love CIv 5 but slight Rant about steam please read and tell me what u think

[bean5671]

Hello all
I need to rant somewhere about this been banned from the steam forums all because I asked a question

my question
I work from home in a very sensitive industry. My employer is a very large R@D company (I just gave you the name if u know the joke) I am working on a contract for a certain agency so my home network is very tightly controlled, the equiptment ie routers and hardware firewalls are not even mine I can not touch them even though they are in my house, I have one work machine and 4 other family pcs my household is myself and 3 boys oldest is 15
now I can not use steam not at all, I have asked and are not allowed to open the ports it needs so is there anyway for me to make the copies of CIV 5 and homefront that my oldest boy purchased from Gamestop work without steam?


this question got me the first ban from the steam forums so I created another account and asked why I was banned they said I was advocating piracy???

I then asked how is it piracy if I paid for the games (I now have them working without steam btw took my all of 2 hours I have access to some great tools)
they just banned me agian so I called THQ and 2k directly and ask them about this issue and they both said I was pirateing the games . WTH how can I be pirateing something I paid for !!!!!

I love CIV games and have a been on this site a ton in the past since CIV II I had to create a a new name because I forgot the old password and the email it went to does not exist anymore so wanted the to see what you guys think of this

I have the receipts for the games they will not work on my network with the steamworks component so I just never installed the steamworks component really I removed it from both games before I create the new installer. I never even create a steam account so How am I breaking the steam EULA for a tool that has never been on my machine

AM I pirating or just making something I paid for work on my system
I did a quick search and found most steam threads where closed
as I realy do not wish to start a flame war please mods just let me know what I did wrong in this post if anything

thank you a fed up consumer

 

[Save_Ferris]

Hate Steam? Go to the back of the line. I've had my account locked out, it sucked. But I'd consult 2K or Steam about this.

 

[KahunaGod]

Sounds like an average day for an average Steam customer. God I hate those people.

IMO, you did nothing wrong. You asked a technical support question from a company that sold you a product and they then banned you, so you cannot ever use the product. Basicly, I call that fraud. I am waiting for the day when the inevitable class-action lawsuit shuts Steam down. I will throw a party.

 

[Charybdis]

Steam is their DRM, loosely, avoiding DRM or breaking it, regardless of paying for it or not could be considered piracy. Since to play a game you generally need toagree to whatever software agreement comes with it to get it to open, and part of that would state "You agree not to modify this in certain areas blah blah blah" I'm sure their lawyers covered it.

In the end though, you're making something you paid for work. Don't expect updates to it or to be able to play multiplayer. But you're not profiteering off it, so unless you specifically give them identifying details and their lawyers are seriously bored and evil, nothing will come of it. I wouldn't go around calling them, they won't care. Thousands of people have been venting about steam, and while it's not perfect it's less intrusive than some so yeah.

When you finish your contract maybe you'll be able to open up the ports for steam.

Could always just get another wireless connection for the laptops to log into to utilise the steam component if you want *shrug*.

 

[zatarra09]

Um the solution here is easy.

I had the same situation when I was working as a network engineer in the past.

First, if the network is so tight and you arent allowed to touch it, why in the heck would your personal machines even be connected to this network? Thats 100% wrong.

Second, if you want personal internet, get another connection. Let the company pay for the first one, you pay for the 2nd one. Problem solved and you would avoid any liability on the company network.

All cable/dsl companies can setup dual lines, commercial/residential for you.
Steam isnt the enemy here, using that secure network for unsecure recreation is.

 

[Bibor]

This game consists of:
- actual game installed on your computer
- Steam DRM

You can't buy one without the other. If you wonder why, there's a very, very, very long list of people getting, 50, 30 or barely 10% of what they should be getting for their product.

If you don't like it - don't buy games from Steam. Easy as that.

Is the current DRM properly legally set up and why Steam has no decent competitor - these are completely separate topics.

 

[bean5671]

Um the solution here is easy.

I had the same situation when I was working as a network engineer in the past.

First, if the network is so tight and you arent allowed to touch it, why in the heck would your personal machines even be connected to this network? Thats 100% wrong.

Second, if you want personal internet, get another connection. Let the company pay for the first one, you pay for the 2nd one. Problem solved and you would avoid any liability on the company network.

All cable/dsl companies can setup dual lines, commercial/residential for you.
Steam isnt the enemy here, using that secure network for unsecure recreation is.

you dont understand ok my work network consists of one PC it is separate from my home network which is 4 pcs they can not see each other and are not on the same router
however the firewalls are covering everything entering my home period my traffic can not be monitored by anyone else but the US govt
the main router and firewalls are locked in a box outside my home. I can not use clear 4g or a wireless connection I am not even allowed my own cell phone

I even received a call about these posts (really I did)
and I should not have to jump through hoops to get a product to work CIV 5 is a single player game why does it require the internet?

