[MOD] MagisterModmod

I don't know how to say this, but there is some problem with this mod, at least to my thinking.

Look I downloaded your latest rev. I played the Kuriotates, and as luck would have it Varn and the Malakim started next to me.

Varn founds the Empyrean on round 68. I just got through with animal husbandry, exploration, and calendar (started with agriculture).

You don't think this is a little crazy? Granted I don't know how he did it, but I do know that I saw a message about a great prophet being born right before I quit to desktop after seeing that he founded the Empyrean.

I tend to think he did it with a great person. Perhaps he got lucky with goody huts or lairs, but since he pretty much always gets it anyway, I think it is great people.

What's weird is that the Kuriotates should get a great person sooner then the Malakim. They are both philosophical, but a Kuriotate city tends to grow faster than most civs in the beginning. Usually it seems like they get a higher population faster than most other civs.

Maybe he found the Mirror of Heaven, if that event is in your mod.

But some of these civs get too much of a leg up on other ones in this mod. I think the Clan is the worst civ honestly. The Doviello are in the same boat, but at least they can crush most civs that start too close to them.

I know when I play, I think the Malakim are the strongest, then the Elohim with Einion. The Clan is awful, particularly with Sheelba. At least Jonas can spam a lot of settlers early. Sheelba doesn't seem to have anything going for her except that aggressive trait. The Clan is usually a non-factor by the time Organized would come into play for them.

Just as a sidenote I think reason the Clan does so badly is the move on the goblins. Unless you get fortunate enough to fight a wolf their 1 move is so poor that they have roughly have half the chance of finding a goody hut in the early game.

I've had some trouble with the Hippus too when you don't find horses. The base version where their palace supplies horses works out better for them than them getting stables in yours. I guess you can play the Hippus without horsemen, particularly with Tasunke but Rhoanna is kind of crippled without them.
 
Just wanted to add the Kuriotates get spirit and creation mana. Varn doesn't get any mana that should increase the birth rate of great people. So why does he get so many?

By the way, I stay in Pacifism with the kuriotates for most of the early game. Heck I stay in pacifism with them when I fight wars sometimes.

You don't have to take my word for it. Just play the Malakim (and Elohim) and see for yourself if they don't seem off compared to other civs as far as how easily they get great people and research things.
 
Just played another game with Kuriotates.

Okay, I'm going along, usual research calendar->exploration->animal husbandry, pacifism.

No great people.

Varn founds the Empyrean on round 67. I knew it was him when I saw the message and fired up world builder. Golden Leane is size 5. The Kuriotate city is size 9. The Mirror of Heaven was close to his city, but exactly how is this possible? I don't know if you still have to have Way of the Wise, but come on. He has to get Mysticism, and Philosophy before Way of the Wise. And that is with researching no techs for growth.

So how is he consistently able to do this so early? It doesn't make any sense to me. And he still would have to have researched agriculture and exploration because he had two workers building roads and farms.

Now if all he has to do is get a scout on the Mirror of Heaven to found the Empyrean (I don't think it works that way in base), you don't think that is a little unbalanced?

And if he isn't founding it that way, how is he doing it? Game after game. Heck Empyrean seems like it is founded before Leaves 50% of the time. Usually Runes is first, but Empyrean beats Leaves a lot of time.

Can you explain this to me?
 
Just played a Malakim game with Decius as leader.

The Malakim seem like a normal civ, instead of being in warp drive with Varn.

No one founded Empyrean, and I beelined Way of the Wise after the base techs (and Runes though I didn't found it).

Okay, so I get Way of the Wise, but then the Empyrean doesn't get founded? This is in rounds 150 or so.

What gives? That only works with Varn? Your leaders are way unbalanced. I notice some have three traits, others two. Unless you want to play around with arrogator why would anyone ever play Decius?
 
The Malakim palace grants mind mana (which boosts the research rate 3x as much as Creation mana does) and a free specialist slot if the Mirror of Heaven is within its city radius. Assigning that to be a Sage could give them an early research rate boost if they got lucky starting location. Varn's philosophical trait boosts research, and his Financial trait gives him more gold which can be devoted to research too.

I can't really recall why I gave Varn the financial trait. It fits the idea of desert merchants, but this holy man (well, holy Once-Elf) is no merchant. I already gave Kane the Financial trait to make him better represent the more secular Malakim. I'll probably remove that trait from Varn.

