Making the AI grow...

[Simon Darkshade]

What is it about the AI that it refuses to build large cities? Is it just my experience, or are sewer systems anathema to the AI in general.
This occurs both for expansionist and perfectionist civs.
Can it be fixed by lowering the cost of sewer systems, or does it have to involve altering the civ attributes (which don't seem to have much of an effect, except making them build aqueducts...)

 

[ArmOrAttAk]

What difficulty are you playing on? The cpu never has that problem on diety. Some cities stay small because of where they're founded makes for slow growth, but the ones in good spots always grow fine. Maybe they haven't discovered medicine yet...

 

[duke o' york]

Don't assume that Simon is a newbie to this - he is well versed in deity and I think you underestimate how large he wants the AI cities to be. He doesn't mean to size 12 or anything - but really huge cities like the human player builds of size 20 and above. It is easy for the human to get cities of this size - even without the Pyramids or using the food caravan trick - so why can the AI never build big cities?

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by duke o' york

Don't assume that Simon is a newbie to this - he is well versed in deity and I think you underestimate how large he wants the AI cities to be. He doesn't mean to size 12 or anything - but really huge cities like the human player builds of size 20 and above. It is easy for the human to get cities of this size - even without the Pyramids or using the food caravan trick - so why can the AI never build big cities?

Exactly, my friend. I have run tests, with a civilized perfectionist civ, on a pre made map in a position where they could grow up to 36 without even using the airbase trick (not that I've ever seen the AI do that)
Furthermore, on the 1st turn of the 'scenario' they abandon democracy, and go fundamentalist. When you are an old and jaded player, you want to have the poor little AI grow up a bit, just for a challenge.

 

[Old n Slow]

Maybe you're playing too hard -- I've seen the AI grow cities to 20+ in a number of cases (but never 30+). Usually the situations are at the King or Prince level on a large map. In my case, I've kept to myself & had only a moderate number of units.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Well, if you're desperate for larger AI cities, you can always edit the rules.txt file and change the "maximum" population for cities without aquaducts and sewer systems to, say, 24 and 32 respectively. (Of course, this will effect your cities also.) Also in rule.txt, you can change the "value" of Sanitation such that the computer will try and research that before other techs; it might actually then build them (especially if there is any correlation between the assigned value of a given tech and the computer "build" preferences).

 

[MajorGeneral2]

I agree that you may be playing to aggressively. It's hard for a city to grow with legions of tanks knocking at the door. Give the AI a head start, and then you'll get a greater challenge. But perhaps it's just another one for the "AI Stupidities" list.

 

[ferenginar]

I think the reason that the AI cities do not grow really big is that they do not make use of the WLTP days. Growth is therefore restricted to filling the box with food and is consequently much slower growth that the human players city.

However, I have seen an AI city at 32.

Ferenginar

 

[Simon Darkshade]

I have in my time seen the AI grow over 12, but only rarely. And have considered the rules altering outlined by Andu.

As to playing too agressively with "legions of tanks" knocking at the door... One does not employ legions of tanks ever, and the AI have their own nice continents to develop on, only ever getting visited by caravans, and diplomats on recruiting drives for nice units.
They, on the other hand, can't get enough of violating my borders, and buzzing my sentried naval forces with their pathetic stuff. It gets tedious, ordering 15 units on a carrier to go back to sleep every turn...

 

[Zwelgje]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
They, on the other hand, can't get enough of violating my borders, and buzzing my sentried naval forces with their pathetic stuff. It gets tedious, ordering 15 units on a carrier to go back to sleep every turn...

And then after the 10th time you're fed up with that and you attack and then...the senate overrules! When I'm fed up I'm fed up and nobody interferes, so I go into anarchy and kill those stupid ships.

 

[ArmOrAttAk]

All I know is the computer players consistently grow beyond size 20 over here. Except the mongols.

 

[oryx]

I think another thing that limits AI city growth is that the AI likes to build lots of engineers and settlers. The food they use slows city growth, not to mention the population reduction that happens when the settler is created.

 

[duke o' york]

But where the heck are all these settlers? If this was the case then every AI island would be perfectly developed and covered in cities, but this is never the case. Besides, a settler only requires 1 food per turn. Each AI city would need about 5 settlers to stop them growing. And they don't build cities all the time either. It can't be settlers, so what the heck do they do with all the food? This is especially puzzling when you consider that the AI will set up your workers so that they produce the most food possible each turn. It can't be that they've switched all the workers onto mountains.

 

[Old n Slow]

If you're at peace, why not send a few engineers over & shift to automate in his territory -- also give the ai the eng. & refrig. techs. The more peaceful, anal civs will develop awy....