 

[bean5671]

This game consists of:
- actual game installed on your computer
- Steam DRM

You can't buy one without the other. If you wonder why, there's a very, very, very long list of people getting, 50, 30 or barely 10% of what they should be getting for their product.

If you don't like it - don't buy games from Steam. Easy as that.

Is the current DRM properly legally set up and why Steam has no decent competitor - these are completely separate topics.

I did not buy it my kid did I tried to return it
IF they will not take it back I have no recourse but modify it so it works with my system if the DRM does not work for me then give me my money back

OH BTW I have it totally patched and can keep it up to date if I so wish without steam (well I need someone who has steam to tell me when the files are avb)

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: Moved to tech support.

shortly at the topic: I don't see anything wrong here. The circumstances are just bad.

So, what to do here...you said, you don't have control over the firewalls, but over the computers themself you have, right?
Not sure if it works, but did you try to use a proxy service like Tor?
I think the ports should there not be a problem, because you can pump every kind of traffic through Tor.
I would not suggest that you update it this way. Rather go to a friend, update it there, back it up to a USB drive, go home, copy the backup and let the DRM verify the validity in this way, but that should be enough to solve the problem, i guess.

 

[zatarra09]

you dont understand ok my work network consists of one PC it is separate from my home network which is 4 pcs they can not see each other and are not on the same router
however the firewalls are covering everything entering my home period my traffic can not be monitored by anyone else but the US govtthe main router and firewalls are locked in a box outside my home. I can not use clear 4g or a wireless connection I am not even allowed my own cell phone

I even received a call about these posts (really I did)
and I should not have to jump through hoops to get a product to work CIV 5 is a single player game why does it require the internet?

Ok i dont buy this now... its rediculous.. For note, I work for the us govt also. You are full of crap here. Unless you are a prisoner not of your own free will, you're not laying out the truth here.
If its "your house" you CAN purchase your OWN internet connection which has NOTHING to do with their equipment (firewall,router,whatever) at all.
And the bit about not being allowed your own cellphone... come on now, in your own home. really... You watch too many movies

Also you mention, "my work network consists of one PC it is separate from my home network ". You are NOT separate if the firewall routes your home PC traffic. Separate them.

 

[bean5671]

Ok i dont buy this now... its rediculous.. For note, I work for the us govt also. You are full of crap here. Unless you are a prisoner not of your own free will, you're not laying out the truth here.
If its "your house" you CAN purchase your OWN internet connection which has NOTHING to do with their equipment (firewall,router,whatever) at all.
And the bit about not being allowed your own cellphone... come on now, in your own home. really... You watch too many movies

Also you mention, "my work network consists of one PC it is separate from my home network ". You are NOT separate if the firewall routes your home PC traffic. Separate them.

look I do not work for the govt I work for RAND
I can not open the ports, I can not use EA download manager either or any of that type of DRM right now
I am telling you the truth I can not make any changes to the equiptment and I can not have any unmonitored outside connections. No I am not in prison its just the data I am working with, when my part of the contract is over the equiptment will be removed its the price i pay for my job at this time.
still I should have a choice to use steam or not to heck I would rather it use Securom instead that would work for me
I have a cell phone it just theirs under their contract and they can monitor it I dont have a home phone either they will allow me one but it will be their phone NO outside connections not approved period, not hard to understand. this has never been a problem before I have done this twice before but my kids where younger and my wife was around
the games where not so restrictive before I would have returned it if I could but I could not so if the drm is stopping the game from working what else can I do?

thanks guys you can close thread as I will not be back for awhile
I just needed to rant and get it off my chest it ticked me off for some reason and I wanted to talk about it nothing bad about Civ or its devs just the lack of choice I think is wrong

 

[timtofly]

Sounds like playing or not playing V is also part of the price you pay for the job you do. Sounds like they have a DRM scheme that not even the Government can abuse.

 

[Morphead]

I believe that people today are too freely giving up their right to private property. If you buy a game is it unreasonable to expect to also play the game indefinitely as you see fit on any computer that is capable of playing it. It is ridiculous to say you can only use the product in a certain way.

This whole idea of having to register your products over the internet or by phone is sleazy to say the least. Take Windows Vista for example. the Cd key can be used six times i believe. Is it too much to expect that if I by windows vista for 300 dollars I can use that product for as long as i want, on as many different computers as i want? What happens in 10 years when i want to play around on an old computer? I slap my windows disk in that i purchased and install it, in order to use that computer i have to call Microsoft and they refuse to activate it because they no longer support Vista? Its the same as stealing in my opinion.

You will be happy to know that modifying your game for your own personal use is not a crime at all. Texas instruments instruments had a case go to the supreme court, trying to stop people from making and sharing their own apps for the TI graphing calculators. To make an app for the calculator, some proprietary DRM had to be circumvented in order to program the memory on the calculator. The supreme court decided that it is not unreasonable to modify and use a product you purchased as you see fit.

