ls612's C2C Units

[Hydromancerx]

@intlidave

I think i will finish out the tanks ....

Electric tank (Thermobaric tank)
Now we’re in the future and an area of speculation. So ho could something like http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Mammoth_Mk._I come to be used? How about this:
The advancements in Electric reactive armor allow for efficient all-around protection of a combat vehicle, but require a large power plant. This in turn requires a large vehicle. The electric tank is that vehicle. Weighing in at 140 tons, it is a true behemoth of the 21st century battlefield. Armed with a pair of 120mm Electro-thermo-chemical cannons for dealing with enemy armor and 12 guided missiles to protect itself from enemy helicopters, there is very little this beast has to fear apart from being swarmed by enemy infantry.
Suggestions: Increase speed to 3, +25% vs tracked units, upgrades into Railgun tank, dreadnought unit

Sounds ok. I assume we just would use the same model as the Thermobaric tank right?

Railgun tank (new unit)
Ideally, this tank would use graphics of http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Mammoth_Mk._III with railguns upgrades.
Stats: Strength 180, Speed 3, +25% vs tracked units, upgrades into Dreadnought armor, dreadnought unit

that looks cool. I will see if a model can be made for it.

Stealth tank
Move into covert ops unit branch (the one with mobster car, etc...)

How do you mean? Like hidden nationality?

Plasma tank
Stats: Strength 160, Speed 4, +25% vs gunpowder units, +25% vs clone units, +25% vs helicopter units, 10% chance to intercept airplanes, upgrades into Grav tank (previously known as Heavy levitation tank), tracked unit, cannot see camo units

Sounds ok.

Grav tank (Heavy levitation tank)
Suggestions: Increase strength to 200, Increase speed to 5-6 (or whatever the norm for antigrav units will be), +25% vs gunpowder units, +25% vs clone units, +50% vs helicopter units, 25% chance to intercept airplanes, cannot see camo units

Hmm Grav instead of Levitation, sounds ok. I will see what the others think. Stats seems ok.

Dreadnought armor
Good as is

Yeah something you like.

Upgrade tree
Da Vinci tank -> Steam tank -> Light/Medium tank
Tsar tank -> Early tank/Land battleship
Early tank -> Light/Medium/Heavy tank
Land battleship -> Heavy tank/Super-Heavy tank
Super-Heavy tank -> Modern battle tank
Light tank -> Modern light tank -> Modern battle tank / IFV (armored car branch)
Medium/Heavy tank -> Main battle tank -> Modern battle tank ->Thermobaric tank/Electric tank
Thermobaric tank -> Plasma tank ->Grav tank
Electric tank -> Railgun tank -> Dreadnought armor

Hmm. I was going to complain about the Da Vinci Tank upgrade to the Steam Tank, but I suppose if you did not get Steampunk it would just upgrade into the Light/Medium tank anyways. So win win.

The rest look fine.

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I will do some more later.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@intlidave

An onward!

Artillery

Railway artillery
Strength 30
Range 2
Max 80% collateral damage to 8 units
Can bombard city defenses (-20% per turn)
Accuracy 70%
Speed 1
Would be good to confine it to railroads, but not sure if that is possible.
(see Big Bertha entry below)

Big Bertha
Remove this unit (it is pointless to have this, Railway artillery and normal artillery at the same time, especially since they all have nearly the same stats). Alternately increase Big Bertha’s stats as described above (except the bit about confining it to rails) and remove Railway artillery.

What about if Big Bertha was immobile? Would it balance out if Railway Artillery could move and is weaker but Big Bertha was stronger but could not move?

Early artillery (light artillery)
Change name
Lower speed to 1

Hmm weird. Yeah not sure why it was 2 in the first place.

Motorized artillery (new unit)
Speed 2
Strength 24
Other stats same as Early artillery
Uses M7 Priest graphics http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4756129
A step between artillery and mobile artillery.

Sounds cool and logical.

Mobile artillery
Increase speed to 3

Agreed.

Rocket artillery
Increase range to 3

Ok.

NLOS cannon
Increase speed to 4
Increase range to 3

Ok.

Hover artillery
Remove, or place under some x-punk. It is a silly unit.
http://www.anyclip.com/movies/sgt-bilko/presenting-the-hover-tank/

I disagree. I like it. Also its artillery on a hovercraft. Not like in your clip of the hover tank.

Grav artillery (Levitation artillery)
Increase speed to 6?

Sure i guess.

Walker artillery
Not a fan of either the graphics, or the concept. Remove this

I totally disagree. I love this unit.

