ls612's C2C Units

[strategyonly]

What's a tribal guardian (I'v been a bit out of the loop)? If this is standard for all barb cities isn't strength 12 rather high? What era does it first appear in?

I was just asking the GEM people about that also, i have no idea where the heck that came from?? And how they got it to start in every city when settled

 

[ls612]

What's a tribal guardian (I'v been a bit out of the loop)? If this is standard for all barb cities isn't strength 12 rather high? What era does it first appear in?

This sounds to me like something the AI would have problems handling, since they tend to suicide troops against defenders they can't beat. Are you seeing the AI taking over much less barb cities?

The Tribal guardian is a defense unit. It can not be built, but is given to your first city via a one-time Python script. It also can not move, so the AI should not be able to mishandle it. It is designed so that every civ can survive until the late Ancient Era, as before there was a lot of AI on AI civ killing in the Prehistoric Era. I don't think it should be unbalancing, assuming I coded everything correctly.

 

[Koshling]

The Tribal guardian is a defense unit. It can not be built, but is given to your first city via a one-time Python script. It also can not move, so the AI should not be able to mishandle it. It is designed so that every civ can survive until the late Ancient Era, as before there was a lot of AI on AI civ killing in the Prehistoric Era. I don't think it should be unbalancing, assuming I coded everything correctly.

I think 12 unbalances the prehistoric era pretty badly and will throw the AI for a loop. Main reason is that it's almost certainly a viable (and indeed probably optimal) strategy to not bother defending your city at all apart from with that auto-unit, which means that the AI will waste its early units on pointless defense instead of exploration, giving the human yet another advantage. If it's going to have out-of-era strength it'll need new AI writing to handle it because it modifies the optimal strategy too much (wars are essentially pointless too, but the AI won't know this, etc.). IMO we were just trying to solve AIs dying off to Neaderthal or attacks by a few stone throwers. A strength 3 or 4 unit should suffice for that purpose.

 

[ls612]

I think 12 unbalances the prehistoric era pretty badly and will throw the AI for a loop. Main reason is that it's almost certainly a viable (and indeed probably optimal) strategy to not bother defending your city at all apart from with that auto-unit, which means that the AI will waste its early units on pointless defense instead of exploration, giving the human yet another advantage. If it's going to have out-of-era strength it'll need new AI writing to handle it because it modifies the optimal strategy too much (wars are essentially pointless too, but the AI won't know this, etc.). IMO we were just trying to solve AIs dying off to Neaderthal or attacks by a few stone throwers. A strength 3 or 4 unit should suffice for that purpose.

I want it to be viable into the Ancient Era, so how about 8 instead?

 

[Koshling]

I want it to be viable into the Ancient Era, so how about 8 instead?

Can you make it promote with a tech (if necessary via Python) so that it starts at 3 or 4, but promotes to 8 in ancient?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think 12 unbalances the prehistoric era pretty badly and will throw the AI for a loop. Main reason is that it's almost certainly a viable (and indeed probably optimal) strategy to not bother defending your city at all apart from with that auto-unit, which means that the AI will waste its early units on pointless defense instead of exploration, giving the human yet another advantage. If it's going to have out-of-era strength it'll need new AI writing to handle it because it modifies the optimal strategy too much (wars are essentially pointless too, but the AI won't know this, etc.). IMO we were just trying to solve AIs dying off to Neaderthal or attacks by a few stone throwers. A strength 3 or 4 unit should suffice for that purpose.

Agreed. And if Barb cities are getting them, that would make the early part of the game extremely tough. I spend a good bit of resources already to keep my surrounding wildlands clear of new barbarian city infestations and with these guys defending barb cities, its gonna be nearly impossible! It also pretty much kills the early warfare blitz option, which is a whole strategy employable on small maps or smaller starting continents.

EDIT: also... you can make them a bit weaker. You'll soon have a 'iVSBarb' tag that gives units a bonus against non-animal barbarian units that can be utilized to get the power vs early barbarian marauders you're going for without making them a greatly imbalancing factor in early civ vs civ conflicts.

 

[ls612]

Agreed. And if Barb cities are getting them, that would make the early part of the game extremely tough. I spend a good bit of resources already to keep my surrounding wildlands clear of new barbarian city infestations and with these guys defending barb cities, its gonna be nearly impossible! It also pretty much kills the early warfare blitz option, which is a whole strategy employable on small maps or smaller starting continents.

Wait, barbarian cities are getting them?! That's a bug, which someone who knows Python should look into. I'll reduce the total strength to 2, with +200% City Defense, hopefully making things more balanced, but they should not be spawning for Barbs.

