1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Make sense out of this, please!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by gozpel, Jun 16, 2011.

  1. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    4,170
    Location:
    Australia
    I start off in a nice coastal area with cows and river as Askia. Emperor level and standard fractal.

    Warrior and then scout finds a lot of empty lands around us, not until turn 20 or so we find Caesar, who already COVET my lands. Mate, I checked the terrain and his capitol was 23-24 tiles away and due to the mapdesign, I know he hasn't even seen my lands yet. It's a snaky fractal thing and my warrior walked west and didn't encounter any scouts.

    So, why are the Romans covetting my lands, when they don't even know where my capitol is located?

    Next, my scout finds an isthmus to the south, but a mountain is blocking the path. (it will take a few turns, but I build a workboat at some stage and send it there, maybe 30 turns later)

    The boat meet Ramesses, he COVET my lands...? FFS - for friendly speaking ;), why on earth would he covet something he can 't get before optics? Dimwit!

    The boat finds Lizzy, who immediately decide I want to win the game in the same way as she want to? Yeah right, I have one city and currently building a worker. Maybe NC put her into this decision, but how would she know I even built anything?

    Same time, meet France north, finally a friendly civ. Open border and sell lux to them, they denounce Rome and I follow, they say it's great to have the same ideals.

    Then they DOW me 5-6 turns later.

    This is just one game where I got all confusion added in the same game, no save though. I'm just not clear about things like covet and friendship and winning the game, before turn 60?

    So anyone that can clear this muddle up for me, please speak up :)
     
  2. ratatosk

    ratatosk Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    When you seek world domination you covet everybodys lands :p
     
  3. RD-BH

    RD-BH Human

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    818
    Location:
    Formerly: Missouri, USA
    One of their cities has asked for a resource within your borders.
     
  4. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    4,170
    Location:
    Australia
    That doesn't answer WHY Caesar would covet lands he never even set his eyes on?
     
  5. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    4,170
    Location:
    Australia
    And if I have no resources, no Calendar and so on, HOW do they know what I have or not in the future?

    Ok, I might have wine, but how can any civ that can't reach me atm, decide they want what is ours, before I even know what is mine? Before Calendar.

    So Fupped Up!

    SFU!
     
  6. RD-BH

    RD-BH Human

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    818
    Location:
    Formerly: Missouri, USA
    They cheat.
     
  7. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    4,170
    Location:
    Australia
    That explains it, radically!

    Thank you for your input.
     
  8. Montov

    Montov Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    707
    It happens if they plan on domination. AI tend to make up its mind early on with its preferred victory. But it doesn't happen always so there is a lot of difference each game, which is interesting and forces you to act differently.
     
  9. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    4,170
    Location:
    Australia
    I can buy that Rome has a thing for it, but they don't even know my lands, so why covet what you don't even know?

    That's my point!
     
  10. apocalypse105

    apocalypse105 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,704

    Because the AI is programmed to win ignore the diplomacy just keep in mind that the AI wants to win and will do everything to accomplice this its like c&c AI

    Thats why the diplomacy is so wierd in civilization 5 the AI wants to win so if you want to have a game with diplomacy better choose a game withouth "the AI typ that wants to win".

    I still dont get it why they choose this typ AI for the game if anybody could explain this to me...

    Just accept it....
     
  11. Montov

    Montov Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    707
    They have met you, so the assumption that you have land is a valid one.
    And people get more excited about stuff they can't see.

    :p
     
  12. ColinTH

    ColinTH Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    441
    Location:
    Bedford
    There is no doubt in my mind the AI civs know where all the resources are from the outset, it would be the same as you playing with a map you put together yourself!
    This is just an opinion, and not a proven fact. They are so bad at any form of combat they have to have an advantage somewhere!
     
  13. Txurce

    Txurce Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    6,983
    Location:
    Venice, California
    You're being too literal about a program with a limited number of pre-written responses.
     
  14. Jaybe

    Jaybe Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2001
    Messages:
    2,237
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Exactly.
    They're just letting you know what they think of you. Be THANKFUL that they are being honest about it! Would you rather they be DECEPTIVE, expressing they desire friendly relations when they do NOT??

    Sometimes they ARE deceptive, for those that don't know already.
     
  15. GenjiKhan

    GenjiKhan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,117
    Everybody knows ai cheat in this game. they are probably jealous,because you settle your capital in an area with many high value luxury resources around.
     
  16. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,457
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    The AI is programmed to better take advantage of its high level bonuses at the very beginning since the 275 patch. I've had games where everyone covets my lands immediately, and sometimes I'll meet 4 civs by turn 20 and all are friendly. It's just a combo of the predisposition of the rival major civs plus the random +/- factors, combined with the rival civ's proximity to your capital. Generally speaking, even gandhi will hate you if he's 8 tiles away from your capital, while alex or monty might go after you from the other side of the world.

    If you don't want them DOW'ing you or coveting your lands then build more military units at the start to get your military strength more in line.
     
  17. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    4,170
    Location:
    Australia
    Never saw it that way! :) I thought they were ACTUALLY doing what they said, so they fooled me good.

    But at least Napoleon, my only friend, showed me how bad it is to trust these programs and algoritms. He declared war on me after making trade-deals and after responses that should favour my civ.

    So I just ignore them all from now on, I guess.
     
  18. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    2,288
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    rather than ignore them all, try to punish their behavior - though they won't learn.

    Augustus DoW'd me on turn 22, 5 turns after meeting me, with me knowing no other civ and he doesn't know where my lands even are. he attacks my warrior with a scout, then i move my warrior to a hill, and he send 2 scouts and a warrior. from barb exp + first scout, i level to forested hill defense and he throws his army away and offers peace if i give him all my gold, my 4 horses and my 1 insence. he couldn't have known i had it because it wasn't improved until mid-war.

    Each time he asked for peace i said no, and i diplo'd everybody against him and he kept building units to attack me while i got farther ahead. he eventually had 4 cities total and got DoW'd by genghis. I immediately sent in my troops and let genghis act as fodder.

    In the end, Ceaser paid for his stupid play mistake and kept commiting unit after unit after unit against me, and he got wiped by a different opponent before i swept in for 3 puppets (rome, cumae, Tours which i sold to france). Then mongol DoW'd france, and he asked me to join so i captured tours and sold it to Khan. Lastly, when khan had his army busy in french homeland, i betrayed him and took his core cities leaving him his french expansion.


    Lession i learned is to target the aggressive AI in the same way you would handle a MP game. Just expect it and try to make a plan of defense. if they build units to send your way they arent building settlers to put next to your city and if they spend gold on units they arent buying RA's.
     
  19. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2002
    Messages:
    4,170
    Location:
    Australia
    Yep thadian, I've seen this many times, but I never thought the "feeling against you" was just scripted. I really thought those words had a meaning.

    It doesn't make sense anyways, I have had AI's many times that covet my lands in the beginning and a bit later they turn friendly. They don't attack me when they do attack, they go for someone else...most of the times. And sometimes I have these guarded guys that stay guarded forever, I never done anything to them?

    So as CS can be irrational, I believe the AI of my contenders are always irrational.

    Not that helps me alot, to figure out who loves me or who doesn't.
     
  20. Vladesch

    Vladesch Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    Just treat diplomacy as if the AI will act completely randomly. I gave up playing the diplomacy game a long time ago, and just play my own strategy.
     

Share This Page