City guard units

Police squad
Increase speed to 2, change unit model to display 2 cops, instead of cop and dog (easy to confuse with police dog unit)

You see a cop and a dog? I only see a single cop. Also why speed 2?

Police car
Increase speed to 3

Well all cars should be the same speed. If we are having them be speed 3 then other cars like the Armored Car and Mobster Car should be Speed 3 as well.

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Will post more later.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@intlidave

And it goes on ...

Planes and helicopters

Hot air balloon
Should not be able to attack other units
Lower speed to 2
Starts with Sentry I

Ok. And yeah they do move slow.

Blimp
Should not be able to attack other units
Starts with Sentry I

Why not?

Barrage balloon
Range 1
No bombardment abilities
Upgrades into Prop fighter

Hmm. I wonder what DH has to say about this.

BASIC PLANE TYPES
Interceptor: Not one pound for air to ground. Great for air superiority, bad for everything else.
Fighter: Jack of all trades.
CAS: Can kill ground units dead, but doesn't damage that many. Can intercept, but is bad at it.
Bomber: Bombardment workhorse
Note: Naval planes have shorter range than normal ones (by ~20%) and have lower strength (by ~5%).

note: It will be probably be necessary to alter the various prerequisite technologies for the planes as well.

Ok. I am listening.

Prop fighter (P51)
Change name to non-specific
Upgrades into Early jet fighterP59
Stats TBD

Good name. Much easier to remember too.

P59
Change name to Early jet fighter
Upgrades into F104 and F111
Stats TBD

Agreed as long as all of the words start in uppercase. ex. "Early Jet Fighter".

F111
Change name to Jet fighter
Upgrades into F16
Stats TBD

Sounds good.

F16
Change name to Modern fighter
Upgrades into F35
Stats TBD

Ok.

Scramjet
Change name to Hypersonic fighter
Upgrades into Orbital fighter
Stats TB

Ether name seem fine to me.

Orbital fighter
Stats TBD

Um ok.

F104
Change name to Jet interceptor
Upgrades into F15
Stats TBD

Eh, i suppose its better than F104.

F15
Change name to Modern interceptor
Upgrades into F22
Stats TBD-

Again sounds better than the current name.

F22
Change name to Stealth interceptor
Upgrades into Scramjet
Stats TBD

Same.

F4U
Change name to Prop naval fighter
Upgrades into F4 (based off P51)
Stats TBD

Ok.

F4
Change name to Jet naval fighter
Upgrades into F/A-18
Stats TBD (based off F104)

Kinda long, but ok.

F/A-18
Change name to Modern naval fighter
Upgrades into F35
Stats TBD (based off F16)

Yeah yeah I get the idea.

F14
Requires Culture(American)
Stats TBD (based off F15)

Um, hmm. We already have a culture unit for American. This should either be generalized or we should get rid of the Navy SEAL.

UNIT TREE
Barrage baloon -> Prop fighter
Ornithopter -> Early fighter -> Prop fighter -> Early jet fighter -> Jet fighter / Jet interceptor
Jet fighter -> Modern fighter -> Stealth fighter -> Hypersonic fighter
Jet interceptor -> Modern interceptor -> Stealth interceptor -> Hypersonic fighter
Hypersonic fighter -> Orbital fighter

Looks fine.

CAS

IL-2
Change name to Prop CAS
Change graphics to a B-25 http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15209
Can use carriers
Upgrades into A10
Stats TBD

I don't know enough to say.

A10
Change name to Jet CAS
Can use carriers
Upgrades into Hybrid gunship
Stats TBD

What's CAS mean? Is there a better term to use?

Upgrade tree
*Early fighter -> Prop CAS -> Jet CAS -> Hybrid gunship

Sure.

Bombers
General rules: TBD

Airship
Seems right

Bomber
Change name to Prop bomber
Stats seem right

B-52
Change name to Jet bomber
Stats TBD

Strategic bomber
Remove, duplicate unit

B-1
Change name to Supersonic bomber
Stats TBD (only tiny improvements over jet bomber, small chance to evade intercept)

Stealth bomber
Stats TBD (only tiny improvements over jet bomber, but good chance to evade intercept)

Orbital bomber
Stats TBD

All look ok. However you cannot work in the Strategic bomber somewhere?

Atomic powered bomber (new unit)
Like jet bomber, but with unlimited/near unlimited range
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_X-6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-119
Tu-95 model can be used until a better one comes up http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=4751641

Whoa. Look cool. Is this Atompunk or general unit?

