strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
OK i'm a noob: explain why i should upgrade to the same str units? And if so which one for what reason(s)? see attached????
Especially this early in the game
Especially this early in the game
ls612's C2C Units
- Thread starter ls612
- Start date
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'm not entirely in agreement with how those mace line units are established but in play I'm finding it does make some sense... I'm thinking it will STOP making sense to even have them in the game once swords come into the mix though. I've yet to reach an era with swords so I can't say for sure.
However, at least at that stage depicted, the Stone Axemen are very good at tackling melee but if you're trying to take a city defended by any non-melee units, the Stone Macemen are much stronger.
Therefore, I build a couple Stone Axemen for the contingency of encountering melee along the way and one goes in each city to protect against melee units, though they don't do well defending against Stone Macemen since Stone Macemen have both some anti-melee and city attack and combined it slightly overwhelms the benefit vs melee the Stone Axemen have, but do protect very well against Neanderthals and Spiked Clubmen and are a good preparation for better axemen to come which are critical in properly defending a city.
Stone Macemen, however, are useless in any role other than invasion.
However, at least at that stage depicted, the Stone Axemen are very good at tackling melee but if you're trying to take a city defended by any non-melee units, the Stone Macemen are much stronger.
Therefore, I build a couple Stone Axemen for the contingency of encountering melee along the way and one goes in each city to protect against melee units, though they don't do well defending against Stone Macemen since Stone Macemen have both some anti-melee and city attack and combined it slightly overwhelms the benefit vs melee the Stone Axemen have, but do protect very well against Neanderthals and Spiked Clubmen and are a good preparation for better axemen to come which are critical in properly defending a city.
Stone Macemen, however, are useless in any role other than invasion.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
I guess what i am asking really about is the stats, will i lose my melee bonus i have already, or is that 25% more than i have currently etc stuff like that???
The Stone Axeman has a bigger bonus vs melee than the Spiked Clubber, and the Maceman has different (and potentially better) bonuses than both. I disagree personally on the Maceman implementation, but I don't really see a better way without adding another unit, and I'd like to avoid adding more early units for now.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well you also have to account for the unit promotions you have on your unit vs what a base spiked clubman would have. When you upgrade you should still retain the promotions you had before.
Spiked Clubman
- Strength 3
- +25% vs Melee
Stone Axeman
- Strength 3
- +50% vs Melee
Stone Maceman
- Strength 3
- +25% vs Melee
- +10% City Attack
So upgrading to a Stone Axeman would give you +25% more vs Melee. And upgrading to Stone Maceman would give you +10% City Attack. If you want to attack cities then go with the Maceman. If you want to attack melee units then go with the Axeman. And if you are short on money then don't upgrade at all and stick with the Spiked Clubman.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I think Trained Dogs should also be buildable if you have the building Kennels which can be built with subdued wolves. I suppose this means that the Kennels should also give Dog resource or will that cause problems?
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
OK these are all fine explanation, but what if the enemy AI is a few techs ahead of you and they have a (so called) Archery unit, how can you attack those, or whats the best option then, i see NO archery + anyplace (just incase?)
wolfensoul9
Warlord
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 255
OK these are all fine explanation, but what if the enemy AI is a few techs ahead of you and they have a (so called) Archery unit, how can you attack those, or whats the best option then, i see NO archery + anyplace (just incase?)
That's when you get back in the tech race, I assume, haha.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
OK these are all fine explanation, but what if the enemy AI is a few techs ahead of you and they have a (so called) Archery unit, how can you attack those, or whats the best option then, i see NO archery + anyplace (just incase?)
You will want to get the Atlatl. If you do not have this then its a numbers game or a tech race. In the numbers game you try to overwhelm them. However if your lucky you can always pick up a culture Wonder and get some culture units.
Good units to counter archery units are Atlatl/Javelineers and/or Mounted Units.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'd think this would be a bit imbalancing UNLESS access to a map resource, like deer perhaps, also adds a Canine Trainer building or something to that extent that also adds a Dog resource (in addition to Kennels doing so). Then training a Dog unit requires access to the Dog resource itself.
Having to catch a Wild Canine would make having access to canines tougher than having access to Horses. So we'd at least have to make one or more resources capable of adding access possible.
Better yet, I'd suggest this:
A new improvement accessed at Trapping: Wild Canine Traps (can be built on Deer and any other appropriate classic wolf or fox food resource). Gives the local city the ability to build the Canine Domestication building.
Additionally, even without the above noted improvement, Wolf & any other wild canine units can build the Canine Domestication building.
The Canine Domestication building gives the Canine Resource.
Access to the Canine Resource allows the construction of Kennels (which can also be built by any wild canine unit where the Canine Domestication building exists).
Kennels then provides access to building Canine units (which require access to the Canine Resource to train as well, in case you trade off your only one or lose the Canine Domestication building or something).
The Base Dog Breeder building, which requires access to the Canine Resource, also gives the Canine Resource and replaces the Canine Domestication building if its present. Thus eventually the Canine Domestication building evolves out of the picture as Canines are bred and spread out among the civilization with access.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Sorry, I meant that I thought that the recent change is wrong.I used to be able to convert my subdued wolves to Trained Dogs anywhere when I got Canine Domestication. Now I can't, I need a Dog Trainer. I am just saying that Kennels should be sufficient instead. In my view the other option is to remove the Kennels and have Subdued Wolves be able to build the Dog Trainer instead.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@ls612
Ok some stuff that was buried in the thread.