It still seems unlikely that he could found the religion so quickly through research though. He could have founded it through a disciple rescued from a lair, or gotten a free great prophet either from a lair or from the Amathaon constellation event.

A unit entering the Mirror of Heaven tile would not found The Empyrean. It could grant the Honor technology and a free great person, but only if the unit's owner already had The Empyrean as his state religion without knowing Honor yet. This is not limited to the Malakim at all. Any player who manages to adopt the religion (either after someone else founded it and spread it to their lands, or after himself founding it from a disciple rescued from a lair) before researching the founding tech can take advantage of it.



Way of the Wise should grant a free Lightbringer to any Malakim player, which can then be used to found the religion. The religion is only founded automatically if the leader has The Empyrean as his favorite religion. Decius is not really a religious man, and he has no favorite religion.

The normal founding of religions from a technology is handled in the XML/SDK. I can't do that for the Malakim founding the Empyrean at Way of the Wise or the Grigori founding The Children of the One at Arcane Lore. Frankly if it were just a non-Varn Malakim issue then I probably wouldn't do anything, but since the Children of the One cannot be founded by a later tech I think I'd better adjust the code so that those religions get founded even when they aren't a favorite religion.
 
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Magister, py.err log was empty...forgot to enable loggings after MNAI 2.4 installation, I'm trying to catch again
 
Overall problem: AI tends to mass troops and expand vastly in early game, without developing commerce (except Lanun), so they often stay backward even after turn 200. How about lower ancient tech cost or make cottage earlier?
 
I guess I missed this in some of the newer mods, but why are some of my units spontaneously joining the Cult of the Dragon? It doesn't exist in any of my cities, but the dragon capital is not far from my borders.
 
I guess I missed this in some of the newer mods, but why are some of my units spontaneously joining the Cult of the Dragon? It doesn't exist in any of my cities, but the dragon capital is not far from my borders.

In my modmod the Kuriotates world spell spreads the religion to random units (who don't already have a religion) and random cities, as well as moving the holy city to the caster's tile (or founding it if they manage to cast it before Acheron is created.)
 
How long does the world spell last?

It is a one time thing. (Technically it can be two times, since the Birthright Regained ritual restores the ability of a player to use a world spell again.) The religion will stay with the units until they die or are converted to another religion. (Priests can purchase the Evangelize promotion once you know Fanaticism. This allows the Evangelize to Units spell, which may change the religion of units nearby. The Council of Esus does not have access to such a spell, but any living unit whose owner has the Council of Esus state religion may spend gold to use he Initiate into Council of Esus ability that converts the unit itself.) The religion will stay in a city until it is razed or removed. A city with The Children of The One may automatically have other religions removed. The Purge of the unfaithful removes all religions except for your state religion from all of your cities except for their holy cities. The Inquisition spell (which requires the Inquisitor promotion, which priests may purchase once you know Religious Law) removes non-state religions from the caster's city (unless it is the holy city of that religion).

---

I haven't gotten a lot of feedback on the actual changes from my last version. What do you think of them?

Personally I'm thinking that the Ring of Warding merely Charming summons isn't all that strong. I'm leaning towards going back to my original idea of making it kill the summons.




It doesn't look like Tholal will release MNAI 2.41 in time for me to have another release based on it ready before midnight. My next release will thus not accurately fit the description "Magister Modmod 2012."

Should I try to rename this thread? or would it be better to make a new thread?
 
Personally I'm thinking that the Ring of Warding merely Charming summons isn't all that strong. I'm leaning towards going back to my original idea of making it kill the summons.

Too strong for 2nd tier spell. practically eliminates one of better aspects from the game. My idea: 50% chance - summon is repelled back from attack attempt.

"Magister Modmod" is sufficient.
 
Something must be wrong whit Varn/malakim How dose he found empiream that fast, I can barely research 2 techs and he founds it whit some plain farms and a city of 5 ppl.
And why is guardian of nature at feral bound? If I research that tech I already won and bloom, again after sorcery another game winning and expensive tech, fol was better on vanilla whit priests of leaves casting bloom and summon tigers.
Saverous must be moved up on tech tree, at 7 strength and 25% vs melee you won't stop him whit warriors on early game( I got beaten by lanum while playing grigori My 2 heroes were no mach 4 Saverous)
I am looking for the previous version is somebody knows if and where I can find it
 
How long does the world spell last?