UNIT TREE
*Airship -> Prop bomber -> Jet bomber -> Supersonic bomber -> Stealth bomber -> Orbital bomber
*Atomic powered bomber -> Stealth bomber

Ok.

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Will post more later.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@intlidave

Armored / scout car line
All vehicles in this line should have flank attack against all speed1 artillery/rams (log ram, battering ram, siege ram, catapult, trebuchet, great bombard, bombard, mortar, culverin, falconet, early artillery, artillery) and also against Railway artillery

I guess. Too bad it cannot just be against all siege.

War wheel
Can attack
Lower strength to 30
Upgrades into Motorcycle

I don't know. It don't allow them to be around for every long then. I think could co-exist along side the Motorcycle.

Motorcycle
Can attack
Speed 3
Lower strength to 34
Upgrades into Jeep

I don't know if these should be able to attack since they are scouting units.

Scout car (Jeep)
Change name to Scout car
Can attack
Speed 4
Lower strength to 34
Upgrades into Armored car

I disagree on the name change and the possibility for the scout units to attack.

Armored car
Strength 40
Speed 4
Change model to M8 (or Sd 221) http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=192679
Upgrades into Modern armored car (Humvee) and APC

No way I like the unit graphic. It was hard to find that graphic after Afforess removed the unit from RoM/AND. So yeah a big NO to the graphic change.

Modern armored car (Humvee)
Change name to Modern armored car
Speed 4
Upgrades into ACV

I like the old name. Speed chnage is fine I guess.

ACV
Speed 5
Upgrades into Scout mech and Grav scout (new unit)
Stats TBD

Ok.

Scout mech
Stats TBD

Alright. Moving on ...

Transport halftrack (new unit)
M3A1 halftrack graphics from http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=192679
Strength 36
Speed 3
Carries 2 Infantry
Upgrades into APC

Sounds cool if it works.

APC
Speed 4
Cannot engage aircraft

Ok.

IFV (Modern APC)
Strength 70
Speed 4
Amphibious
requires aluminum
upgrades into heavy IFV
carries 2 infantry units

I think the name should stay the same.

Heavy IFV (Hi-tech APC)
Uses the Namer graphics http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=291350 (the Aliens APC looks a little too “80s” for my taste)
Lower carry capacity to 2
Speed 4

Again the old name I would like to keep. I don't know about your new graphic either for this.

Grav transport
Stats TBD

Grav scout
TBD

Hmm. I will have to wait and see what you have in mind.

UNIT TREE
War wheel -> Motorcycle -> Scout car -> Armored car/Transport halftrack
Armored car -> Modern armored car -> ACV -> Scout mech/Grav scout
Transport halftrack -> APC -> IFV -> Heavy IFV -> Grav transport

Well first the names I disagree with. Then the War wheel should be at the same level as the motorcycle. Overall looks ok.

Robots and mechs

Clockwork golem
Increase strength to 20
Lower unit limit to 3

Stronger? We had complains they were too strong. Also I disagree about the amount.

Steam golem (new unit)
Unit limit 5
http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_Bot

I dislike the graphic. However I to agree that we should have a steampunk robot.

Diesel robot (new unit)
Unit limit 10
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Protectron_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)

Atomic robot (new unit)
Unit limit 15
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mister_Gutsy_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)

Liberty Prime (new unit)
Requires: Democracy, Atompunk
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Liberty_Prime

Yeah they could have their own robots. its just a matter of graphics.

Scout mech, Assault mech, walker mech, siege droid, power armored infantry, sentinel, walker mech, dolphin mech: keep
Anti-personnel mech, assault droid, walker artillery: lose (ugly, pointless, or both)
Advanced robot: Lose, unless a purpose for it can be found

Naw, I like all the mechs and robots. They all should stay to give some variety.

Infantry mech (power armored infantry)
Continuation of regular infantry line

Its not really a "mech" yet. So the old name should stay.

Siege droid
Keep, change name to siege mech

Either name works.

Sentinel
Place in city guard tree?

Yeah this level gets fuzzy. I am not sure.

Advanced robot
Purpose?

Where is this?

UNIT TREE
Clockwork golem -> Steam golem -> Diesel robot -> Atomic robot -> Infantry mech -> Assault mech/Siege mech -> ?
Scout car -> Halftrack -> APC -> IFV -> Heavy IFV -> Grav transport

Yeah, if we get such units made.

