Luck factor is too big in the beginning

[mzprox]

Who else agree or disagree with me?
Starting positions always were varied in every civ game, but in civ6 the difference could mean several difficulty levels.
For example in one game I met 5 city states first, I got production/faith/culture for free in an other game i found none but got boxed in very fast as i had 4 neighbors just on my doorsteps.
The barbarians sometimes non factor, in an other game i had the first barb scout reach my border in turn 3, a second arrived in turn 4. building my first unit, a scout took 9 turns (epic speed) and my warrior was sent for scouting, so in this game i had very hard time fending them off.

 

[Biz_]

yup

in civ6, map plays you

 

[ruhrgebietheld]

Yeah, I've noticed it too. I've come to realize that with this game, sometimes major negative things happen in the first 75-100 turns that completely change the course of the game for you in a negative way. Things like a civ declaring a surprise war on you and going at your second city at the exact time that a barbarian encampment spawns 2 tiles from your capital and starts pouring horsemen out immediately, forcing you to either let your second city get conquered or let your capital have all its tiles pillaged and cripple it for a good chunk of the game (this scenario happened to me last night). In the game's current form, sometimes simply quitting and starting a new game within the first 100 turns is the only way not to be totally screwed. Hope Firaxis fixes that.

 

[Zantetsuken]

I like some of the randomness, and sometimes others will have better starts, but as it stands, I definitely agree with this. A lot of single player games I'll just quit right off because, while my start is *technically* playable, I'm not a masochist. Oh what's that, full tundra spawn, no fresh water and 3 barbarian camps spam spawning horsemen? Yeah think I'm going to reroll. Wouldn't be *as* bad if they had a button to do so, or if the game at least kept my last played games settings in "create a game"

 

[Lord_Azazel]

Being someone that usually plays on too easy difficulty, I welcome the challenge when the barbs show up early. I really like the way they have gone with them this time around, I often played with raging barbs on in earlier civs just to have some action in the first 100 turns. I guess I agree that the randomness is more prevalent this time around, but I don't know if it is such a bad thing for single player, MP is of course a whole other deal where you want as equal terms as possible. But for single player, it's really just you against the computer, and if you realize the fact that you had a very difficult start, if you manage to pull through it will be ever so much more gratifying.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tavenier]

I agree. And what was said before, I really miss the start up with same settings button.

 

[Lord_Azazel]

I miss the world age setting, I want to play with even more mountains :/

 

[criZp]

I just turned barbarians off ofter having 2 encampments attack me at different angles while being at war with some other guy. You dont get notified of the scouts popping in and out either, thats annoying.

 

[killmeplease]

maybe you should adjust your play style
i start with a slinger and then alternate stuff with combat units
you should locate and destroy nearby camps asap, its quite easy early in the game if you have units. in the current game i destroyed one camp with warrior+slinger, and the second with another slinger and the third was the toughest it required all three units plus a spearman to clear.

 

[Zenstrive]

You can clear barbarian outposts over and over around the map with two warriors and an archer. They keep spawning in short time, even in the middle of TWO roads full of trader units

 

[Zantetsuken]

You can clear barbarian outposts over and over around the map with two warriors and an archer. They keep spawning in short time, even in the middle of TWO roads full of trader units

Lots of nice little culture bonuses for my Gorgo games, I usually try to leave one alive to culture farm (and faith farm if I have the God of War pantheon, though I usually go Religious Settlements or Fertility Rites when available)

 

[kampori]

Finding city states first, and finding goody huts make an incredible difference. As above, some games I've found like 5 city states first, each one a different type. That's free gold, culture, science, production, faith a turn. Meant I didn't have to build any districts for a hundred turns with absolutely no ill effects. I could just pump out settlers and builders and be happy.
Another game I found not a single CS first. And literally didn't find a goody hut until about turn 200. It was a miserable game.

And barbs plays a huge difference too. If you start near a barb camp on horses, forget about it. I've had to quit 3 good starts because of horsemen hordes. Felt like I was getting invaded my Mongolia.

