ls612's C2C Units

[Hydromancerx]

If we open up City Garrison to Tracked units, that would be fine. Motorized Infantry could still play a role as a unit between Modern and Mechanized, since Modern Infantry is available at Manufacturing + Automatic Weapons, Motorized is available at Manufacturing + Mechanized Warfare, and Mechanized is all the way at Robotics.

Good ideas. I think Assault Mech category should get the City Garrison promotion line. And putting Motorized Infantry in between Modern Infantry and Mechanized Infantry makes sense.

Either you or ls612 have my approval for changing those.

I
The upgrade path doesn't bother me. I like to think of it as the units turning "legit" or them being bribed into your regular forces.

mm interesting way of thinking about those. However I was trying to have it be analogous to to the Thief line which doesn't merge into other Infantry lines. This would just be "mounted" thieves.

 

[Flinx]

I hope this is the correct location.

Some weeks ago we talked about reducing recon units in strength, especially the Explorer.
I'd suggest to reduce the strength from 8 to 4 and would also like to see the adventurer slightly reduced, maybe 9 instead of 13.

The reason was already given: take an Explorer and put him on a forested hill near an enemy city.
Lean back and watch the AI suiciding its stacks.

 

[ls612]

@Hydro: Lots of things to respond to, let's see if I can do it without dropping dead of exhaustion.

1. On late pirates, and later conventional units in general, I think more or less that the Transhuman unitcombat lines can be extended into the Galactic, with bigger and better stats, at least to start. Later we might add new unit lines on terrestial maps for Galactic only, but that's a bit down the road.

2. I think that as long as the AI understands that just because that it can upgrade it's combat infantry to anti-air doesn't mean that it should, that seems fine.

3. I actually had a different idea about Transhuman Mech upgrade pathes. It would be;

3a. Power Armored Infantry (from now on PAI) should upgrade into a more advanced human infantry unit, ala Stormtroopers or something. Infantry upgrade lines should not merge into Mechanized upgrade lines until Galactic IMO

3b. Scout Mech seems fine in your suggestion.

3c. The Walker Mech can be the anti-armor and anti-mech unit, it could be an upgrade option from the Mechanized Infantry or Modern Armor units. That way we can make the split between Mechs and Tanks in the upgrade tree more defined.

3d. The AP Mech could just be a mech with a bonus vs. infantry.

3e. I was thinking of making the Assault Mech a limited national unit, and make it uber powerful, sorta like it is now. It could upgrade in the Galactic Era to more normal units.

4. I don't know where to find the graphics for the War Wagon type units, but I like the general concept of it being anti-melee, and weak to cav.

There, I survived. I will be devoting much of my modding time in the next few days to Gamespeed and balance changes, so we can have more time to discuss all of this.

Edit: The Highwayman is Vokarya's unit, so he should be the one to change it.

 

[strategyonly]

There, I survived. I will be devoting much of my modding time in the next few days to Gamespeed and balance changes, so we can have more time to discuss all of this.

Thx for doing a

 

[ls612]

@Hydro: I did all of the changes relating to Crime units and anti-air units. The exception is that I could not find the light anti-air gun in the code . It must be there somewhere, but it eludes me.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

I have some good news. I think i found a good model for the War Wagons. I jut have to re-texture them. So wish me luck! In the mean time I need you to add these.

-----

Early Chariot
Graphic: Here
Icon: ?
Type: Mounted
Strength: 4
Movement: 2
Cost: 30
Req Tech: Charioty
Req Building: Chariot Workshop
Req Resource: Horse
Upgrades To: Chariot OR Chariot Archer

Special Abilities

• Immune to First Chance Strikes
• Doesn't Receive Defense Bonuses
• Can Withdraw from Combat (25% Chance)
• -50% Jungle Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• +100% vs Melee

-----

Chariot Archer
Graphic: Here
Icon: ?
Type: Mounted
Strength: 4
Movement: 2
Cost: 50
Req Tech: Charioty AND Archery
Req Building: Chariot Workshop
Req Resource: Horse
Upgrades To: Horse Archer

Special Abilities

• 1 First Strike
• Immune to First Chance Strikes
• Doesn't Receive Defense Bonuses
• Can Withdraw from Combat (25% Chance)
• -50% Jungle Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• Can Perform Ranged Attacks
• Accuracy 50

-----

Chariot
Graphic: N/A
Icon: N/A
Type: Mounted
Strength: 6
Movement: 2
Cost: 60
Req Tech: Charioty AND Bronze Working
Req Building: Chariot Workshop
Req Resource: Horse
Upgrades To: War Wagon

Special Abilities

• Immune to First Chance Strikes
• Doesn't Receive Defense Bonuses
• Can Withdraw from Combat (25% Chance)
• -50% Jungle Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• +100% vs Melee

-----

War Chariot
Graphic: N/A
Icon: N/A
Type: Mounted
Strength: 7
Movement: 2
Cost: 60
Req Tech: Charioty AND Bronze Working
Req Building: Chariot Workshop
Req Resource: Horse AND Egyptian
Upgrades To: War Wagon