Ships
Submarines can attack without declaring war

Surface ships cannot, with the exception of pirate vessels (that upgrade into submarines)
TBD

Hmmm. I will have to see what the others think.

Infantry
Trackers
Cree tracker - should become unbuildable at some point
Swazi tracker - should become unbuildable at some point

Agreed.

Ski patrol

Change name to Jaeger
Finland national unit

We have a unit called a Jaeger which is an Austrian unit. Plus I like it as a general unit anyways.

Rifleman -> Trench infantry -> Infantry -> Modern infantry -> Exoskeleton infantry -> Infantry mech -> Assault mech
*Cyborg ->Special (mobile) infantry

*Paratrooper -> Modern paratrooper -> Special forces -> Special (mobile) infantry -> Super soldier
*Diggers -> Marine -> Modern marine -> Special forces *Genetic soldier -> Super soldier

I think ls612 has this all planned out already.

Paratroopers
Strength 40

Modern paratroopers
Strength 55

This won't make them too strong?

Special forces
Remove limit

They would not be very "special" then would they?

Chariots
Anti cavalry +50% bonus
Anti archer +25% bonus

In addition to their other stats or in their place? I think they are already very strong with the whole anti-melee stuff. Also I do not think they are very anti-cavalry at all.

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OMG! I made it to the end! *phew*

Thanks for doing all this. While not everything will be used I I hope a large chunk of it will. Thanks!

 

[intlidave]

@intlidave
Panzer for German culture

nitpick: Panzer is just German slang for tank (an abbreviation of Panzerkampfwagen - armored fighting vehicle). The tank modeled is called the Panther. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_tank

Steam tank
I don't know. I rather like the stats for this. it has kept me alive in one game where the AI was more powerful than me. It was the only thing keeping me from getting overrun.

It's available pretty early and superior to Early tank in every aspect. I don't think this should be so.

Land battleship
Could you show a picture?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-35
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_A1E1_Independent
Or the wholly insane (and fictional, that B&W photo is just three T-28 photoshopped together)
http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=4693

Light tank
...spearmen defeating tanks. Also I like the existing model.

At strength 40, it will still be safe from spearmen. It will be only a little bit stronger than early tank, but WW2 light tanks generally used weak guns and had armor that could be pierced by big rifles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39
(not) liking the model is matter of personal taste, but I'd still suggest changing it to a US one, since other units use (almost always) graphics of the US model

Panzer
Should it be faster than a Medium tank too?

No. The point of this unit is that it punches like a heavy, yet moves like a medium.

All Tanks should requires Oil Products OR Biofuel.

Seconded. At least until until the very advanced ones that are powered by fuel cells/internal fusion reactors/whatever...

Electric tank
I assume we just would use the same model as the Thermobaric tank right?

Right. BTW the new name is a reference to FCS, which is envisioned as an ‘all-electric’ vehicle (www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/4fcs97.pdf)

Stealth tank
How do you mean? Like hidden nationality?

Hidden nationality, can attack without declaring war, the whole shebang. The "bandit rider" line currently ends in the 1930s, and the stealth tank makes an excellent addition to it. There should definitely be something between it and the mobster car though. Maybe this http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ow-using-tanks/2011/06/06/AGacrALH_story.html

Grav tank
Grav instead of Levitation

Just a thought... Antigrav/Grav/Levitation... the important thing is to keep the naming consistent among other units on this platform, be they APCs, tanks, artillery, or something else.

Railway artillery/Big Bertha
What about if Big Bertha was immobile? Would it balance out if Railway Artillery could move and is weaker but Big Bertha was stronger but could not move?

Maybe... but how useful is immobile artillery? BTW some food for thought http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_gun

Hover artillery
Also its artillery on a hovercraft. Not like in your clip of the hover tank.

It has a cannon. Artillery cannons have HUGE recoil that will do bad things to a hovercraft unless it has some fancy handwavium based system that negates recoil (essentially the same as antigravity). A "reasonable" hover artillery unit should use rockets (little to no recoil) - http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Hover_Multiple_Launch_Rocket_System

Walker artillery
I love this unit.

Take everything I write about mechs with a grain of salt, I haven't spent much time thinking about them yet, but their current tree is sort of jumbled (everything upgrades into everything) and somewhat confusing (it's kinda hard to tell which mech is good at what).

Police squad
You see a cop and a dog? I only see a single cop. Also why speed 2?

Yep, will post a picture when I get home, BTW do you have "single unit grpahics" turned on? Speed 2, because Sheriff has it as well.