Also spices seem to be the most OP luxury in game. Whenever I start on spices, I get a crazy good game. Their passive yields are usually 4F 2-3P 1-3G
I can grow fast and build fast with spice.

 

[DeutschDachs]

First game I had no issues whatsoever

Second game I rerolled twice because both times I had two barb scouts at my capital's borders by turn 4. They returned home and each encampment spawned 2 horsemen. So before I could build my first unit, a warrior, I was looking at a barbarian army of 4 horsemen, 2 spearmen, and two scouts by turn 8 or 9. Unfortunate

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I think the free envoy for meeting city states first is way too much. A scientific city state on turns 1-5 literally doubles your science. A cultural city-state doubles your culture. Meh. I think mechanics like this trivialize player decisions. If I can get all the benefit of building an early monument through dumb luck, that's not good.

One solution to this might be to have city-states still grant a free envoy, but that you need 2 envoys to get a bonus in the capital. That way there's still a benefit, but not so immediately overpowered.

Goody huts are of course another big source of randomness--fortunately I can turn those off in the startup menu. It's too bad that Civ shipped without the ability to turn off or tone down city states.

The barbarian luck is also huge, but I mind that much less. It's fun to deal with the occasional invading horde

 

[Lord_Azazel]

I think the free envoy for meeting city states first is way too much. A scientific city state on turns 1-5 literally doubles your science. A cultural city-state doubles your culture. Meh. I think mechanics like this trivialize player decisions. If I can get all the benefit of building an early monument through dumb luck, that's not good.

One solution to this might be to have city-states still grant a free envoy, but that you need 2 envoys to get a bonus in the capital. That way there's still a benefit, but not so immediately overpowered.

Goody huts are of course another big source of randomness--fortunately I can turn those off in the startup menu. It's too bad that Civ shipped without the ability to turn off or tone down city states.

The barbarian luck is also huge, but I mind that much less. It's fun to deal with the occasional invading horde

What if you got an extra free envoy the first time you sent an envoy to a city state you met first? So if you met a city state first, when you send them an envoy you get 2, and if you have the proper civic (or what they're called now) you get 3 envoys to a city state you met first when you send them the first envoy that counts as 2? Could also have a small gold boost or something similar to eliminating a barb camp as an instant reward as well.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

What if you got an extra free envoy the first time you sent an envoy to a city state you met first? So if you met a city state first, when you send them an envoy you get 2, and if you have the proper civic (or what they're called now) you get 3 envoys to a city state you met first when you send them the first envoy that counts as 2? Could also have a small gold boost or something similar to eliminating a barb camp as an instant reward as well.

Sounds good to me. I don't mind some long-term benefits, but the free envoy in the beginning is too much.

Also, has anyone noticed that the AI seems to be incredibly bad at meeting city-states that are right next to it? In my Russia game I shared a continent with America. I only built one scout for exploration, but I met all six city-states on our continent first, even though some of them were closer to him. I'm often finding goody huts apparently unnoticed near AI borders, too.

 

[mzprox]

I often find goody huts near to ai.
About city state bonuses: maybe their yield should be era dependent just like it was in civ5. So ancient/classical they wold give onyl 1 gold/faith whatever, thn from medieval it would rise to 2 and so on.

 

[Mustakrakish]

I just turned barbarians off ofter having 2 encampments attack me at different angles while being at war with some other guy. You dont get notified of the scouts popping in and out either, thats annoying.

But you DO get notified, there's a sound effect (which reminds me of DA:O for some reason, the whole first battle scene/mission in the wilds after the intro to be exact).

I miss the world age setting, I want to play with even more mountains :/

But there IS a world age setting. Open your eyes.

 

[Proteus]

...

But there IS a world age setting. Open your eyes.

Maybe he missed that you have to use the "Advanced Start Settings" in order to see it

 

[rpgalon]

My 2 biggest concerns are city states and the fact that you can spawn without fresh water. You should always have a river/lake in the capital.