1. Bear Rider icon/button.
2. A bunch of production boosts from resources ...
3. Change the name of "Cannon" to "Heavy Cannon". Not sure why this keeps getting changed back.
4. And here is a New Unit for you after the freeze.
-----
Trench Cavalry
Graphic: Here
Icon: ?
Type: Mounted
Strength: 31
Movement: 2
Cost: ? (You know the new costs)
Req Tech: Trench Warfare AND Stirrup AND Calvary Tactics
Req Resource: Firearms AND Ammunition AND Horse
Req Building: Horse Trainer
Upgrades To: Autogyro OR Armored Car
Special Abilities
Notes: Use Cavalry as a Base.
-----
5. Change Calvary to Upgrade into Trench Calvary only.
Cavalry -> Trench Calvary -> Armored Car
Cavalry -> Trench Calvary -> Autogyro
6. Thunderbird made new code for Flank vs. You can see the code here.
Could you apply Flank vs Siege Weapons to all the Units that have like Flank Attack vs. Catapult, Trebuchet, etc? Units like ...
Thanks in Advance!
Ok some stuff that was buried in the thread.
1. Bear Rider icon/button.
2. A bunch of production boosts from resources ...
Spoiler :
3. Change the name of "Cannon" to "Heavy Cannon". Not sure why this keeps getting changed back.
4. And here is a New Unit for you after the freeze.
-----
Trench Cavalry
Graphic: Here
Icon: ?
Type: Mounted
Strength: 31
Movement: 2
Cost: ? (You know the new costs)
Req Tech: Trench Warfare AND Stirrup AND Calvary Tactics
Req Resource: Firearms AND Ammunition AND Horse
Req Building: Horse Trainer
Upgrades To: Autogyro OR Armored Car
Special Abilities
- Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
- Can Withdraw from Combat (30% Chance)
- +25% Grassland Attack
- +25% Plains Attack
- +25% Desert Attack
- -25% Jungle Attack
- -25% Forest Attack
- -25% Swamp Attack
- +50% vs Spearmen
- +50% vs Pikemen
- +50% vs Heavy Pikemen
- +50% vs Heavy Cannon
- +50% vs Light Artillery
- +50% vs Animal Units
- Flank Attack Against Catapult, Trebuchet, Bombard, Heavy Cannon, Light Artillery
- Starts with Commando, Trench I
Notes: Use Cavalry as a Base.
-----
5. Change Calvary to Upgrade into Trench Calvary only.
Cavalry -> Trench Calvary -> Armored Car
Cavalry -> Trench Calvary -> Autogyro
6. Thunderbird made new code for Flank vs. You can see the code here.
Could you apply Flank vs Siege Weapons to all the Units that have like Flank Attack vs. Catapult, Trebuchet, etc? Units like ...
Spoiler :
Thanks in Advance!
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
What about the Kennels? Do I get rid of them or have them produce the resource dog and allow them to build a new unit "untrained dog"?
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Your kennels are like a Barracks for dogs since it gives them XP. Dog Breeder doesn't give XP but gives a Dog resource. Since you can build a Dog Breeder without a map resource I think the Kennels should either stay the same or require a Dog resource. Meaning that to get Canine Units you need the Dog Breeder but to get Canine Units with some XP you need the Kennels. Thus you can have Kennels with no Dog Breeder but you cannot produce any canine units (unless you trade for Dog resource). Subdued Wolves in turn would just stay as Subdued Wolves since you are not breeding them to become dogs (assuming you did not build the Dog Breeder).
I would prefer if we kept the Cannon name the way it is. I think we need a default Cannon unit and then make a Heavy Cannon that's more powerful to compare it to. I think not having a regular Cannon is a bad thing as it leaves out a touchstone in the middle of the unit tree.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
The problem is we have many types of "Cannons".
- Bombard - Primitive Cannon (Good at City Attack/Bombarding)
- Great Bombard - Primitive Large Cannon (Good at City Attack/Bombarding)
- Motar - Large Cannon (Good at City Attack/Bombarding)
- Heavy Cannon - Large Cannon (Good at Attack/Bombarding)
- Falconet - Medium Cannon (Good vs Melee and Gunpowder)
- Culverin - Light Cannon (Good vs Siege Weapons)
- Ribauldequin - Multi-Barrlled Cannon (Good vs Melee/Archer/Gunpowder)
- Organ Gun - Advanced Multi-Barrlled Cannon (Good vs Melee/Archer/Mounted/Gunpowder)
Great Bombard -> Motar -> Light Artillery
Bombard -> Heavy Cannon -> Light Artillery
Bombard -> Falconet -> Light Artillery
Bombard -> Culverin -> Light Artillery
Bombard -> Ribauldequin -> Organ Gun -> Gatling Gun
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@ls612
Can you give any unit that requires Flintlock tech a +15% production boost with Flint resource?
Thanks!
Can you give any unit that requires Flintlock tech a +15% production boost with Flint resource?
Thanks!
@ls612
Can you give any unit that requires Flintlock tech a +15% production boost with Flint resource?
Thanks!
Sure.
So why can't we have just a Cannon unit? I am not convinced that having many different types is a reason we should exclude the base name. We do the same thing now with Axeman and Swordsman. We don't go Light Swordsman - Medium Swordsman - Heavy Swordsman, we just go Light Swordsman - Swordsman - Heavy Swordsman. I think the same logic should apply to Cannon units.
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