 

[AIAndy]

Wait, barbarian cities are getting them?! That's a bug, which someone who knows Python should look into. I'll reduce the total strength to 2, with +200% City Defense, hopefully making things more balanced, but they should not be spawning for Barbs.

You don't have any check in that code if the player building the city is the barbarian player so yes, it gives the defending unit to the first barbarian city as well. And if all barbarian cities are destroyed, then the next to spawn will get one again.

 

[ls612]

You don't have any check in that code if the player building the city is the barbarian player so yes, it gives the defending unit to the first barbarian city as well. And if all barbarian cities are destroyed, then the next to spawn will get one again.

Well, I didn't write that code, DH did (I can't code python). Could you please fix that, it is not intended to give Guardians to the Barbarians.

 

[AIAndy]

Well, I didn't write that code, DH did (I can't code python). Could you please fix that, it is not intended to give Guardians to the Barbarians.

Done.

 

[ls612]

Done.

Thanks. I also nerfed the Guardian to have 2 Str and +200% City Defense, for a grand total of 6 (before fortification). That should do for now, but if it needs further adjustment that can be done.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Here is an icon/button for the Urban Crossbowman.

 

[JosEPh_II]

This sounds to me like something the AI would have problems handling, since they tend to suicide troops against defenders they can't beat. Are you seeing the AI taking over much less barb cities?

No I'm the only one taking out Barb cities size 2 or better. Size 1 cities don't seem to get the Guardian until they reach size 2. So size 1 are just defended by Stone mace, Atl-Atl, and Stone Axe.

In fact in my current game by taking out several size 1 cities I've actually allowed an neighboring AI to encroach upon "my" territory. Should've left the barbs alone a bit longer I guess. And just wait till they become size 2.

JosEPh

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Here are some more Post-Apocalypse units. Please add just like you did for the Urban Crossbowman.

-----

Machete Warrior
Graphic: Here (Use Machete with Shield)
Icon: ?
Type: Melee
Strength: 15
Movement: 1
Cost: 110
Req Tech: Guerrilla Warfare AND Steel
Req Resource: Steel OR Iron
Upgrades To: Musketman

Special Abilities

• +20% City Attack

Notes: Use Heavy Swordsman as a Base.

-----

Wrench Warrior
Graphic: Here (Use Wrench)
Icon: ?
Type: Melee
Strength: 12
Movement: 1
Cost: 85
Req Tech: Guerrilla Warfare AND Steel
Req Resource: Steel OR Iron
Upgrades To: Musketman

Special Abilities

• +25% City Attack
• +25% vs Recon
• +25% vs Melee

Notes: Use Flailman as a Base.

-----

Crowbar Guard
Graphic: Here (Use Crowbar)
Icon: ?
Type: Melee
Strength: 11
Movement: 1
Cost: 70
Req Tech: Guerrilla Warfare AND Steel
Req Resource: Steel OR Iron
Upgrades To: City Guard

Special Abilities

• Can Only Defend
• Cannot Capture Enemy Cities or Units
• Helps Thwart Rival Spies
• 1 First Strike
• 50% Defense
• Starts with Policing I
• +2 Per Turn

Notes: Use Guard as a Base.

-----

Hatchet Warrior
Graphic: Here (Use Punk)
Icon: ?
Type: Melee
Strength: 15
Movement: 1
Cost: 110
Req Tech: Guerrilla Warfare AND Steel
Req Resource: Steel OR Iron
Upgrades To: Musketman

Special Abilities

• +50% vs Melee Units

Notes: Use Heavy Axeman as a Base.

-----

Thanks!

 

[strategyonly]

Here is a NEW Joan of Arc (Hero) figure replace if you like: thx

 

[ls612]

@Hydro: I can't download the Fury Road mod for the last unit, Mediafire and my computer don't get along. Can you find an alternate location for that mod please?

 

[ls612]

@Hydro:

If you check your SVN log, you will see that I can now make buttons! Could you please give me the base for the unit buttons, so that they will look slightly better than the ones I put on the SVN? Thanks.

I think that this means I can also reskin units, which will be useful for some ideas I have for new units.

 

[strategyonly]

@Hydro:

If you check your SVN log, you will see that I can now make buttons! Could you please give me the base for the unit buttons, so that they will look slightly better than the ones I put on the SVN? Thanks.

I think that this means I can also reskin units, which will be useful for some ideas I have for new units.

Do you have "blender" then, there is a tutorial on it?

 

[ls612]

Do you have "blender" then, there is a tutorial on it?

I have Blender, but I made the buttons in GIMP using the .dds plugin.

 

[strategyonly]

I have Blender, but I made the buttons in GIMP using the .dds plugin.

Yes i have that also, plus i use DTXBMP for my buttons, But i dont know how to do the transparency part