Special Abilities

• Immune to First Chance Strikes
• Doesn't Receive Defense Bonuses
• Can Withdraw from Combat (25% Chance)
• -50% Jungle Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• +100% vs Melee

-----

Hittite Chariot
Graphic: N/A
Icon: N/A
Type: Mounted
Strength: 6
Movement: 3
Cost: 60
Req Tech: Charioty AND Bronze Working
Req Building: Chariot Workshop
Req Resource: Horse AND Hittite
Upgrades To: War Wagon

Special Abilities

• Immune to First Chance Strikes
• Doesn't Receive Defense Bonuses
• Can Withdraw from Combat (25% Chance)
• -50% Jungle Attack
• -25% Forest Attack
• +100% vs Melee

-----

Many thanks in advance!

I will try to get the War Wagons up soon.

 

[Vokarya]

Good ideas. I think Assault Mech category should get the City Garrison promotion line. And putting Motorized Infantry in between Modern Infantry and Mechanized Infantry makes sense.

Either you or ls612 have my approval for changing those.

The original question was about the Tracked category of units, and letting them have City Garrison promotions. The Tracked category includes the Mechanized Infantry and a whole bunch of tank units. I don't know how Tanks with City Garrison would act because all of the tanks have "Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses". Do you want City Garrison on both Tracked and Assault Mechs? I don't have a problem with either.

mm interesting way of thinking about those. However I was trying to have it be analogous to to the Thief line which doesn't merge into other Infantry lines. This would just be "mounted" thieves.

The Thief line does eventually become Snipers. I don't think of snipers as crime units, mostly because you don't need special buildings for them. We still have Bandit Footpad - Musketman and Bandit Rider - Cuirassier upgrades, so if you get rid of those, then I'll adjust Highwayman to keep it consistent.

 

[Vokarya]

@Hydro: I did all of the changes relating to Crime units and anti-air units. The exception is that I could not find the light anti-air gun in the code . It must be there somewhere, but it eludes me.

Try the UNITCLASS_LIGHT_AA in the main Civ4UnitInfos.xml file. I found it by searching for TECH_AUTOMATIC_WEAPONS.

 

[strategyonly]

I dont really like the NEW Banditry btn's, that well, it took me around 1 minute to finally figure out the the HECK that black and white "stuff" was?? Either that or make the uniform more defined. But remember this back in those day, they didnt wear the black/white "prisoner" units (actually only in Renaissance Era did they start that), only prisoners did, plus people in the insane asylum. Just my thoughts.

One thing i do like is the stars, now thats a nice touch.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I dont really like the NEW Banditry btn's, that well, it took me around 1 minute to finally figure out the the HECK that black and white "stuff" was?? Either that or make the uniform more defined. But remember this back in those day, they didnt wear the black/white "prisoner" units (actually only in Renaissance Era did they start that), only prisoners did, plus people in the insane asylum. Just my thoughts.

One thing i do like is the stars, now thats a nice touch.

Its suppose to be like a stereotypical burglar.

 

[strategyonly]

Its suppose to be like a stereotypical burglar.

Now that picture is perfect, try this, instead of an all "blue" background just do the edges of it, and keep the person in the white, gives it more clarity.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Here are the graphics for the War Wagon and Siege Wagon. I used a Settler Wagon which apprently was also used for a Gypsy Wagon and War Wagon. However their War Wagon they had looked like the Gypsy Wagon. So I re-textured the original Settler Wagon. However here is the Art info stuff from their War Wagon. Which I hope works since it uses the Chariot stuff. I am not as clear about the XML stuff. Which is why I leave that stuff to you.

Graphics and Button/Icons are included in the attachment below.

Spoiler :

<UnitArtInfo>
<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_WAR_WAGON</Type>
<fScale>0.35</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>0.9</fInterfaceScale>
<NIF>Art/Units/WarWagon/warwagon.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Units/Chariot/Chariot.kfm</KFM>
<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/WarWagon/warwagon_FX.nif</SHADERNIF>
<ShadowDef>
<ShadowNIF>Art/Units/01_UnitShadows/ChariotShadow.nif</ShadowNIF>
<ShadowAttachNode>BIP Pelvis</ShadowAttachNode>
<fShadowScale>1.0</fShadowScale>
</ShadowDef>
<TrailDefinition>
<Texture>Art/Shared/wheeltread.dds</Texture>
<fWidth>1.0</fWidth>
<fLength>180.0</fLength>
<fTaper>0.0</fTaper>
<fFadeStartTime>0.2</fFadeStartTime>
<fFadeFalloff>0.35</fFadeFalloff>
</TrailDefinition>
<fBattleDistance>0.20</fBattleDistance>
<fRangedDeathTime>0.31</fRangedDeathTime>
<bSmoothMove>1</bSmoothMove>
<fAngleInterpRate>360.0</fAngleInterpRate>
<fExchangeAngle>-30.0</fExchangeAngle>
<bActAsRanged>0</bActAsRanged>
<TrainSound>AS2D_UNIT_BUILD_UNIT</TrainSound>
<AudioRunSounds>
<AudioRunTypeLoop>LOOPSTEP_WHEELS</AudioRunTypeLoop>
<AudioRunTypeEnd>ENDSTEP_WHEELS</AudioRunTypeEnd>
</AudioRunSounds>
</UnitArtInfo>

See this post for the War Wagon and Siege Wagon stats.