Police car
Well all cars should be the same speed. If we are having them be speed 3 then other cars like the Armored Car and Mobster Car should be Speed 3 as well.

That is a valid point. Maybe there could be a Police motorcycle (available when police car is now) with speed 3 and Police car (available a bit later) with speed 4? The car looks like a 70s police cruiser anyway.

Blimp
Why not?

Be able to attack other units? There already is an offensive dirigible (Airship) and IRL blimps are mostly just recon units anyway.

Barrage balloon

Barrage balloons are only used to defend against airstrikes, because they are tethered to ground with steel cables, which are hard to see when you're flying fast (and usually at night) so enemy planes fly into said cables and damage themselves. Essentially they are airborne traps.

F14

F-14 is rather unique. It is the only naval plane in the world that is capable of long range interception missions thanks to the extremely long range AIM-54 air-to-air missile that no other plane can use. The F-14 was replaced by F/A-18 in US Navy, but the Hornet is more of a multirole fighter that got assigned this role because of budget cuts (and because Soviets/Russians/Chinese decided that Carriers are better destroyed by swarms of long range hypersonic cruise missiles than attack planes)

What's CAS mean? Is there a better term to use?

Close Air Support. Other terms exist: Light Bomber, Assault Plane, Tank Hunter and so on. This branch of the tree is about ground attack planes that are designed for tactical bombing (bombing individual enemy units) rather than strategic bombing (bombing the general area enemy is in). These planes are designed to take off and land from small runways near the front and as such can operate from carriers (even though some are not certified form it, such as the A-10, which has successfully taken off from and landed on carriers, but was never adopted by US Navy, which chose the Harrier instead. Also some food for thought:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid

However you cannot work in the Strategic bomber somewhere?

Well, the entire branch are strategic bombers. And the unit called Strategic bomber uses the same graphics as B-52. There could be a small jet bomber, like the B-47 before the B-52, but that one would most likely be obsolete pretty soon. BTW: IRL the B-52 started life in 1950s and will continue service at least until 2045, since nothing decidedly better came along (XB-70 and B-1 offered virtually no improvement in performance, B-2s are prohibitively difficult to build and horrible nightmares to maintain, etc...)

Atomic powered bomber (new unit)
Is this Atompunk or general unit?

Definitely Atompunk

Will continue later

 

[Hydromancerx]

Maybe... but how useful is immobile artillery? BTW some food for thought http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_gun

Well it could defend the city with bombard. In fact I have been looking at immobile cannon type units from another mod (Realism Invictus I think) Would be kind of cool to have siege weapons that were specifically made for city defense rather than city attack. The various models are already made too (ex cannons, missile batteries, turrets, etc).

It has a cannon. Artillery cannons have HUGE recoil that will do bad things to a hovercraft unless it has some fancy handwavium based system that negates recoil (essentially the same as antigravity). A "reasonable" hover artillery unit should use rockets (little to no recoil) - http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Hover_Mult..._Rocket_System

Well on land they could deflate the cushion and just have it sit there to fire. In the water I am not sure if it would matter if it got pushed back.

Yep, will post a picture when I get home, BTW do you have "single unit grpahics" turned on? Speed 2, because Sheriff has it as well.

yes I do. Hmm. No unit except the canine units should have a dog unit. Could you list any other units that have dogs? Better off if we remove the dog from other units to prevent confusion on if they have a dog unit or not.

That is a valid point. Maybe there could be a Police motorcycle (available when police car is now) with speed 3 and Police car (available a bit later) with speed 4? The car looks like a 70s police cruiser anyway.

Possibly if i could make the unit. They take a lot of time to do even with just re-texturing. The Police Car was one of my re-textures BTW. I though it came out well for my first re-texured unit.

F-14 is rather unique. It is the only naval plane in the world that is capable of long range interception missions thanks to the extremely long range AIM-54 air-to-air missile that no other plane can use. The F-14 was replaced by F/A-18 in US Navy, but the Hornet is more of a multirole fighter that got assigned this role because of budget cuts (and because Soviets/Russians/Chinese decided that Carriers are better destroyed by swarms of long range hypersonic cruise missiles than attack planes)

Aside from the alt-timeline cultures I would like to keep one unique unit per culture. Can; be called like Naval Interception Jet or something?

Well, the entire branch are strategic bombers. And the unit called Strategic bomber uses the same graphics as B-52. There could be a small jet bomber, like the B-47 before the B-52, but that one would most likely be obsolete pretty soon. BTW: IRL the B-52 started life in 1950s and will continue service at least until 2045, since nothing decidedly better came along (XB-70 and B-1 offered virtually no improvement in performance, B-2s are prohibitively difficult to build and horrible nightmares to maintain, etc...)