It is a one time thing. (Technically it can be two times, since the Birthright Regained ritual restores the ability of a player to use a world spell again.) The religion will stay with the units until they die or are converted to another religion. (Priests can purchase the Evangelize promotion once you know Fanaticism. This allows the Evangelize to Units spell, which may change the religion of units nearby. The Council of Esus does not have access to such a spell, but any living unit whose owner has the Council of Esus state religion may spend gold to use he Initiate into Council of Esus ability that converts the unit itself.) The religion will stay in a city until it is razed or removed. A city with The Children of The One may automatically have other religions removed. The Purge of the unfaithful removes all religions except for your state religion from all of your cities except for their holy cities. The Inquisition spell (which requires the Inquisitor promotion, which priests may purchase once you know Religious Law) removes non-state religions from the caster's city (unless it is the holy city of that religion).

---

I haven't gotten a lot of feedback on the actual changes from my last version. What do you think of them?

Personally I'm thinking that the Ring of Warding merely Charming summons isn't all that strong. I'm leaning towards going back to my original idea of making it kill the summons.




It doesn't look like Tholal will release MNAI 2.41 in time for me to have another release based on it ready before midnight. My next release will thus not accurately fit the description "Magister Modmod 2012."

Should I try to rename this thread? or would it be better to make a new thread?



There are things I enjoy about your mod. But also things that are really frustrating. Like every 3-4 turns mid and high level units are defecting, sometimes to Dragons, sometimes to barbarians, sometimes just randomly running off. And no actual explanation for it. I have Confessors of the Order randomly becoming dragon fanatics. Sometimes they then become barbarians, sometimes they just run off. I've had both my high level Rangers run off as I moved them to turn into beastmasters. I've got level 6 and 7 wizards running off. I'm evengalizing all that I can. And using other spells. But I can't hit every unit I have every turn.


It's just really too much.

I'm not even winning this game, and I don't know if I can pull off a win in the long run. I'm catching up on score, but not on other things. To have the added frustration of constant desertions is really frustrating me.


I haven't encountered a Ring of Warding yet. I've only played a couple of times.

As I say, there are a lot of interesting things, and I appreciate all the work you've put into it. But.... And I'm not sure how to say this, I'm really not trying to be confrontational or insulting, but adding frustration and annoyance is no substitute for adding challenge and difficulty. And like those city rebellion elements that were in an earlier version, the rate at which units are deserting is at the level of frustration rather than challenge.

As I think I've said before, what I am looking for in a game is an AI that makes better decisions. For example, in my last game I was a couple of turns from conquest when I decided to try out the "impersonate other leader" spell. What that gave me was a view of what the AI was doing wrong. I had a stack, the AI taking over my stack, dispersed it, and let me individually kill a lot of strong units that should have been in the stack. It delayed a win by a dozen turns it took me to reassemble my stack when I reverted to my own civ. That's the kind of thing, and I have no idea how you would program it, that makes the AI weak to the human player. Another is that the AI spellcasts poorly. I had one battle between 2 AIs that I watched from a distance, and one would summon a dozen elementals, and then the elementals would run off it odd directions rather than attack the enemy. And other turns available spells that would be helpful are just not used.

As I say, I don't know how to change those things myself. So can offer no advice on the matter. But maybe that's the type of thing you and your fellow modders could look into. :dunno:
 
I'm kind of burnt on the whole thing now. I haven't played in a week or so. No desire to play again right now either.

Maybe it will be different in a few months.
 
I'm actually experiencing an opposite issue from what people have been complaining about. I'm rarely seeing rebellions, either in my own or in AI civilizations. I typically use standard size maps with 5 civilizations, and by mid-game I have 5 superpowers that tend to stagnate until someone starts a war. At that point there might be one or two one city states. (Incidentally, it also means that there's no room for the Mercurians or Infernal when they arrive.)

In the past, it seemed like there was much more balkanization of countries, or civil wars with lots of revolts. Is there any way to bump up the chance of revolution? Even countries running really bad civics don't seem to have many issues.
 
I think the above poster was complaining about the Cult of the Dragon.

Make sure the Kuriotates are one of the civs in your game, and if it lasts long enough they will probably found it, and you'll see what he is talking about.

Or play the Kuriotates and send a Dragon Fanatic in to evangelize. One thing I don't understand is why any civ but the Kuriotates builds Dragon Fanatics. I think I've seen the Elohim build them, even though they don't have a dragon unit.
 
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