 

[strategyonly]

In the mean time I need you to add these.

-----

Early Chariot
Chariot Archer
Chariot
War Chariot
Hittite Chariot

I will try to get the War Wagons up soon.

Does anyone even use Chariots when they play? I am just curious, cause i have never built one in any game

 

[Hydromancerx]

Does anyone even use Chariots when they play? I am just curious, cause i have never built one in any game

That's why they were redone to make them more useful. The 100% vs Melee is way better than the 100% vs Axemen they use to have. Also having an upgrade chain of them will make them useful since only the Early Chariot will be a weak Strength 4. The normal Chariot has been moved up to Strength 6 so it can complete with the other units in the Bronze Age.

Also the Hittite Chariot was redone to be faster (speed 3) instead of cheaper to build. That is faster than most units which is very useful for moving across the map.

 

[strategyonly]

That's why they were redone to make them more useful. The 100% vs Melee is way better than the 100% vs Axemen they use to have. Also having an upgrade chain of them will make them useful since only the Early Chariot will be a weak Strength 4. The normal Chariot has been moved up to Strength 6 so it can complete with the other units in the Bronze Age.

Also the Hittite Chariot was redone to be faster (speed 3) instead of cheaper to build. That is faster than most units which is very useful for moving across the map.

You guys do know i ask some questions, i already know the answer to, correct?

That way some others know what is going on is all

 

[Hydromancerx]

Oh sorry.

 

[ls612]

You guys do know i ask some questions, i already know the answer to, correct?

That way some others know what is going on is all

That's a good strategy, it makes sure everyone is on the same page.

Try the UNITCLASS_LIGHT_AA in the main Civ4UnitInfos.xml file. I found it by searching for TECH_AUTOMATIC_WEAPONS.

Ahh, thanks. I can have problems with oddly named UNITCLASSes.

@Hydro: What thoughts do you have on my suggestions, specifically regarding the Mechs?

 

[Hydromancerx]

3. I actually had a different idea about Transhuman Mech upgrade pathes. It would be;

3a. Power Armored Infantry (from now on PAI) should upgrade into a more advanced human infantry unit, ala Stormtroopers or something. Infantry upgrade lines should not merge into Mechanized upgrade lines until Galactic IMO

3b. Scout Mech seems fine in your suggestion.

3c. The Walker Mech can be the anti-armor and anti-mech unit, it could be an upgrade option from the Mechanized Infantry or Modern Armor units. That way we can make the split between Mechs and Tanks in the upgrade tree more defined.

3d. The AP Mech could just be a mech with a bonus vs. infantry.

3e. I was thinking of making the Assault Mech a limited national unit, and make it uber powerful, sorta like it is now. It could upgrade in the Galactic Era to more normal units.

3a. Ok we agree.

3b. I like the Storm Trooper idea of compact exosuits. The split makes sense. I will post some more ideas on this later.

3c. Sounds reasonable. We will need to draw up more specifics on how it should work.

3d. But what would the AP Mech upgrade from?

3e. I don't like the idea of it being a National unit. We should save the Uber mech for the Robotic Imperial Guard unit and/or other culture units.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Can you please chnage the following units ...

Bandit Rider
Upgrades To: Highwayman

Highwayman
Upgrades To: Outlaw

Outlaw
Upgrades To: Mobster Car
Gold Per Turn: +5

Mobster Car
Notes: Change the name from "Deluxe Mobster Car" to just "Mobster Car".
Gold Per Turn: +5

Privateer
Upgrades To: Torpedo Boat

Something like this ...

Bandit Rider -> Highwayman -> Outlaw -> Mobster Car

Dragon Ship Pirate -> Barbary Corsair -> Privateer -> Torpedo Boat -> Uboat -> Assault Ship

@ls612
Here are some other stuff I need changed ...

Machine Gun
Upgrade To: Light Anti-Air Gun OR SAM Infantry
Notes: I feel this is a better fit to upgrade to rather than waiting for the Mechanized Infantry.

Vietcong
Upgrade To: Light Anti-Air Gun OR SAM Infantry
Notes: Its a Culture Unit of the Machine Gun so it needs to be changed too.

Light Anti-Air Gun
Strength: 35
Notes: It needs to be stronger if the Machine Gun upgrades to it.

Trench Infantry
Upgrades To: Infantry
Notes: It should not upgrade to the SAM Infantry since it comes so much later.

Modern Infantry
Upgrades To: Mechanized Infantry OR SAM Infantry
Notes: This is a more appropriate unit to upgrade into a SAM Infantry than Trench Infantry.

Thanks in Advance!

Please don't forget to chnage these.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Vokarya and/or ls612

Here is a better Highwayman icon/button since the current one is in black and white.