenspiderz]

Lots of prisoners in Guantanamo aren't terrorists! Imagine that!

No? Well we just have a give them a dose good ol' fashioned CIA mk-ultra trauma based mind control until these peasent goat herders are ready to blow themselves up for the voices in their head...

cough .. unabomber .. cough