Hmm. But game-wise where's it fit in? Do you think it could be in its own separate branch until say like orbital bombers or something?

 

[intlidave]

@Hydromancerx

I disagree on the name change and the possibility for the scout units to attack.

Motorcycle and jeep both quite obviously have a machine gun. That should give them an ability to attack. Also I'd place them into the role of fast attackers and flankers, instead of scouts (this role I'd give to hot air balloons and blimps).
The name change for Jeep I recommend because it's not a national unit and should not have a brand name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep . The unit should represent more than just US Jeeps, but also German Kubelwagons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubelwagon, Soviet/Russian UAZs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZ-67 and many other vehicles that fill the same role.

Armored car
a big NO to the graphic change.

As I said before. Most units have US graphics, this armored car looks like something that came out of WW1 Germany (I couldn't ID the exact type). All I'm saying is that it's inconsistent with the overall art style. I don't think it would be too much of a problem to include current graphics as some national unit.

(Humvee)
I like the old name.

Humvee is a pronunciation of HMMWV, which is a military designation of one specific vehicle. Hence the suggestions to rename it.

APC

First a question here: Why do APCs start with the March upgrade?
I also wondered whether there maybe should be two "land transport" lines.
APCs that carry more troops and IFVs that fight better.
That way you could have
Halftrack->APC->Modern APC http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7342339 -> Hi-tech APC
Modern light tank -> IFV (Bradley model currently used for Modern APC) -> Heavy IFV (Namer model). I'm just not sure if it would be possible to make the APCs and IFVs noticeably different from each other.

Clockwork golem

Strength 14 is kinda lacking for such an expensive unit. Heavy Axemen have Strength 13 and get +50% vs melee units. Not to mention that the Clockwork golem cannot get much in the way of promotions.

Steam golem

That was the only steampunk robot I could think of on short notice. Then I remembered that Warjacks from Warmachine http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery would make awesome units, but modeling one would take a lot of skill, time and effort.

Mechs

Didn't really go through this line yet (this is way down on the list), but IMO every mech should have a clearly defined role and it should be obvious which unit it is supposed to replace and which unit will replace the mech. Also I'm not a fan of some of the designs (purely a matter of personal taste). And the current mech unit tree where everything upgrades into near everything gives me a headache when I look at it.

Advanced robot
Where is this?

At the very end of the mech unit tree. It has a massive 290 strength, but IIRC no special abilities. The stats look unfinished and I'm not sure which role it is supposed to play.

Ships

I have some more ideas about them. Maybe I'll flesh them out over the weekend.

Submarines

Submarines seem like the obvious choice for covert attack units (if a ship is sunk by a submarine, who can tell which country the submarine belonged to?)

Jaeger
We have a unit called a Jaeger which is an Austrian unit. Plus I like it as a general unit anyways.

Oh... how about Suomi Jaeger then?

Paratroopers
Modern paratroopers
This won't make them too strong?

Should be weaker than they are now (IIRC normal paratroopers are S50 and modern are S58).

Special forces
They would not be very "special" then would they?

Russian Spetsnaz is over 10000 strong, US Army Green Beret also have at least 5000 members. Lack of a limit is maybe too much, but limiting them to 3 is the other extreme. Also, units that replace this one have no limit.

Chariots
In addition to their other stats or in their place? I think they are already very strong with the whole anti-melee stuff. Also I do not think they are very anti-cavalry at all.

This is an incomplete idea based upon the fact that chariots evolve into war wagons. Historically, war wagons were
-excellent against heavy cavalry (the soldiers fighting form them were standing higher than knights who tried charging them, and they were fighting from a much more stable platform)
-kinda good against archers and other missile troops (the wagons offered decent cover)
-near useless against melee infantry (they would just storm it like any other light field fortification)
So I wonder if chariots could be the anti-cavalry cavalry.

 

[intlidave]

Well it could defend the city with bombard. In fact I have been looking at immobile cannon type units from another mod (Realism Invictus I think) Would be kind of cool to have siege weapons that were specifically made for city defense rather than city attack. The various models are already made too (ex cannons, missile batteries, turrets, etc).

I guess this is one thing that will only become obvious with enough playtesting. BTW is it possible to allow a unit to move only on squares with railroad (a logical limitation for Railway artillery)?

Well on land they could deflate the cushion and just have it sit there to fire. In the water I am not sure if it would matter if it got pushed back.

