ls612's C2C Units
- Thread starter ls612
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Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Also shouldn't the upgrade requirements be on the the Town Watch line of buildings rather than the barracks? These days I don't build the barracks or garrison in any but my military cities.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
There is already a Police Academy national wonder.
The main reason the combat promotion requirements were added was that people built the police units in cities with a lot of military instructors so they started with a lot of policing promotions right away which was too strong.
So both of your suggestions need to be implemented at the same time and they also need to be prevented from getting the military instructor XP right away.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Not all units get XP from military instructors, spies for example. I think the hover over says they will but they don't.
And, the Civilian units should still be able to take the Combat promotions, so I don't see what the issue is.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I don't think they SHOULD be able to get the Combat promos. I suggest we make the Military instructors only give xp to Combatant Combat Class. Then we give that combat class to all Military Trained units that should have access to the Combat promo line.
We took the Combat line off of Air units a while back... would make sense that a Military instructor wouldn't benefit them either (and would help with balance... in my last game I had to leave them all glowing as my only last option was Kamikaze since I'd been able to exceed the amount of promos they had access to.)
And why should a military instructor benefit a police force? Two different kinds of trainings entirely. And police aren't generally trained for warfare but rather situational combats that could be better represented by a line of their own.
Furthermore, we're not talking about just police here. It seems to me that Canines could also go without the Combat Promotion and all the benefits from military instructors (they get a lot from elsewhere and could use more along those lines) and they have a great array of promos of their own. Healers never use all that XP from Military Instructors either - and they don't gain access to Combat promos anyhow.
In short, it would make our lives easier to define all militarily trained units as Combatants and let them be those that gain access to the Combat line promos.
We took the Combat line off of Air units a while back... would make sense that a Military instructor wouldn't benefit them either (and would help with balance... in my last game I had to leave them all glowing as my only last option was Kamikaze since I'd been able to exceed the amount of promos they had access to.)
And why should a military instructor benefit a police force? Two different kinds of trainings entirely. And police aren't generally trained for warfare but rather situational combats that could be better represented by a line of their own.
Furthermore, we're not talking about just police here. It seems to me that Canines could also go without the Combat Promotion and all the benefits from military instructors (they get a lot from elsewhere and could use more along those lines) and they have a great array of promos of their own. Healers never use all that XP from Military Instructors either - and they don't gain access to Combat promos anyhow.
In short, it would make our lives easier to define all militarily trained units as Combatants and let them be those that gain access to the Combat line promos.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I only use the new canine promotions for my canines now.
Currently Health care units can't access the paramedic line of promotions. This seems a bit strange.
We could have other Great Specialists give XP to their professions. Doctors give XP to Health Care Units, Spies to diplomat and spy units and Statesmen to Lawyers and diplomats.
Currently Health care units can't access the paramedic line of promotions. This seems a bit strange.
We could have other Great Specialists give XP to their professions. Doctors give XP to Health Care Units, Spies to diplomat and spy units and Statesmen to Lawyers and diplomats.
Nimek
Emperor
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- Jul 7, 2010
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@DH
Because you mention about it I will add my 2
I think that specialist should give XP for their pomotion class (we have mod component for that)
1 scientist +XP for genetic, clone units (reperest better abilities to build that kind of units)
2 engineers +XP for mechanized units - represent better abilities to developing and construction of them
3 spy - XP for criminlal units
Because you mention about it I will add my 2
I think that specialist should give XP for their pomotion class (we have mod component for that)
1 scientist +XP for genetic, clone units (reperest better abilities to build that kind of units)
2 engineers +XP for mechanized units - represent better abilities to developing and construction of them
3 spy - XP for criminlal units
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Sounds very reasonable to me?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
@DH
Because you mention about it I will add my 2
I think that specialist should give XP for their pomotion class (we have mod component for that)
1 scientist +XP for genetic, clone units (reperest better abilities to build that kind of units)
2 engineers +XP for mechanized units - represent better abilities to developing and construction of them
3 spy - XP for criminlal units
Holy cow... that's way more than I'd conceived of so far but wicked cool ideas nevertheless!
Great pinging off each other going on here!
Maybe we need animal trainer specialists? A great Animal Trainer could be used to auto learn domestication techs, be uniquely capable of adding some of those alternative animal rider buildings (without needing direct access to that animal perhaps... and being able to break the one civ with access limit somehow)
There is one simple reason why normal specialists should not give XP to units: It promotes tedious gameplay as the optimal strategy is to move as much population as you can to the respective specialist in the turn a unit finishes construction and back to their normal position afterwards.@DH
Because you mention about it I will add my 2
I think that specialist should give XP for their pomotion class (we have mod component for that)
1 scientist +XP for genetic, clone units (reperest better abilities to build that kind of units)
2 engineers +XP for mechanized units - represent better abilities to developing and construction of them
3 spy - XP for criminlal units
So I think only settled great persons and buildings should give XP to units.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Good point. So the settled versions of the GPs correlating to the above should do these but not the assignable specialists themselves.
Agree with this 100%. Only GPP should give free XP to Units, and IMO it shouldn't stack for the same type of GP, as we already have loads of free XP in the mod.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I thought we were only talking about Great People.
I was very struck in Astral's let's play (episode 11) that the tactic of build-archers-cos-they-are-cheap-then-immediately upgrade-to-archers is effective but cheesy.
IMO costs (or upgrade costs) need to change to make this less attractive unless you are really rolling in cash - i.e. - at least one of:
1) AtlAtls should be more expensive (probably)
2) Archers should be cheaper (doubtful)
3) Upgrade costs for units should be higher. This is defined by UNIT_UPGRADE_COST_PER_PRODUCTION which is currently 1. Making it 2 would be far too much, so if we want to tweak that we need to change it to 100ths or something
IMO this case is mostly (1), but maybe we should consider a little bit of (3) also...?
IMO costs (or upgrade costs) need to change to make this less attractive unless you are really rolling in cash - i.e. - at least one of:
1) AtlAtls should be more expensive (probably)
2) Archers should be cheaper (doubtful)
3) Upgrade costs for units should be higher. This is defined by UNIT_UPGRADE_COST_PER_PRODUCTION which is currently 1. Making it 2 would be far too much, so if we want to tweak that we need to change it to 100ths or something
IMO this case is mostly (1), but maybe we should consider a little bit of (3) also...?
The unit production costs later in the game will be going up significantly soon (early eras will remain unaffected). However, I definitely agree with 1) and probably could go along with 3. In fact, the change to the define is so trivial I'll just do it myself.
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