There have been other cases I believe involving securom and other DRM companies. The courts have been consistent in saying that software you purchase can be used as you see fit. They have also been consistent in stating that those legal notices that you see before you install software are not binding contracts.

Lets face it DRM dosen't work it never has and it never will. Look at assassins creed 2 and its impenetrable always connected DRM. It was circumvent on release day.to say that steam offers any form of protection against copying is laughable.

I may buy a game that has DRM but I don't like it and will try to avoid doing so. I will never support an ineffectual product that does nothing but add cost and hassle to the software.

 

[timtofly]

I believe that people today are too freely giving up their right to private property. If you buy a game is it unreasonable to expect to also play the game indefinitely as you see fit on any computer that is capable of playing it. It is ridiculous to say you can only use the product in a certain way.

This whole idea of having to register your products over the internet or by phone is sleazy to say the least. Take Windows Vista for example. the Cd key can be used six times i believe. Is it too much to expect that if I by windows vista for 300 dollars I can use that product for as long as i want, on as many different computers as i want? What happens in 10 years when i want to play around on an old computer? I slap my windows disk in that i purchased and install it, in order to use that computer i have to call Microsoft and they refuse to activate it because they no longer support Vista? Its the same as stealing in my opinion.

You will be happy to know that modifying your game for you own personal use is not a crime at all. Texas instruments instruments had a case go to the supreme court trying to stop people from making and sharing their own apps for the TI graphing calculators. To make an app for the calculator, some proprietary DRM had to be circumvented in order to program the memory on the calculator. The supreme court decided that it is not unreasonable to modify and use a product you purchased as you see fit.

There have been other cases I believe involving securom and other DRM companies. The courts have been consistent in saying that software you purchase can be used as you see fit. They have also been consistent in stating that those legal notices that you see before you install software are not binding contracts.

Lets face it DRM dosen't work it never has and it never will. Look at assassins creed 2 and its impenetrable always connected DRM. It was circumvent on release day.to say that steam offers any form of protection against copying is laughable.

I may buy a game that has DRM but I don't like it and will try to avoid doing so. I will never support an ineffectual product that does nothing but add cost and hassle to the software.

The only problem with most of what you said is: todays generations are being subconsciously led to believe that they do not need private property. Everything is in the clouds. This is what you are ranting and raving about. While steam may be a hassle, you can take the game with you wherever you go, because it is always online for you. You are right though, it probably has nothing to do with DRM.

 

[Shurdus]

I lolled at the notion that these things are done subconsciously. These things are not shady at all, since you have all the info you need. There is a license and if you accept, you agree to being limited to a certain number of installs. Seems fair to me, certain products come with restrictions. Software is one of those products. Because it is so easy to reverse engineer certain products, the people who made it have to take precautions to protect intellectual propert. It is not something that is done 'because the man can limit you', but there is so much at stake behind the screen that these companies have to step up and take action. It sucks, but that is how it is. No use screaming bloody murder about it.

 

[Robert_Marshall]

I hate Steam. The reason why they would ban you though is easy. You already know this though. You bought a license. The license requires Steam. I hate it, I use it for Civ5 as the only other option is to not play. Unfortunately, right now Steam all of a sudden (recent Steam patch) wont start Civ5 for me. Just about any other franchise and I would not even have bothered. I sure hope the trend toward this type of copy protection does not last. I am all for protecting intellectual property, but this is too much trouble for me at least.

 

[timtofly]

I hate Steam. The reason why they would ban you though is easy. You already know this though. You bought a license. The license requires Steam. I hate it, I use it for Civ5 as the only other option is to not play. Unfortunately, right now Steam all of a sudden (recent Steam patch) wont start Civ5 for me. Just about any other franchise and I would not even have bothered. I sure hope the trend toward this type of copy protection does not last. I am all for protecting intellectual property, but this is too much trouble for me at least.

I have found that for some reason everytime there is an update or I reload the game too often, the local files get corrupted and need to be re-validated. While I agree this is a steam related issue and really sucks, that is the choice 2K made and it seems the game was not designed for this. Now that opinion is based on the fact that 2k made the steam announcment 4 months before release. It seems that if steam were involved before hand and the game was coded for steam from the beginning, we would not have this problem.


I have a below system computer and found that validating local files has "fixed" even the strangest of graphical problems and even the locking up on huge maps. Yes it can sometimes be very time consuming, due to the fact that is has taken between 88 and 122 times to get things "straightened" out. I miss the days before games were pirated and companies made legal purchasers jump through hoops, but the anger and rants should be towards the pirates, not the companies that make the money, but that is another topic altogether.

 

[mattcrwi]

Here's a solution:

Take your computer to a friend/relatives house. Validate your install. Go into offline mode. Play ciV forever.

This is probably against the government rules though. I've never heard of a government contractor working out of their home though.