Getting pushed around isn't the danger. Tipping over is.

yes I do. Hmm. No unit except the canine units should have a dog unit. Could you list any other units that have dogs? Better off if we remove the dog from other units to prevent confusion on if they have a dog unit or not.

Police squad was the only one I could find.

Possibly if i could make the unit. They take a lot of time to do even with just re-texturing. The Police Car was one of my re-textures BTW. I though it came out well for my first re-texured unit.

Another alternative is some rickety Ford-T lookalike police car that upgrades into the modern one.

Aside from the alt-timeline cultures I would like to keep one unique unit per culture. Can; be called like Naval Interception Jet or something?

Of course it can. How does Naval Interceptor sound?

Hmm. But game-wise where's it fit in? Do you think it could be in its own separate branch until say like orbital bombers or something?

[/QUOTE]
You are talking about the B-52, right? It could easily be non-upgradeable, but I don't think it's a good idea to have 3 near-identical bomber units available at the same time. I guess for the sake of game balance, it would be better to assume that the upgrades worked as intended, so the line can be B-52 -> B-1 -> B-2 -> future bombers

 

[ls612]

@Hydro and Initdave:

Woah, that is quite a list! I've done most of the changes on the first page, and will commit those soon. The exceptions were the Modern Medium Tank (broken download), and a few minor changes I disagreed with. I have though added the Dieselpunk Very Heavy Tank.

With regards to the TH era Unit balancing, i've already suggested some units (the Railgun Tank for one I've already statted out), and done much work on the upgrade chain and unit roles. Please leave that alone until I get finished with my plans for it. I do like the new Aircraft names for the most part, I'll see if I can change those.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@intlidave The real Da Vinci used musketmen not cannons, the graphics is the problem, I think.

In most nations Calvary upgraded to tanks then along came helicopters. I think they now upgrade to both.

Blimp

Should not be able to attack other units
Starts with Sentry I
​

Barrage balloon

Range 1
No bombardment abilities
Upgrades into Prop fighter​

Both sound good.

Edit except what is a "prop fighter"? - 'spose I need to get into a game to find out Scroll down on you document instead.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Strength 14 is kinda lacking for such an expensive unit. Heavy Axemen have Strength 13 and get +50% vs melee units. Not to mention that the Clockwork golem cannot get much in the way of promotions.

I think they were changed back to Melee units so they can get more promotions.

At the very end of the mech unit tree. It has a massive 290 strength, but IIRC no special abilities. The stats look unfinished and I'm not sure which role it is supposed to play.

Do you mean Hi-Tech Robot?

Didn't really go through this line yet (this is way down on the list), but IMO every mech should have a clearly defined role and it should be obvious which unit it is supposed to replace and which unit will replace the mech. Also I'm not a fan of some of the designs (purely a matter of personal taste). And the current mech unit tree where everything upgrades into near everything gives me a headache when I look at it.

That's ls612's doing. Before they did not upgrade or get upgraded to. They just were stand alone units.

I guess this is one thing that will only become obvious with enough playtesting. BTW is it possible to allow a unit to move only on squares with railroad (a logical limitation for Railway artillery)?

New code would need to be made. Which I have no idea if its possible.

Of course it can. How does Naval Interceptor sound?

Sounds good.

 

[ls612]

That's ls612's doing. Before they did not upgrade or get upgraded to. They just were stand alone units.

Yeah, I want the TH era to be as interlinked as possible in terms of Unit Upgrades. I apologize if it makes the upgrade tree look messy, the tree was not my creation.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I missed the hot air balloon

Hot air balloon

Should not be able to attack other units
Lower speed to 2
Starts with Sentry I​

Strongly disagree with the can't attack. Rest I agree with.

 

[intlidave]

@Hydro and Initdave:

Woah, that is quite a list! I've done most of the changes on the first page, and will commit those soon. The exceptions were the Modern Medium Tank (broken download), and a few minor changes I disagreed with. I have though added the Dieselpunk Very Heavy Tank.

With regards to the TH era Unit balancing, i've already suggested some units (the Railgun Tank for one I've already statted out), and done much work on the upgrade chain and unit roles. Please leave that alone until I get finished with my plans for it. I do like the new Aircraft names for the most part, I'll see if I can change those.

You mean Modern Light Tank, right? In that case, you can use this one
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10647

The real Da Vinci used musketmen not cannons, the graphics is the problem, I think.

Not according to these
http://www.flickr.com/photos/curiousexpeditions/962401842/
http://www.leonardodavincisinventions.com/war-machines/leonardo-da-vincis-tank/
http://hiddenunseen.blogspot.cz/2012/05/weird-tanks-in-history.html

I missed the hot air balloon
Strongly disagree with the can't attack. Rest I agree with.

Baloons weren't used in warfare for much besides scouting and occasional bombing attempts of very dubious effectiveness.
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Lighter_than_air/military_balloons_in_Europe/LTA4.htm

I think they were changed back to Melee units so they can get more promotions.

In that case it's OK.

Do you mean Hi-Tech Robot?

Yes, that one. Sorry about the confusion.

That's ls612's doing. Before they did not upgrade or get upgraded to. They just were stand alone units.

OK, let's see what his plans for future units are.

New code would need to be made. Which I have no idea if its possible.

I thought so.

Yeah, I want the TH era to be as interlinked as possible in terms of Unit Upgrades. I apologize if it makes the upgrade tree look messy, the tree was not my creation.

IMO each unit should have a clearly defined role (defender, attacker, good vs Infantry, jack-of-trades and so on). This makes it easy to decide what replaces what. When everything upgrades into everything, it can easily happen that the new unit is inferior to its predecessor in many areas.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I guess this is one thing that will only become obvious with enough playtesting. BTW is it possible to allow a unit to move only on squares with railroad (a logical limitation for Railway artillery)?

New code would need to be made. Which I have no idea if its possible.

Sure... probably not too tough either. But I'd have to take some time to research the code to see exactly how the railroad would be defined... might be a rather interesting overall tag (OnlyOnImprovementType) though I'm not sure if it'd be best to define a new 'Domain' and then establish that some improvements further define a tile's domain.

It'd be a project of its own.

 

[RPG]

Sure... probably not too tough either. But I'd have to take some time to research the code to see exactly how the railroad would be defined... might be a rather interesting overall tag (OnlyOnImprovementType) though I'm not sure if it'd be best to define a new 'Domain' and then establish that some improvements further define a tile's domain.

It'd be a project of its own.

This has been coded and released a few years back. I don't remember who released the original mod component but it can be found in avain's Quot Capita mod, iirc.

 

[Ostrogsky]

@ls612

Here is are stats for the Bear Rider and Bear Knight ...

-----

Bear Rider
Graphic: (See Attainment)
Icon: ?
Upgrades To: Bear Knight

Notes: Add +50% Forest Attack.

-----

Bear Knight [National Unit - 15 Allowed]
Graphic: Use the graphic currently used for the Bear Rider.
Icon: Use the icon currently used for the Bear Rider.
Type: Mounted
Strength: 12
Movement: 1
Cost: 100
Req Tech: Megafauna Domestication AND Armored Clavary
Req Resource: Iron
Req Building: Bear Trainer
Upgrades To: Autogyro OR Armored Car

Special Abilities

• This Unit is Tradable
• Immune to First Strikes
• Doesn't Receive Defensive Bonuses
• Can Withdraw Form Combat (20% Chance)
• +50% Forest Attack
• +50% vs Catapult
• +50% vs Trebuchet
• Flank Attack vs Catapult, Trebuchet

-----

Thanks!

With all the exotic animals I would delete riding a bear, yet it is as

animal trained alongside lions, panthers, etc. Bear fights standing on two legs and enters the

tree must look like a knight fighting a bear , even a chariot can not imagine,

This is not a hoofed animal, and can eat up a passenger ...

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Ostrogsky

First of all DH insisted we have them if we were going to have the other riders. I was first hesitant but then I realized, if you can train a bear to do other things why could you not train it as a mount? Especially if you eventually bred bears into a domesticated species like wolves to dogs.

Secondly these are to round out the linage since upgrading from bear Rider to Knight (on a horse) was kinda weird. At least now it upgrades into a machine instead of another animal.

Also a lame joke ... They all ride "bear"-back. Har har har.

 

[intlidave]

I started working on my suggestion list again and disabled access to it for the time being (to prevent people from commenting on half-finished sentences by accessing it while it's being edited)

Also I found a unit that works well as a Modern light tank
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14508

Technically it's modern light self-propelled amphibious artillery, but it's the closest thing to what the unit stands for I could find (until someone makes an M551 Sheridan model for Civ4).

Edit:
And then I found one that works even better
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10647

 

[strategyonly]

I believe you have the wrong str of the Imperial Guard (18) kind of VERY high when even the next tech after it only has units with 9,10 and 11??